NoSaint Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I hear you and I am not saying that it isn't M&T's problem. At the end of the day they are responsible for their marketing. There is no doubt about that. All that I am saying is that if the Bills would have properly communicated this POTENTIALLY could have been prevented. I guess that we don't know whether or not they communicated properly but we do know that the execution wasn't there. It is just a learning experience for all of them and the type of thing that they can tighten up. It isn't the end of the world but it wasn't done well either. as an ideal, how would you picture it laid out? i know you mentioned making sure they are aware the risk of players moving on a broad level, but to get more into the nuts and bolts on an individual like jackson. what type of communication do you envision? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Kirby I have the utmost respect for you as a TBD member but I have to strongly disagree with you. I cannot see how you could even float the notion that Fred Jackson might not be on the team to a client without risking a raging s##t storm. All it would take is one person to leak that information to Timmah or Bucko. I can imagine the tweets and headlines. "Bills clients steer personnel decisions!" "Russ Brandon still calling the shots!" Talk about embarrassing. Also, I'm certain the M&T deal took MONTHS. Who's to say this was known way back then? They had no idea what would happen in camp with injuries, to Fred or otherwise. No, sorry. The FO owed M&T nothing in this deal for no other reason than they had NOTHING to give them. M&T is a !@#$ing bank. They should know a thing or two about calculated risk. This one bit them in the ass. Moving on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Does anyone have any doubt that a situation like this isn't expilictly covered in the contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/02/report-bills-concerned-lesean-mccoy-wont-be-healthy-for-week-1/ Awesome. Let me throw some gas on the fire. Rex's Plan B for messing with the Colts preparation. He had to announce the starting QB but this is just as good for creating confusion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 No, sorry. The FO owed M&T nothing in this deal for no other reason than they had NOTHING to give them. M&T is a !@#$ing bank. They should know a thing or two about calculated risk.Lol. Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Right, and that all makes sense. And you have constantly provided terrific insight into the marketing and PR aspect of the pro sports world. So many thanks. Just not sure there is blame to go around in this particular unique situation with what we know and don't know. What, for instance, do you do if you did the "please plan accordingly" like above and your guys tell M&T what about Sammy and they say, "But Fred IS Buffalo. He's perfect. He's everything we want. Sammy is a little too soft spoken." We really don't know what happened. From my perspective it appears that the communication fell short. I probably would have tried to steer them towards Aaron Williams and his engaging personality. I would keep pushing them for what they are trying to achieve and direct them in the right manner. I gave a list earlier of the 5 or 6 players that are the 'safest" imo. Those are the people that I would be pushing the most and would be candid that they are pretty certain to be here for at least a few more years. It isn't perfect and at the end of the day M&T is going to make the decision. It is commonplace though that people don't get caught off guard. This is just one example Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/02/report-bills-concerned-lesean-mccoy-wont-be-healthy-for-week-1/ Awesome. Let me throw some gas on the fire. #Re-signFred #smokescreen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Kirby I have the utmost respect for you as a TBD member but I have to strongly disagree with you. I cannot see how you could even float the notion that Fred Jackson might not be on the team to a client without risking a raging s##t storm. All it would take is one person to leak that information to Timmah or Bucko. I can imagine the tweets and headlines. "Bills clients steer personnel decisions!" "Russ Brandon still calling the shots!" Talk about embarrassing. The point is that every decision is communicated through the "Russ Brandon's" of every organization. They are not making the decisions but they are well aware of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heitz Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 We really don't know what happened. From my perspective it appears that the communication fell short. I probably would have tried to steer them towards Aaron Williams and his engaging personality. I would keep pushing them for what they are trying to achieve and direct them in the right manner. I gave a list earlier of the 5 or 6 players that are the 'safest" imo. Those are the people that I would be pushing the most and would be candid that they are pretty certain to be here for at least a few more years. It isn't perfect and at the end of the day M&T is going to make the decision. It is commonplace though that people don't get caught off guard. This is just one example Spoken like a sports marketer - and they likely did that. Clients are funny like that, they want to do what they want to do... I could tell my client to "sign athlete A" and they'd say "That's great, but what about athlete B who is in the iron lung? We LOVE that guy!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 The point is that every decision is communicated through the "Russ Brandon's" of every organization. They are not making the decisions but they are well aware of them.Even if Russ knew he can't say anything to his staff or M&T. You don't think M&T can't read between the lines when the Bills are talking them out of Fred Jackson? You might as well just call the Buffalo News tell them Fred's done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Tim Graham did what he has a history of doing. The fact that so many posters were so willing to be led down that path is amazing.... Yup...especially since he pulled the same crap here, got called out for it and ran away crying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/02/report-bills-concerned-lesean-mccoy-wont-be-healthy-for-week-1/ Awesome. Let me throw some gas on the fire. #Re-signFred even if this was true (it has since been refuted by PFT) or it did indeed come to fruition, the word in TC was Karlos played himself into the #2 spot. I do not think it would have been Fred starting in place of McCoy. He isn't fast enough, bottom line. I love him but he's not a workhorse RB anymore. Edited September 2, 2015 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 @mikerodak If Fred Jackson was on the roster Week 1, his 2015 salary would've become GTD. So if $$ was factor, couldn't keep him as McCoy insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) as an ideal, how would you picture it laid out? i know you mentioned making sure they are aware the risk of players moving on a broad level, but to get more into the nuts and bolts on an individual like jackson. what type of communication do you envision? Doug keeps the Pegula's, coaching and Russ involved with what he is thinking. This move should not have caught anyone off guard. A few questions would have been asked candidly. "When you say that Fred might not be here are you saying that it is a 70% chance or a 1% chance?" Russ takes this information to the Sr. Staff meeting and says something like, "there is a chance that Freddy wont be on the roster this upcoming year. Please try to steer clear of featuring him in promotional material. I am not saying that it is likely but it is better to be safe than sorry. Do your best to do so and that doesn't leave this room." It then falls on the department head's (who ultimately sign off on all of this stuff) to guide the process. As an example when the department heads meet with their management teams as they guide the different organizational initiatives (that is kind of where I fell). They guide the marketing themes, the ticket sales, the sponsor sales, the ticket service, the sponsor service, the pr, the marketing, the community relations, etc... There is a staff below them that really executes these tasks (may be one more layer of management here as well). I am not suggesting that the information is shared with the 150 or so people in the organization but with all of the key decision makers. Think about it like this. What kind of calls do you think that they are receiving today? If a plan had been drafted at the sr. level they could begin carrying it out instead of reacting. The plan could have been further developed (and had more people clued in) as the possibility became more real. It is not perfect but it certainly cuts down on situations like this. Edited September 2, 2015 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 yea, all the regulars that have been here longer than DW (or any other front office members) and specifically most of the rational guys that both agree with, and often call out the team on moves, are Doug whaley plants. It's a phony persona man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Yup...especially since he pulled the same crap here, got called out for it and ran away crying. You know, I really want to believe that Timmah's not a complete twat. But he makes it so damn hard. He's just SUCH a little B word, especially on twitter. Faced with nothing but his timeline, we're left to reach one of two conclusions: his intellect is incomprehensible to anyone who doesn't see things his way; or he's a dim, defensive jerk who's been given a platform he doesn't deserve. I'm not kidding when I say that I try REALLY hard to find evidence of the former...it's just...not...there. @mikerodak If Fred Jackson was on the roster Week 1, his 2015 salary would've become GTD. So if $$ was factor, couldn't keep him as McCoy insurance. I don't understand what the point of this tweet was. Doug keeps the Pegula's, coaching and Russ involved with what he is thinking. This move should not have caught anyone off guard. A few questions would have been asked candidly. "When you say that Fred might not be here are you saying that it is a 70% chance or a 1% chance?" Russ takes this information to the Sr. Staff meeting and says something like, "there is a chance that Freddy wont be on the roster this upcoming year. Please try to steer clear of featuring him in promotional material. I am not saying that it is likely but it is better to be safe than sorry. Do your best to do so and that doesn't leave this room." It then falls on the department head's (who ultimately sign off on all of this stuff) to guide the process. As an example when the department heads meet with their management teams as they guide the different organizational initiatives (that is kind of where I fell). They guide the marketing themes, the ticket sales, the sponsor sales, the ticket service, the sponsor service, the pr, the marketing, the community relations, etc... There is a staff below them that really executes these tasks (may be one more layer of management here as well). I am not suggesting that the information is shared with the 150 or so people in the organization but with all of the key decision makers. Think about it like this. What kind of calls do you think that they are receiving today? If a plan had been drafted at the sr. level they could begin carrying it out instead of reacting. The plan could have been further developed (and had more people clued in) as the possibility became more real. It is not perfect but it certainly cuts down on situations like this. I just don't know--on what planet--that possibility WASN'T communicated. That can't POSSIBLY be the case. And if it is, then the M&T promotions people are either a.) bad at their jobs or b.) a bunch of nodding yesmen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Even if Russ knew he can't say anything to his staff or M&T. You don't think M&T can't read between the lines when the Bills are talking them out of Fred Jackson? You might as well just call the Buffalo News tell them Fred's done. Not if done carefully, at this point it was too late. Early in the process it wouldn't have looked strange at all. The M&T people that work with the Bills people have very close relationships. In theory, the Bills would know their marketing goals and could guide the situation without it looking suspicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Not if done carefully, at this point it was too late. Early in the process it wouldn't have looked strange at all. The M&T people that work with the Bills people have very close relationships. In theory, the Bills would know their marketing goals and could guide the situation without it looking suspicious. The topic came up. It had to. And if you believe that it did, then the implication is that the FO LIED to M&T, and I'm not buying that. M&T wanted Jackson. They got him. Now they look dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 So Freddy took a shot at Whaley because Doug extended his contract and said he wanted Fred to retire a Bill? Is that "dishonest"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) However, I'd like to think that anyone that isn't 100% acluistic would click on poster's names and see how long they've been members of the boards, and then engage their brain in order to draw a conclusion as to whether they've been recently hired to shill. Then again, I'm always giving people too much credit for thinking. The Bills are smarter than you think. They realized what could have happened in 2000 so they began putting board plants in after that, knowing eventually this situation would arise again and it would be very helpful to have board veterans 'towing' the company line. Which reminds me, has anyone else gotten time and a half this week?!? The OT is killing me! Might be time for a class-action wage lawsuit. Edited September 2, 2015 by KD in CT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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