CodeMonkey Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 (edited) The issue I heard about was there wasn't enough regulation of employees of 1 working the other with their intimate knowledge of the "game" Not intimate knowledge of the game, intimate knowledge of what all the players (fan duel and draftkings players) were doing. They had access to all of the data so they could see trends and create lineups to take advantage of that. So not football knowledge, insider knowledge. A HUGE advantage. Edited November 11, 2015 by CodeMonkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 The hypocrisy is pretty bad. You can walk in almost any bar in WNY and find a Keno machine to play or buy scratch-off tickets out of a vending machine. Can't tell you how many times I've been stuck behind someone buying hundreds of dollars worth of Lottery tickets at the gas station register. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted November 11, 2015 Author Share Posted November 11, 2015 If idiots wish to be parted from their money then let's not stand in their way. So ill take my $25 and spread it over 17 weeks with a chance at return. You take your $25 and spend it at the bar in one night. How is either one an "idiot" as you say, if they both get enjoyment out of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Protocal69 Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 (edited) 1. Does anyone have any idea of what the house take/vig is for sites like FanDuel and Draft Kings? I'm not a big gambler, but whenever I'm in Vegas I visit the sports books. I've kept away from fantasy sites because they're not transparent. I know what the house keeps in a normal sports betting pool, for various bets at the race track, etc. I have no idea. To me it's a consumer issue -- one that would be better addressed by ensuring a fair/transparent game than by banning these sites. 2. Follow the money. Nevada casino interests hate competition. (Follow Harry Reid too) Look what happened when Delaware tried to legalize sports gambling. The current Administration thinks it's fine and dandy for states to legalize a federally banned substance, but when a state tries to legalize gambling, watch out. It depends on the game type. On average the rake (or take) is around 10%-14%. That why to become a winning player on heads up and 50/50's you have to win at a minimum of 62% of the time to make a profit. What does work to the players favor is overlay. Overlay is is the difference between the total guaranteed prize-pool by a DFS site and the actual number of paid entries. It's money the site has to put in to the prize pool themselves rather than being added by other DFS players. This gives the players that know how to look for overlay an advantage against the site Edited November 11, 2015 by Protocal69 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy10 Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Good. Those companies are shady as hell. Plus any pie Jerry Jones and Bobby Kraft have their fat little thumbs in has to be rotten. I'm not against gambling in any way, shape or form. But the game has to be square, and I'm glad NYS is stepping up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonabb Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 I use and they should be illegal until they make all sports books legal. They are no more a game of skill than betting games. Each is pure luck and the only skill that comes into it is for those with the expertise to develop models to reduce variability and therefore slightly increase their odds. Put another way, the likelihood of losing your FanDuel game is based predicting multiple outcomes (players stats), something that has more luck than skill involved. How is predicting the outcome of multiple players more of a skill than predicting the outcome of two teams? If it was pure skill, then FanDuel and DraftKings should publish the winning percentages for all users and those who use sophisticated data models should also publish their winning percentages. Then we'll see, conclusively, that the difference between the two groups is likely minimal, hence the supposedly skill is really non-existent. The reality is, if it's a game of skill, no one has any. The house always wins and you end up with a balance of zero over time. That's the crux of the business model, it's no different than a casino. I actually don't really care. My argument isn't as much against FanDuel as it is the illegality of sports betting. If FanDuel is doing this and trying to argue semantics and legalese, then show us the data, specifically the percentage of users who consistent win, ie have skill. Show us how that differs in a statistically significant manner from sports gambling, which is said to be pure luck. Ultimately, it comes down to the human element, the pro leagues don't want games affected by players engaged in gambling on their own teams and throwing games. A player can do that for themselves if they have a team with 8 other players on it. So the Jerry Jones' (soulless greed) support a legal framework to outlaw that while then investing in a gambling effort to line their pockets based on the collective performance of their employees. It's all a sham, so let's stop the sham and make all gambling legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Fong Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 I haven't played yet. I was thinking about trying it out this season, but the absolute deluge of commercials turned me off to the point that I'd never sign up for one of their sites. I do believe people should be able to spend their money however they wish. I don't think government has a place regulating this. That's just my opinion, not a legal argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 I swear I don't think I've heard one person ever say they're losing money on these sites! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Protocal69 Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 As a DFS player what makes me mad is that people who do not play the game think they know everything about the game. I guess that's the site fault for just saying deposit money, make picks, get paid. In its most simplistic form yes that is what you do but in order for you to win consistantly you have to do your research for the week. Do me a favor and go to this site: rotogrinders.com. Just read through the forums and courses and then tell me it's ALL luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 It is legal just the states want a cut of the winnings. Boom! It's all about the $$$$$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikef272002 Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 I've played a couple times and didn't win anything. I only put in $25.00 so it's not like I lost big bucks... I don't see how someone sitting behind a desk can tell the entire state that they can't do something with their money.. I'd like to make my own ruling and say I no longer can pay taxes to this freaking state! it's my money and I should be able to risk it how I want...! Plain and simple, It's not the states money... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted November 11, 2015 Author Share Posted November 11, 2015 I swear I don't think I've heard one person ever say they're losing money on these sites! Ive done both. Won and lost. Last week was a decent win week. So I let $20 ride on a contest A lot more people lose than win. The contest I am in now has spots for 286,250 contestants. The total prize pool is $5,000,000. $1,000,000 to first. The top 63,000 places pay. In this structure 200,000+ are going to lose money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 (edited) It depends on the game type. On average the rake (or take) is around 10%-14%. That why to become a winning player on heads up and 50/50's you have to win at a minimum of 62% of the time to make a profit. What does work to the players favor is overlay. Overlay is is the difference between the total guaranteed prize-pool by a DFS site and the actual number of paid entries. It's money the site has to put in to the prize pool themselves rather than being added by other DFS players. This gives the players that know how to look for overlay an advantage against the site Thanks. Good information. Do they publish the rake for various game types? I know this is all kind of insider sports gambling stuff for the average citizen (and I'm a decidedly amateur bettor, but I still know more than the average citizen), but this is the type of information the daily fantasy sites need to be pushing out there. Market something that's a fair game, where the player can know what he's up against and can decide whether it's worth the effort to become a more efficient player, and I'm 100% behind you. EDIT: and if it's just a lottery ticket, that's fine too. Just disclose and let people decide. Edited November 11, 2015 by The Frankish Reich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Protocal69 Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Thanks. Good information. Do they publish the rake for various game types? I know this is all kind of insider sports gambling stuff for the average citizen (and I'm a decidedly amateur bettor, but I still know more than the average citizen), but this is the type of information the daily fantasy sites need to be pushing out there. Market something that's a fair game, where the player can know what he's up against and can decide whether it's worth the effort to become a more efficient player, and I'm 100% behind you. EDIT: and if it's just a lottery ticket, that's fine too. Just disclose and let people decide. Naw they don't publish this information, but I think you can do the math for each game type. For example after the game has started just take the number of entries and multiple that by the entry fee and subtract that from the prize pool. What's left over is the rake for that game. So the percentages would vary based upon that info. Head up and 50/50's are a little more straight forward. Those are almost around 10% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRT88 Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 This from the state that sponsors NYSlooto and OTB. hypocrisy at it's best. Why we are at it, online poker should be legal and regulated too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr1 Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Fanduel and DraftKings are "gambling" but the NYSE isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Not intimate knowledge of the game, intimate knowledge of what all the players (fan duel and draftkings players) were doing. They had access to all of the data so they could see trends and create lineups to take advantage of that. So not football knowledge, insider knowledge. A HUGE advantage. I should have elaborated on the word “game" as in the system and not the actual football game itself. I get a kick out of one of their commercials Why sign a meh RB when you can ... I think it was DraftKings http://www.ispot.tv/ad/AY5K/draftkings-one-week-fantasy-football-meh-featuring-matthew-berry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Protocal69 Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 (edited) Fanduel and DraftKings are "gambling" but the NYinvestingE isn't. Exactly. If you know anything about option investing it is the same thing. In option "investing" either you take the side that the stock price will go down or up. It's a contract between 2 people who can't see each other. It's a zero sum game. So in many ways you are gambling that you are right. For more info Google CBOE or option investing and look at some training videos if you are not in the know Edited November 11, 2015 by Protocal69 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Being a Brit I have no idea why sports gambling is so frowned upon in the US. It is an everyday part of life here. You go into a soccer stadium and every major club has a "betting partner" firm in the stadium taking bets on the game, you watch a major soccer game on TV and every other advert at half time is for a sports betting firm. It hasn't caused the breakdwon of society as we know it or led to major deprivation..... Why is it so frowned on in America? Or do I not even want to know.....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 This is about their take. Horse racing is fine now in NYS because of OTB. I could care less if you want to squander your entire savings if your that dumb. If your not a risky gambler and want to have fun each week with $50, and have the income, great. Your not hurting anyone, and if a capitalist business has found a way to create a business model for you and them to profit, then what is the problem. Personal choices are just that. Morally, i teach my kids not to gamble, nor do i for the most part other than a fun $20 bet with a friend over the Bills vs. whoever a buddy's team we are playing. This is typical NYS over legislating everything. It's also why you guys pay more taxes than most states in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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