YoloinOhio Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 So Freddy took a shot at Whaley because Doug extended his contract and said he wanted Fred to retire a Bill? Is that "dishonest"? maybe Whaley just said he wanted him to retire and Fred inferred the rest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 No. Read through his twitter feed (which I just did). Coaches, people in football ops, etc. means more than "some coaches." To be honest, I'm going to move on because I realize I'm arguing with people that think Whaley is a good gm. I think he's run of the mill -- good on defensive talent; lousy on the qb -- and also a bureaucratic infighter. He might be better at the player side of things than his predecessors, but that's not saying much. But if the team gets to 8-8 (the Bills real record last year if that Pats game had mattered at all), all of the sudden he's a great roster builder. I need to see a lot more than that before arriving at this conclusion. But this board features a lot of people who are inherently pro-management, so the conversation has predictably drifted to the point where it is now ("hard-headed" pro-Whaley folks snarking at the Jackson loyalists while also resorting to the cheapest trick in the book, blaming the media). Anyway, I thought it was a dumb decision to cut Jackson for more than one reason. I'll leave it at that. This sums up my views on Whaley quite nicely. I'll add: he's very green for a GM and still learning how to play well in the sandbox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Here is the entire timeline of events, big and small, that led to the abrupt releasing of Fred Jackson, M&T Bank not being communicated with, and football ops and administration not being consulted and told. 1. Karlos Williams was better than they thought. 2. Whaley and Rex and Roman talked about that. what happened to the cap stuff that was here (is here, in bring back fergy's post). did you realize that the cap hit could have been mitigated by talking to Jackson and his agent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyHorseAteTheKid Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Oldest RB in the league, past 3 seasons missed a lot of playing time due to injury and already missed most of training camp because of a hamstring... not to mention younger and less expensive RB's on the team.... FredEX was an awesome Buffalo Bill, loved the community and the city.... However once the team starts to win (and it will win) fans will stop pointing fingers and continue as they always have... It's the natural order of everything, a grieving period and then move on... Wishing y o u the Best, Mr. Jackson... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamK Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 even if this was true (it has since been refuted by PFT) or it did indeed come to fruition, the word in TC was Karlos played himself into the #2 spot. I do not think it would have been Fred starting in place of McCoy. He isn't fast enough, bottom line. I love him but he's not a workhorse RB anymore. Agreed, he's not a workhorse RB anymore, but will Karlos play week 1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Agreed, he's not a workhorse RB anymore, but will Karlos play week 1? he is supposed to, he is practicing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 The Bills are smarter than you think. They realized what could have happened in 2000 so they began putting board plants in after that, knowing eventually this situation would arise again and it would be very helpful to have board veterans 'towing' the company line. Which reminds me, has anyone else gotten time and a half this week?!? The OT is killing me! Might be time for a class-action wage lawsuit. Speak for yourself man. I'm flush with cash. Just made a BIG deposit. THANK YOU DOUG!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Russ takes this information to the Sr. Staff meeting and says something like, "there is a chance that Freddy wont be on the roster this upcoming year. Please try to steer clear of featuring him in promotional material. I am not saying that it is likely but it is better to be safe than sorry. OK, let's assume that scenario played out for a moment. And the marketing department convinced M&T to go with Watkins as its 2015 spokesperson, ending it's long relationship with Fred. You don't think there wouldn't have been blowback from the hubbub created by media bomb throwers like TG, Sully or Bucko? Or the Interweb trolls and second guessers who make moral outrage their reason for being? Why would M&T or any advertiser want to step in front of that bus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 what happened to the cap stuff that was here (is here, in bring back fergy's post). did you realize that the cap hit could have been mitigated by talking to Jackson and his agent? I think there were 15 reasons that ultimately he was traded and cap hit was one of the smaller ones. But the fact that Karlos was better than they thought and beat Fred out for #2 is really the reason. Or perhaps better said, if that didn't happen he never would have been released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 No. Read through his twitter feed (which I just did). Coaches, people in football ops, etc. means more than "some coaches." To be honest, I'm going to move on because I realize I'm arguing with people that think Whaley is a good gm. I think he's run of the mill -- good on defensive talent; lousy on the qb -- and also a bureaucratic infighter. He might be better at the player side of things than his predecessors, but that's not saying much. But if the team gets to 8-8 (the Bills real record last year if that Pats game had mattered at all), all of the sudden he's a great roster builder. I need to see a lot more than that before arriving at this conclusion. But this board features a lot of people who are inherently pro-management, so the conversation has predictably drifted to the point where it is now ("hard-headed" pro-Whaley folks snarking at the Jackson loyalists while also resorting to the cheapest trick in the book, blaming the media). Anyway, I thought it was a dumb decision to cut Jackson for more than one reason. I'll leave it at that. Agreed on Whaley, great post. Not as upset about Fred as others though, but I will miss him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 OK, let's assume that scenario played out for a moment. And the marketing department convinced M&T to go with Watkins as its 2015 spokesperson, ending it's long relationship with Fred. You don't think there wouldn't have been blowback from the hubbub created by media bomb throwers like TG, Sully or Bucko? Or the Interweb trolls and second guessers who make moral outrage their reason for being? Why would M&T or any advertiser want to step in front of that bus? A media guy would write a story like "Is the writing on the walls for Fred Jackson" and a group of interweb trolls would continue their jobs of bashing every media member who posts an opinion piece they disagree with. Same as always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 He was a great community guy who served the Bills well for 8 years...AND WAS WELL COMPENSATED DURING HIS TIME HERE. Now he is gone. Who cares if Whaley, Rex, or the Pegula's handled it in a way that YOU didn't like? Who cares if M&T Bank has idiots in their marketing department who would create an ad campaign revolving around an aging running camp and launch it before final cutdown day? Is every loss this season going to be blamed on FJ not being here? MAKE IT STOP!!! This is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 So, is Fred still going to be the M&T spokesman? Was he paid in advance for this year? Is there no opt-out clause in that contract that said the relationship would be dissolved if Fred were traded or waived? The bank has no other options at this point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorom Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 No. Read through his twitter feed (which I just did). Coaches, people in football ops, etc. means more than "some coaches." To be honest, I'm going to move on because I realize I'm arguing with people that think Whaley is a good gm. I think he's run of the mill -- good on defensive talent; lousy on the qb -- and also a bureaucratic infighter. He might be better at the player side of things than his predecessors, but that's not saying much. But if the team gets to 8-8 (the Bills real record last year if that Pats game had mattered at all), all of the sudden he's a great roster builder. I need to see a lot more than that before arriving at this conclusion. But this board features a lot of people who are inherently pro-management, so the conversation has predictably drifted to the point where it is now ("hard-headed" pro-Whaley folks snarking at the Jackson loyalists while also resorting to the cheapest trick in the book, blaming the media). Anyway, I thought it was a dumb decision to cut Jackson for more than one reason. I'll leave it at that. yes you are because Whaley is a very solid GM... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
negativo Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Professional sports teams have for years used plants to perform social media damage control and manipulate discussion. This is a fact. Longtime contributors on message boards, twitter and comment sections of newspapers are often hired and paid to post. If they leave the fold the account is transfered to someone else. It's not as "altruistic" as people want to believe. Those quickest to attack such realities as "insane" or "ridiculous" are either painfully naive or on the payroll. Sorry to have to burst the bubble folks, but read the members over time who seem to always be the most aggressive in defending the FO, and then form your own opinions. Santa, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy are as real as some of the member accounts on this and every other popular forum. It's costumed to look like genuine opinion, but behind the curtain you'll find the Wizard is a fraud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Speak for yourself man. I'm flush with cash. Just made a BIG deposit. THANK YOU DOUG!!! yes. I figured they'd pay you better than the last regime paid the jills. respect is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) The topic came up. It had to. And if you believe that it did, then the implication is that the FO LIED to M&T, and I'm not buying that. M&T wanted Jackson. They got him. Now they look dumb. Just to be clear that isn't what I am saying at all. All that I was saying is that the Bills didn't do what they are supposed. They either didnt communicate or didn't execute. These things are developed together. Edited September 2, 2015 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I feel bad for Fred I love everything the Bills have done this off season except cut Fred. You can not replace his heart and his will to win. Guys like Bryce Brown are a dime a dozen you can get them anytime in the rounds 3 thru 6 in next years draft. Or if your scouting is good like the Bills is maybe as a undrafted college free agent. This release of Jackson is a mistake no it won't cost the Bills wins or ruin the team but it takes away that special feeling the team had going on this summer. This team is poised to do something great this year and Fred Jackson is there leader you don't go into battle without your true leader. I know Fred would not have played a lot this year but for me his role would have been an important one of leadership and captain of this football team. For the life of me I can't understand how Rex and Doug don't understand this. Did you here what Fred said after he was cut he would have given anything to retire a Buffalo Bill. That means he would have taken a pay cut, maybe played special teams he would have done what ever it took. Here is a guy who led are team last year in rushing and receiving last year. He is are emotional leader and are community leader and the person who sets the right example of what a athlete should be. How is it the best team in football the last 3 years Seattle can see that and we can't. Yes I agree at this point in time Bryce Brown might be better at running the ball and faster. But Fred is better at Blocking and getting the extra yard and leading our team and our town and city and this region. It would be like the Yankees cutting Derrick Jeter. Yes his Skills have diminished and there might be a better younger player in the minors. SO the Bills should have gone to Fred and said that this is your last year with us make it a good one we want you to do out on top and play in a Bills Playoff game. Then have Fred announce it. I don't know why The Bills management and Terry and Kim Pegula can't understand this. How can the Bills look them selves in the mirror and think this is ok. I for one was ashamed to be a Bills fan yesterday. I am sad for Fred I wish him well. My my 2nd favorite team is Seattle because I love Russell Wilson and I wanted the Bills to Draft him. Having Marshawn helps too, now if Fred signs that will really be cool. Fred will protect Wilson on 3rd downs and spell Lynch and will also provide true leadership to a Superbowl winning team looking to go to a 3rd straight Super Bowl. I hope if the Bills do not win the SuperBowl this year that the Seahawks do so Fred can go out a winner. Fred deserves to be respected. This is something the Bills management failed to do when the released him yesterday. They tried to say the right things but I'm not buying it. Fred's release does not feel right. my eyes tell me that, my gut tells me that, and my heart tells me that. Will your heart and guts still tell you that if Jackson gets hurt again this year in Seattle? Then remember that if he was with the bills he is carrying a multi million dollar salary? I am in the Fred Jackson fan club.....but the injuries are mounting quick to go along with the age.....why cant people see that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Professional sports teams have for years used plants to perform social media damage control and manipulate discussion. This is a fact. Longtime contributors on message boards, twitter and comment sections of newspapers are often hired and paid to post. If they leave the fold the account is transfered to someone else. It's not as "altruistic" as people want to believe. Those quickest to attack such realities as "insane" or "ridiculous" are either painfully naive or on the payroll. Sorry to have to burst the bubble folks, but read the members over time who seem to always be the most aggressive in defending the FO, and then form your own opinions. Santa, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy are as real as some of the member accounts on this and every other popular forum. It's costumed to look like genuine opinion, but behind the curtain you'll find the Wizard is a fraud. And yet you come at some of us that have been very targeted in our criticism(s) of the front office and claim we're shills. Was I shilling when I ripped the Darby pick back in April? Was I shilling when I repeatedly blasted Marrone/Hacket's use of Sammy Watkins, or my disdain for the Kouandjio selection? To claim to have read certain members' posting history, and then have drawn such a conclusion means one of two things:(1) you're lying, or (2) you're incapable of deductive reasoning. Of course I suppose it could be both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) Just to be clear that isn't what I am saying at all. All that I was saying is that the Bills didn't do what they are supposed. They either did communicate or didn't execute. These things are developed together. But, you know that these things operate first and foremost on deadlines. So who blew theirs? But more importantly, did the Bills have one they could realistically honor? Edited September 2, 2015 by The Big Cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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