Yet another fine effort by Ty Dunne...re: the D

[Thurman#1]

"One thing I know about Rex Ryan is he knows how to coach defense," Scott said. "I’m confident saying he’s one of the best defensive minds in the game today.

 

Is that why his scoring defenses in NY were ranked 20th, 20th, 19th, and 24th from 2011 thru 2014? ... because he's one of the best defensive minds in the game today?

 

This year's D certainly didn't reveal that.

 

Just curious.

 

It's also possible that a D that is so complex that only an extreme minority of players can actually make sense of it and then ebonics it down to field level may not be all that practical in todays NFL with its revolving door free agency turnstyle system where it's difficult to keep a defensive roster together for more than 2-3 seasons.

 

Seems like the time the players will pick it up they'll have one foot out the door.

 

As they say though, what Dunne says sounds good on paper and without much additional thought.

 

 

 

Scoring defense is a lot more about the whole team than defense by yards.

 

When your offense is in and your QB throws a pick-six, how does that make your defense worse? Answer: in scoring defense, it just does, as if by magic. Your RB fumbles and the other team recovers on your 16 yard-line. The defense sacks the QB twice and stops a draw play cold and their field-goal kicker nails a 55-yarder. By scoring defense, your defense did something bad there, allowing three points. The STs allow a punt return for a TD. In scoring defense, your defense is on the hook for that.

 

A crappy offense and crappy STs put the defense in bad field position, which makes it look better or worse in scoring defense. Not that defense by yards is perfect, but at least it isolates the defense much better, and the Jets' offenses were not good in the Ryan years.

 

But in yards, the Jets defense was 16th the year before Ryan arrived. His first year, they ranked 1st, 3rd, 5th, 8th, 11th and 6th. Fair enough if you want to question the trends there, but top eleven every single year really is very good.

[26CornerBlitz]

not buying that, Broncos beat the crap out of Brady with pressure even though drop many back into coverage. Wade is just smarter than Rex

IIRC the Broncos used a lot of 3 and 4 man rushes with tight coverage.

[Chandler#81]

"One thing I know about Rex Ryan is he knows how to coach defense," Scott said. "I’m confident saying he’s one of the best defensive minds in the game today.

 

Is that why his scoring defenses in NY were ranked 20th, 20th, 19th, and 24th from 2011 thru 2014? ... because he's one of the best defensive minds in the game today?

 

This year's D certainly didn't reveal that.

 

Just curious.

 

 

...

Cherry pick much? Rex's OFFENSE delivered 50 pts to us last season. Vick & Geno are trademark turnover machines and have been throughout their careers.

I don't put much faith in anything Bart Scott says and Cowher is foolish to think 'a couple more years' is a contemporary model in the NFL. Still, Dunne is a refreshing change in sports journalism in that he uses 'expert insight' to relay his stories vs the single-minded, agenda driven writers like our 'beloved' Jerry Sullivan.

[Beerball]

IIRC the Broncos used a lot of 3 and 4 man rushes with tight coverage.

so what you're saying is "they adapted." Novel approach.

[The Big Cat]

 

The Broncos were getting to Brady with 3/4 man rushes.

 

Their guys beat the **** out of the Patriots O-Line upfront. Something our D-Line did a lot of to opponents in 2014.

 

As someone already mentioned, it is mind boggling that our defense went from 2nd to 31st in sacks with the same personnel.

 

Yeah, a lot of fans were stupefied had how completely incapable Mario Williams became at beating the guy in front of him.

[Mr. WEO]

 

 

 

Actually, I thought the part about not having a Leonhard there was right on.

 

Who did Rex bring with him from the Jets on defense? Leonhard was the defensive signal caller and from all accounts an extremely bright guy who put everyone in the right positions.

 

I mean, they had Enemkpali, but he wasn't there from the beginning helping everyone get used to the system, and he wasn't in the center of things anyway, at DE.

 

If your entire coaching staff, completely and intimately familiar your defensive scheme, cannot instill that defense into the minds of a talented bunch of pro athletes without the aid of a bright journeyman Safety....then you and your staff are not good coaches.

 

Pretty simple.

[Marty McFly]

The spots that don't change are the reality of the stats and outcomes. The defense Rex coached last year took a precipitous drop from the previous year with much of the same roster. There is no basis to argue that his defense was a success when it wasn't. What you are trying to do is rationalize a deterioration in performance when there isn't a good reason for doing so.

 

If you want to believe that Rex did a good job with the defense then go ahead and believe it. I'm not accepting your interpretation of what happened this past season, I trust my eyes and the stats more than I trust what you are advocating. The record for last season is in the books. My position on how Rex coached the defense will not change because the record/performance is established.

 

Go ahead and keep making excuses. Go ahead and keep creating new rationals for what happened. That's your prerogative. I'm not buying what you are peddling and never will.

Theres truth in both arguments. We lost Spikes and Searcy which were great in Shartzenators scheme. Spikes was a veteran run stuffing 2 down MLB. Searcy was a genuine Saftey and a good one at that. with all the offseason moves they never replaced Spikes or Searcy and that hurt the defense more then anyone would have exptected. This doesnt absolve Rex of his in-ability to see the holes in his defense roster, and the gap between his scheme and the players strengths and what that would do to morale and overall results. Which is why I think 2016 is make or break for Rex with 2 years to implement his scheme and another draft to grab guys that fit his scheme, if the Defense falls under top 10 again, hes gone.

[todd]

what you said.

 

Yep. I don't think anyone disagrees that the defense was bad last year, especially given the quality of players. Where I think people disagree is the solution. My personal opinion is that often a solution is more nuanced than the neanderthal "I hate it! Blow it up!" solution that so many posters here think is the only way. Preaching patience doesn't sell newspapers and it doesn't get page views. But it is often simpler jump to the "BLOW IT UP!" conclusion than an analysis of a better one.

[JohnC]

Theres truth in both arguments. We lost Spikes and Searcy which were great in Shartzenators scheme. Spikes was a veteran run stuffing 2 down MLB. Searcy was a genuine Saftey and a good one at that. with all the offseason moves they never replaced Spikes or Searcy and that hurt the defense more then anyone would have exptected. This doesnt absolve Rex of his in-ability to see the holes in his defense roster, and the gap between his scheme and the players strengths and what that would do to morale and overall results. Which is why I think 2016 is make or break for Rex with 2 years to implement his scheme and another draft to grab guys that fit his scheme, if the Defense falls under top 10 again, hes gone.

The NFL of today because of the cap and free agency is about player movement. That is an aspect that no team can avoid.. All teams have to contend with and adjust to the changing roster that occurs every year. Injuries are another reality that is part of the fabric of the environment. That is also inescapable.

 

The HC works with the talent he has on hand, not what he wishes he had on hand. Good coaches prioritize putting the players in the best situation for them to succeed. In my opinion Rex did a poor job adjusting to the talent he had. Dareus, Hughes, Mario and the linebacking corps had major drop-offs under Rex than they did with the previous two defensive coordinators. The defense in general had a major drop-off from the previous two years. What's obvious to me isn't obvious to others.

 

No more excuses.

[Marty McFly]

The NFL of today because of the cap and free agency is about player movement. That is an aspect that no team can avoid.. All teams have to contend with and adjust to the changing roster that occurs every year. Injuries are another reality that is part of the fabric of the environment. That is also inescapable.

 

The HC works with the talent he has on hand, not what he wishes he had on hand. Good coaches prioritize putting the players in the best situation for them to succeed. In my opinion Rex did a poor job adjusting to the talent he had. Dareus, Hughes, Mario and the linebacking corps had major drop-offs under Rex than they did with the previous two defensive coordinators. The defense in general had a major drop-off from the previous two years. What's obvious to me isn't obvious to others.

 

No more excuses.

I think its obvious the HC had a lot to do with the defensive drop off bc thats his "specialty" and calls the plays pretty much, he is responsible for not replacing spikes and searcy as well as adjusting during the season. I watch jets games and was NOT pleased with the Rex hire especially losing Shwartz but the FA moves they made gave me "bills" hope lol. I just hope Pegs has the insight to cut Rex off if it doesnt work out this season. The question is, after a signed 5 year deal, does Pegs still have to pay Rex the whole contract if he gets fired next off-season?

[JohnC]

I think its obvious the HC had a lot to do with the defensive drop off bc thats his "specialty" and calls the plays pretty much, he is responsible for not replacing spikes and searcy as well as adjusting during the season. I watch jets games and was NOT pleased with the Rex hire especially losing Shwartz but the FA moves they made gave me "bills" hope lol. I just hope Pegs has the insight to cut Rex off if it doesnt work out this season. The question is, after a signed 5 year deal, does Pegs still have to pay Rex the whole contract if he gets fired next off-season?

With respect to the highlighted question the answer is yes if he gets fired.

[Adam]

linky

 

Well worth the read for those questioning Rex's ability to coach defense and how sacks/pressure relate to today's game.

He does very well at press conferences

[JohnC]

 

Everyone's numbers were down.

 

I think its obvious Rex's gap control defense was the main reason for the huge decline in sacks....players were bitching about it in the preseason...

 

Mario was a B word. No question.

 

Some choose to find any reason in the book to excuse Rex for this past years defense... And I have a hard time understanding why when, I agree, it is obvious he was the main culprit.

Regardless of the lamenting Rex is staying on. Is he the long term answer as a HC? Not in my eyes. I'm hoping that Whaley has a good draft and makes some sound mid-range free agent pickups and Rex does a better job of adapting to the talent and the players do a better job of adapting to what he is scheming. That's all you can ask for.

 

I like Whaley as a GM. He has made some moves that gives me pause to benefit the short term over the long term, such as the McCoy pickup. His explanation as told on WGR was that he wants the team to get over the non-playoff barrier sooner rather than later. I'm not going to argue against his reasoning. I'm just hoping that the current coaching situation doesn't jeopardize his status as a GM. In my view we have the right ownership and GM in place to accomplish a lot more than has been accomplished in a long time. For me the current coaching situation is a drag on a lot of positive things happening for this franchise.

 

If I'm wrong about my jaundice assessment of the HC I will be more than happy to admit being wrong. But I'm not confident that it will play out that way because Rex is Rex. We got exactly what we hired.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

I think its obvious the HC had a lot to do with the defensive drop off bc thats his "specialty" and calls the plays pretty much, he is responsible for not replacing spikes and searcy as well as adjusting during the season. I watch jets games and was NOT pleased with the Rex hire especially losing Shwartz but the FA moves they made gave me "bills" hope lol. I just hope Pegs has the insight to cut Rex off if it doesnt work out this season. The question is, after a signed 5 year deal, does Pegs still have to pay Rex the whole contract if he gets fired next off-season?

I don't think the money is the reason Rex was retained. The Pegulas spent over a billion for the team, I don't know that something like 25 million really bothers them when it's as important to winning as head coach.

 

Marrone put them in a rough spot when he backed out. They thought they'd come aboard and evaluate the likes of he and Whaley for one year before making a decision on contract extensions.

 

Then Rex tricked them and his performance was disappointing. I think they just didn't want their first act as owners to be hiring a coach who is extremely well liked around the league to a five year deal, then fire him after a single 8 and 8 season, and after season one be forced to hire coach two. That is about as bumpy a start as you can get.

 

If Rex disappoints once more, I have faith he'll be out.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Aaron

[JohnC]

I don't think the money is the reason Rex was retained. The Pegulas spent over a billion for the team, I don't know that something like 25 million really bothers them when it's as important to winning as head coach.

 

Marrone put them in a rough spot when he backed out. They thought they'd come aboard and evaluate the likes of he and Whaley for one year before making a decision on contract extensions.

 

Then Rex tricked them and his performance was disappointing. I think they just didn't want their first act as owners to be hiring a coach who is extremely well liked around the league to a five year deal, then fire him after a single 8 and 8 season, and after season one be forced to hire coach two. That is about as bumpy a start as you can get.

 

If Rex disappoints once more, I have faith he'll be out.

You make a keen observation about the ramifications of Marrone's unexpected departure. I suspect that there was more friction between Marrone and Whaley that was already publicly known. DM probably felt that the friction with Whaley was irreconcilable and that his long term prospects with Whaley as his boss, was not good. Marrone knew that the new owner was going to wait another year before deciding on whether to offer him an extension. So he took a buyout when his extension request was denied with the expectation that he was a serious backdoor candidate for the Jets job. The rumor was that the Jets retreated from a tacit agreement with him because of the fear of being accused of tampering, which it was. The end result is that Doug miscalculated and that miscalculation is going to follow him for a long time in the NFL. That is why I believe that his next head coaching job will be in the college ranks.

[eball]

I don't think the money is the reason Rex was retained. The Pegulas spent over a billion for the team, I don't know that something like 25 million really bothers them when it's as important to winning as head coach.

 

Marrone put them in a rough spot when he backed out. They thought they'd come aboard and evaluate the likes of he and Whaley for one year before making a decision on contract extensions.

 

Then Rex tricked them and his performance was disappointing. I think they just didn't want their first act as owners to be hiring a coach who is extremely well liked around the league to a five year deal, then fire him after a single 8 and 8 season, and after season one be forced to hire coach two. That is about as bumpy a start as you can get.

 

If Rex disappoints once more, I have faith he'll be out.

 

Aaron, this is an intelligent take, but it's not proven fact. There is also a narrative that the Pegulas were hoping Marrone would leave, or that they may have fired him themselves if he didn't.

 

I completely agree with you that money isn't an issue. I believe the Pegulas genuinely like Rex, and they also understand firing him after one .500 season would have been the definition of "knee-jerk reaction."

[Marty McFly]

With respect to the highlighted question the answer is yes if he gets fired.

DAMN!! wow. wish I had an agent like Rex...damn why the hell wouldnt Pegs go for a 3 year deal? Rex has to have one of the best contract negotiating agents in the game. Wat if this was Rexs scam all along? Talk big. Fall flat. Get fired take the money retire and run to the next TV channel that will hire me off my personality and promo skills.

[YoloinOhio]

DAMN!! wow. wish I had an agent like Rex...damn why the hell wouldnt Pegs go for a 3 year deal? Rex has to have one of the best contract negotiating agents in the game. Wat if this was Rexs scam all along? Talk big. Fall flat. Get fired take the money retire and run to the next TV channel that will hire me off my personality and promo skills.

3 year deals are very rare for new HCs. Mularkey got one with the Titans (likely didn't have other options so he took it) and it was an outlier. 4 is more of the norm, but 5 are becoming more common. Edited February 3, 2016 by YoloinOhio

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Regardless of the lamenting Rex is staying on. Is he the long term answer as a HC? Not in my eyes. I'm hoping that Whaley has a good draft and makes some sound mid-range free agent pickups and Rex does a better job of adapting to the talent and the players do a better job of adapting to what he is scheming. That's all you can ask for.

 

I like Whaley as a GM. He has made some moves that gives me pause to benefit the short term over the long term, such as the McCoy pickup. His explanation as told on WGR was that he wants the team to get over the non-playoff barrier sooner rather than later. I'm not going to argue against his reasoning. I'm just hoping that the current coaching situation doesn't jeopardize his status as a GM. In my view we have the right ownership and GM in place to accomplish a lot more than has been accomplished in a long time. For me the current coaching situation is a drag on a lot of positive things happening for this franchise.

 

If I'm wrong about my jaundice assessment of the HC I will be more than happy to admit being wrong. But I'm not confident that it will play out that way because Rex is Rex. We got exactly what we hired.

Preach ! Well said as always.

 

I like Whaley too. I've seen talent depleted Bills teams and the last two years he's given his coaches a lot to work with on both sides of the ball. They don't have the experience of winning in the league but the raw talent has been there for the right coaching staff to create the right culture and lead them. Tyrod's presence opens a window to ending the playoff drought and competing like the Bills haven't had in a long time. so it's such a shame to waste any season right now. Rex will either get it together or get lost and either way there are better days ahead.

[Marty McFly]

3 year deals are very rare for new HCs. Mularkey got one with the Titans (likely didn't have other options so he took it) and it was an outlier. 4 is more of the norm, but 5 are becoming more common.

Did not know that. Didnt Tomsula get a 1 year deal at SF? Regardless Rex has no excuses this year got his brother on staff a season with the team and hand in the draft picks. A lot of us are hopin its a prove it or lose it year for em. If he gets the Axe I hope we keep Roman Kromer and Whaley on staff.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Marty McFly

[YoloinOhio]

Did not know that. Didnt Tomsula get a 1 year deal at SF? Regardless Rex has no excuses this year got his brother on staff a season with the team and hand in the draft picks. A lot of us are hopin its a prove it or lose it year for em. If he gets the Axe I hope we keep Roman Kromer and Whaley on staff.

Tomsula had a 4 year deal with SF. He was fired after 1, and SF had to pay him the whole 14-15 mill. I've never heard of any coach getting a 1 year contract. 1 year extensions are somewhat common, though.

 

They followed that up with, I believe, a 5 year deal for Chip

Edited February 3, 2016 by YoloinOhio

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

You make a keen observation about the ramifications of Marrone's unexpected departure. I suspect that there was more friction between Marrone and Whaley that was already publicly known. DM probably felt that the friction with Whaley was irreconcilable and that his long term prospects with Whaley as his boss, was not good. Marrone knew that the new owner was going to wait another year before deciding on whether to offer him an extension. So he took a buyout when his extension request was denied with the expectation that he was a serious backdoor candidate for the Jets job. The rumor was that the Jets retreated from a tacit agreement with him because of the fear of being accused of tampering, which it was. The end result is that Doug miscalculated and that miscalculation is going to follow him for a long time in the NFL. That is why I believe that his next head coaching job will be in the college ranks.

Wowwww I didn't realize that. Suck it, New York Doug

[Marty McFly]

Tomsula had a 4 year deal with SF. He was fired after 1, and SF had to pay him the whole 14-15 mill. I've never heard of any coach getting a 1 year contract. 1 year extensions are somewhat common, though.

 

They followed that up with, I believe, a 5 year deal for Chip

Holy ****. what a way to get retirement money. SMH. "Hey son climb your ranks as a football coach get a solid NFL contract be smart with your money and your set for life" wow.

Wowwww I didn't realize that. Suck it, New York Doug

Although I agree with your comment. The tampering rule is really stupid.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

 

Aaron, this is an intelligent take, but it's not proven fact. There is also a narrative that the Pegulas were hoping Marrone would leave, or that they may have fired him themselves if he didn't.

 

I completely agree with you that money isn't an issue. I believe the Pegulas genuinely like Rex, and they also understand firing him after one .500 season would have been the definition of "knee-jerk reaction."

Interesting, I hadn't heard this either. Do you think they would have fired Marrone coming off a 9-7 season? Bills fans were generally quite excited about the program at that time. I also think the sudden end to Marrone's tenure kiboshed the Polian deal, which seemed to be something the Pegulas genuinely wanted.

 

I should clarify, I personally would have given Rex the axe (Hue Jackson would've topped my list). I do understand the view that its a knee jerk reaction and appreciate the position the Pegulas were in, so while I don't agree with their decision to give Rex a second chance I will never be critical of it. What I saw this year, paired with his last few years down here in NJ, makes me think this isn't a very good coach for today's NFL. I could write a novel about why which wouldn't sell any copies.

 

All just my opinion of course, which the record will show is far from fact.

[8-8 Forever?]

Rex coached the defense so well last year that it got worse. His approach was to take what works and bend it to what he wanted to do. If it doesn't then blame the dumb players who couldn't absorb your brilliant concepts.

 

Rex Ryan has an MBA in weasel management. He takes credit for the successes and he blames others for the failures. If you want to believe that Rex did a stellar job coaching last year then go ahead and ignore the stats that demonstrably say otherwise. I may be stupid but I am not gullible.

Rex has his scheme. Pettine has his. Schwartz has his. they are all different. quite different and different in how you call the game with them as well, I would imagine. this is all about change of ownership which led to change in coaches which always always always results in the in prior schemes being trashed in favor of what the new coach wants to do (and usually its all he knows well)

 

happens on offense as well: look at what happened in Pittsburg when Ben went nuts after the offense completely changed when Haley took over, -- Haley didn't just adopt Bruce Arians offense (which was very successful and productive in Pittsburg) - he threw it out and put his own offense in -- and it took a couple years for it to take off, and it has... . This happens all the time. this is why continuity is so important; and with continuity it may not work either if a ton of key guys go down with injuries.

 

Go talk to Pegs if you have an issue. He could have held onto Marrone and his staff and you would have had no change in defense. Pegs chose not to. Done and dusted. Move on. These guys have spent their careers building their defensive ideas. and if you hire them they are going to implement them. Is what it is.

Edited February 3, 2016 by 8and8-->NoMore

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Rex has his scheme. Pettine has his. Schwartz has his. they are all different. quite different and different in how you call the game with them as well, I would imagine. this is all about change of ownership which led to change in coaches which always always always results in the in prior schemes being trashed in favor of what the new coach wants to do (and usually its all he knows well)

 

happens on offense as well: look at what happened in Pittsburg when Ben went nuts after the offense completely changed when Haley took over, -- Haley didn't just adopt Bruce Arians offense (which was very successful and productive in Pittsburg) - he threw it out and put his own offense in -- and it took a couple years for it to take off, and it has... . This happens all the time. this is why continuity is so important; and with continuity it may not work either if a ton of key guys go down with injuries.

 

Go talk to Pegs if you have an issue. He could have held onto Marrone and his staff and you would have had no change in defense. Pegs chose not to. Done and dusted. Move on. These guys have spent their careers building their defensive ideas. and if you hire them they are going to implement them. Is what it is.

It's worth noting that Pettine came in and ran a one-gap 4-3, after coming from Ryan's staff. He even played a rookie Mike linebacker who is really an OLB in order to do this, because he recognized the Bills defense would perform at its best if the DL was free to wreak havoc. This is why our pass rush was drastically better and turnovers way up as compared to Rex. Other side of the coin Rex' D was a lot better against the run.

[JohnC]

Wowwww I didn't realize that. Suck it, New York Doug

I really believe that Doug Marrone believed that he was going to get the job with the Jets. I'm sure his agent made inquiries that indicated that he had a good chance for the Jet position. However, the Jets did their due diligence. It became very apparent that at all his stops there were people who were more than willing to point out his flaws, much of them having to do with his authoritarian style and prickly personality. In every organization he worked he was disliked. His disagreeable personality traits came back to haunt him.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24934962/all-signs-pointing-to-doug-marrone-as-next-jets-coach

Rex has his scheme. Pettine has his. Schwartz has his. they are all different. quite different and different in how you call the game with them as well, I would imagine. this is all about change of ownership which led to change in coaches which always always always results in the in prior schemes being trashed in favor of what the new coach wants to do (and usually its all he knows well)

 

happens on offense as well: look at what happened in Pittsburg when Ben went nuts after the offense completely changed when Haley took over, -- Haley didn't just adopt Bruce Arians offense (which was very successful and productive in Pittsburg) - he threw it out and put his own offense in -- and it took a couple years for it to take off, and it has... . This happens all the time. this is why continuity is so important; and with continuity it may not work either if a ton of key guys go down with injuries.

 

Go talk to Pegs if you have an issue. He could have held onto Marrone and his staff and you would have had no change in defense. Pegs chose not to. Done and dusted. Move on. These guys have spent their careers building their defensive ideas. and if you hire them they are going to implement them. Is what it is.

Pettine worked for Rex in NY. If I'm not mistaken he was his DC. Pettine's scheme was not the same as Schwartz's scheme. Yet both coaches with different systems (not dramatically different) were smart enough to develop their respective defenses to suit the talent on their roster. Both defenses were ranked very high. That was not the case with Rex.

 

You are wrong that Pegula could have held on to Marrone for the simple fact that Marrone basically quit the organization by invoking a buyout clause in his contract. Schwartz was asked to stay on by Rex. He said no.

[3rdand12]

Rex has his scheme. Pettine has his. Schwartz has his. they are all different. quite different and different in how you call the game with them as well, I would imagine. this is all about change of ownership which led to change in coaches which always always always results in the in prior schemes being trashed in favor of what the new coach wants to do (and usually its all he knows well)

 

happens on offense as well: look at what happened in Pittsburg when Ben went nuts after the offense completely changed when Haley took over, -- Haley didn't just adopt Bruce Arians offense (which was very successful and productive in Pittsburg) - he threw it out and put his own offense in -- and it took a couple years for it to take off, and it has... . This happens all the time. this is why continuity is so important; and with continuity it may not work either if a ton of key guys go down with injuries.

 

Go talk to Pegs if you have an issue. He could have held onto Marrone and his staff and you would have had no change in defense. Pegs chose not to. Done and dusted. Move on. These guys have spent their careers building their defensive ideas. and if you hire them they are going to implement them. Is what it is.

another Good post. We need to hike up our socks and deal

I really believe that Doug Marrone believed that he was going to get the job with the Jets. I'm sure his agent made inquiries that indicated that he had a good chance for the Jet position. However, the Jets did their due diligence. It became very apparent that at all his stops there were people who were more than willing to point out his flaws, much of them having to do with his authoritarian style and prickly personality. In every organization he worked he was disliked. His disagreeable personality traits came back to haunt him.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24934962/all-signs-pointing-to-doug-marrone-as-next-jets-coach

Pettine worked for Rex in NY. If I'm not mistaken he was his DC. Pettine's scheme was not the same as Schwartz's scheme. Yet both coaches with different systems (not dramatically different) were smart enough to develop their respective defenses to suit the talent on their roster. Both defenses were ranked very high. That was not the case with Rex.

 

You are wrong that Pegula could have held on to Marrone for the simple fact that Marrone basically quit the organization by invoking a buyout clause in his contract. Schwartz was asked to stay on by Rex. He said no.

I think that was just a blurb. No one expected that. A matter of etiquette at best.

Ryan has his system he has been refining for many years. And as most detractors and some pro Ryan guys have affirmed thats how is gonna be.

 

He does think he is the smartest Man in the room. I am fine with that actually.

 

is he smart enough to delegate his defense and be the HC? yet to be proven.

 

Not to be rude but why are we talking about Marrone still ?

Edited February 4, 2016 by 3rdand12

[JohnC]

another Good post. We need to hike up our socks and deal

I think that was just a blurb. No one expected that. A matter of etiquette at best.

Ryan has his system he has been refining for many years. And as most detractors and some pro Ryan guys have affirmed thats how is gonna be.

 

He does think he is the smartest Man in the room. I am fine with that actually.

 

is he smart enough to delegate his defense and be the HC? yet to be proven.

 

Not to be rude but why are we talking about Marrone still ?

Someone brought it up regarding how his unexpected departure affected the organization.

 

 

 

He does think he is the smartest Man in the room. I am fine with that actually.

 

I'm not fine with someone who is far from being the smartest person in the room thinking it and acting as if he is. That is a source of his stubbornness and lack of adaptability.Why do you think that the defense's ranking plummeted under his guidance? I'm not trying to be mean-spirited but his coaching of the defense last season was some of the dumbest coaching I have ever seen since I have been a Bills fan. And I go way back!

Edited February 4, 2016 by JohnC

[Hapless Bills Fan]

You make a keen observation about the ramifications of Marrone's unexpected departure. I suspect that there was more friction between Marrone and Whaley that was already publicly known. DM probably felt that the friction with Whaley was irreconcilable and that his long term prospects with Whaley as his boss, was not good. Marrone knew that the new owner was going to wait another year before deciding on whether to offer him an extension. So he took a buyout when his extension request was denied with the expectation that he was a serious backdoor candidate for the Jets job. The rumor was that the Jets retreated from a tacit agreement with him because of the fear of being accused of tampering, which it was. The end result is that Doug miscalculated and that miscalculation is going to follow him for a long time in the NFL. That is why I believe that his next head coaching job will be in the college ranks.

 

Was Whaley Marrone's boss? I thought they both reported to Brandon?

 

Maybe the Jets were worried about tampering, I say they just didn't like what he had to say for himself during his interview and they didn't like the gouge the media cooked up - the media cookin's were public, and the report that his interview didn't go well occurred shortly after the interview.

[Marty McFly]

Interesting, I hadn't heard this either. Do you think they would have fired Marrone coming off a 9-7 season? Bills fans were generally quite excited about the program at that time. I also think the sudden end to Marrone's tenure kiboshed the Polian deal, which seemed to be something the Pegulas genuinely wanted.

 

I should clarify, I personally would have given Rex the axe (Hue Jackson would've topped my list). I do understand the view that its a knee jerk reaction and appreciate the position the Pegulas were in, so while I don't agree with their decision to give Rex a second chance I will never be critical of it. What I saw this year, paired with his last few years down here in NJ, makes me think this isn't a very good coach for today's NFL. I could write a novel about why which wouldn't sell any copies.

 

All just my opinion of course, which the record will show is far from fact.

Coming from someone in the 201. I agree. I had already seen so many Jet games I was NOT happy when we signed him as HC...Hes got a decent roster to work with Just has to revive the defense with the draft and hopefully the players buy in. If those 2 things dont happen were doomed until hes fired or re-tired.

Edited February 4, 2016 by Marty McFly

[3rdand12]

Someone brought it up regarding how his unexpected departure affected the organization.

 

 

 

 

I'm not fine with someone who is far from being the smartest person in the room thinking it and acting as if he is. That is a source of his stubbornness and lack of adaptability.Why do you think that the defense's ranking plummeted under his guidance? I'm not trying to be mean-spirited but his coaching of the defense last season was some of the dumbest coaching I have ever seen since I have been a Bills fan. And I go way back!

You dont have to go very far back. Wannstadt for instance.

But i certainly am not going to defend Ryan. Its been hashed and rehashed.

Folks are set in their opinions while i thought it was an accumulation of errors. My stance is wait and see. I like pegula has given him free reign , so there will be no excuses.

[JohnC]

 

Was Whaley Marrone's boss? I thought they both reported to Brandon?

 

Maybe the Jets were worried about tampering, I say they just didn't like what he had to say for himself during his interview and they didn't like the gouge the media cooked up - the media cookin's were public, and the report that his interview didn't go well occurred shortly after the interview.

They both reported to Brandon but from a football operation standpoint Whaley was Marrone's boss in that he had the responsibility for assembling the roster and the HC worked (coached) the roster presented to him. The problem between the two had little to do with where they stood within the official organizational chart. In any system the GM and the HC have to have a good working relationship. How they handle their differences and work together is more important than who is higher or lower in rank.

 

As the CBS link on post#153 indicates the more the Jets did with respect to "due diligence" the more troubled they were with him as a candidate. He was difficult to work with in an organizational setting and wherever he worked he was not liked. There is a smugness and arrogance to this puffed up man who most people find repugnant. I believe that he thought through the influence of his agent who was making backdoor inquiries that he was the favored candidate for the Jets job. He miscalculated. Within the NFL world that miscalculation is going to haunt him for a long time. That is why I believe he will end up in the college ranks again.

 

Marrone was not happy in Buffalo. His was checking out other options He was also a silent and top tier candidate for the Univ. of Michigan job. Once Harbaugh declared his interest for that job Marrone lost another option.

 

Would I prefer Marrone over Rex as a HC? Absolutely! The team was on the upswing in his two year tenure. I have little regard for Rex and his mouthy style. Regardless if Marrone would have stayed his tenure with the Bills was not going to be a long term duration. DM is an arrogant priiiick who will always cause rancor within any organization. With this type of person who possesses so many unappealing traits the departure date is always in the pipeline.

[eball]

Interesting, I hadn't heard this either. Do you think they would have fired Marrone coming off a 9-7 season? Bills fans were generally quite excited about the program at that time. I also think the sudden end to Marrone's tenure kiboshed the Polian deal, which seemed to be something the Pegulas genuinely wanted.

 

I should clarify, I personally would have given Rex the axe (Hue Jackson would've topped my list). I do understand the view that its a knee jerk reaction and appreciate the position the Pegulas were in, so while I don't agree with their decision to give Rex a second chance I will never be critical of it. What I saw this year, paired with his last few years down here in NJ, makes me think this isn't a very good coach for today's NFL. I could write a novel about why which wouldn't sell any copies.

 

All just my opinion of course, which the record will show is far from fact.

 

I don't know what I would have done -- but there has been speculation that the Pegulas wanted to fire Marrone but actually saved themselves $4M by letting him quit instead (they would have had to pay him the remaining years on the contract by firing him). That line of reasoning suggests they intentionally refused his demands for contract extensions for himself and his assistants, as well as more personnel control, in order to force his hand.

 

I understand the distaste for Rex you share with many Bills fans. I am cautiously optimistic he is learning as he goes -- not all head coaches reach their pinnacle immediately, and I do believe Rex has more support now in Buffalo than he had at any time in New York. I realize to some that is a ridiculous statement -- "he has been a HC for SEVEN years! -- but that's what I think.

[JohnC]

 

I don't know what I would have done -- but there has been speculation that the Pegulas wanted to fire Marrone but actually saved themselves $4M by letting him quit instead (they would have had to pay him the remaining years on the contract by firing him). That line of reasoning suggests they intentionally refused his demands for contract extensions for himself and his assistants, as well as more personnel control, in order to force his hand.

 

 

When the Pegulas took over the team they wisely were not going to give out extensions to anyone. If Whaley would have been as foolish as was Marrone to ask for an extension he also would have been told no. The new owners were in an assessment mode. They didn't let Marrone quit---he quit on his own accord. It was Marrone who invoked the buyout option clause in his contract. The Pegulas had no choice but to abide by the terms of the contract.

[eball]

 

When the Pegulas took over the team they wisely were not going to give out extensions to anyone. If Whaley would have been as foolish as was Marrone to ask for an extension he also would have been told no. The new owners were in an assessment mode. They didn't let Marrone quit---he quit on his own accord. It was Marrone who invoked the buyout option clause in his contract. The Pegulas had no choice but to abide by the terms of the contract.

 

 

I think you're missing my point. If one is to believe the Pegulas wanted Marrone out, then by refusing his demands they "encouraged" him to take the buyout -- which saved them money.

[Nihilarian]

Jerry Hughes is one of the most immature players in the league. He is not the only Bills defender who lacks discipline in my opinion.

 

By contrast to Marrone, Rex for better or worse creates an environment that allows players to be themselves and to lead each other rather than looking to the coach. If you have Ray Lewis, great. If you have no leaders and a bunch of undisciplined players who have never won anything, that approach gets ugly fast. There's nobody to hold guys accountable. Rex was not a stylistic fit for the particular 9-7 team we had in place, neither schematically nor in terms of his leadership approach.

 

Re: football IQ, I got the sense that some fraction of the problem was that some of these players aren't smart or instinctual enough to play this way. The defensive line has to read and react when they two-gap, not necessary when you're pass rushing like a headless chicken every snap in a base 4-3. Bradham, Brown and Rambo, among others seemed to get lost out there. Kiko, in contrast to Bradham was an instinctual player with a high football IQ I'd have liked to see. Schwartz ran a basic scheme they practiced over and over and over and our guys didn't have to think much.

 

What we had previously was working with these same players, this is not lost on me. To tear that down and rebuild is foolish, but that foolishness does not prove it won't work.

 

To quote one of the wittiest posters we have, I just think it won't work Because. Rex. Sucks. But here's to hoping that more leadership and intelligence from the players might help.

Interesting take about Ryan's approach to his players and you also nailed the rest of it on a lot of points.

 

 

 

My take is the 2016 Buffalo Bills defense could easily improve just by blitzing more than the less than 10% Ryan Blitzed some games in 2015. Then add in some new players at linebacker and the defense could be a whole lot better this year.

 

 

What I get a kick out of are the Bills fans who come out saying that sacks don't matter or aren't that important. They do matter and will always matter! What a turnaround in view because this new HC stunk it up in getting any kind of pressure on the QB most of the season, so now sacks are no big deal...

 

There was a huge reason as to why the Bills paid Mario Williams 100 million dollars and it wasn't to see him play in a two gap system!! Same with Hughes and Dareus. Sacks go hand in hand with QB pressures, hits, hurries and those are some of the most important stats a defense can try to attain to be the best in. 250 million or 28% of the payroll tied up in pass rushers only to see them do everything but rush the passer.

 

Watching the 2015 Bills defensive line play was basically agonizing for me most of the year after seeing what Schwartz was able to do with the very same players the previous season.

 

 

 

Previous to the start of the 2015 season Rex Ryan stated he had never had this much talent on a defense and expectations were sky high for the Bills defense to be perhaps one of the best ever. The Bills FO, ownership, and the fans all thought that 2015 would be to finally unseat the Patriots and a run for the AFC East division championship. However, those expectations were not met and not even close.

 

Bills fans have every right to voice their opinion about last year's results and have every right to be skeptical about the upcoming season considering how things transpired last year. Trust me when I say that every single Bills fan out there wants to like Rex Ryan and wants the team to win games with him as head coach.

 

For whatever reason these new owners gave Ryan another year to get his shi..."things" together and I hope that's all they give him if we see another season like 2015. The fans deserve better than 8-8 and beating teams with scrub QB's, new coaching staffs or the just the other teams in the division for revenge.

[stevewin]

 

not buying that, Broncos beat the crap out of Brady with pressure even though drop many back into coverage. Wade is just smarter than Rex

Totally agree with this. And pressure doesn't have to be sacks - the Broncos hit Brady almost 20 times and pressured him into being uncomfortable and bad throws numerous other times. The Broncos won because people got to Brady and got in his face and hit him, even when they didn't sack him.

Edited February 4, 2016 by stevewin

[Gabe Northern]

Bart Scott: "The way to get to the QB in today's game is through tight coverage, not blitzes."

 

Observer: "I see! So did the Bills get the QB more with tight coverage instead of sending pressure?"

 

Scott: "Um no. They went from a team record for sacks to the lowest total in team history."

 

Observer: "Um....okay....thanks."

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

 

I don't know what I would have done -- but there has been speculation that the Pegulas wanted to fire Marrone but actually saved themselves $4M by letting him quit instead (they would have had to pay him the remaining years on the contract by firing him). That line of reasoning suggests they intentionally refused his demands for contract extensions for himself and his assistants, as well as more personnel control, in order to force his hand.

 

I understand the distaste for Rex you share with many Bills fans. I am cautiously optimistic he is learning as he goes -- not all head coaches reach their pinnacle immediately, and I do believe Rex has more support now in Buffalo than he had at any time in New York. I realize to some that is a ridiculous statement -- "he has been a HC for SEVEN years! -- but that's what I think.

I hope you're right, brother in blue.