Last Guy on the Bench Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 No. Read through his twitter feed (which I just did). Coaches, people in football ops, etc. means more than "some coaches." To be honest, I'm going to move on because I realize I'm arguing with people that think Whaley is a good gm. I think he's run of the mill -- good on defensive talent; lousy on the qb -- and also a bureaucratic infighter. He might be better at the player side of things than his predecessors, but that's not saying much. But if the team gets to 8-8 (the Bills real record last year if that Pats game had mattered at all), all of the sudden he's a great roster builder. I need to see a lot more than that before arriving at this conclusion. But this board features a lot of people who are inherently pro-management, so the conversation has predictably drifted to the point where it is now ("hard-headed" pro-Whaley folks snarking at the Jackson loyalists while also resorting to the cheapest trick in the book, blaming the media). Anyway, I thought it was a dumb decision to cut Jackson for more than one reason. I'll leave it at that. I think there are more than the two sides you are painting. For example, I personally agree with you that it was a bad decision to cut Fred (also for lots of reasons), and in general I am fairly neutral wrt Whaley. I think he's made some good moves, but I don't think I have a complete enough picture of him (let alone a few winning seasons in the books) to really judge. And I am a bit troubled to see this kind of stuff rearing its head after we heard about similar discord with Marrone. However, I cannot believe that Whaley is cutting people without the general agreement of the coaching staff (or at least Rex). That would be insane. There might be disagreement within the coaching staff, but that would be normal. If Rex was either against this or uninformed about it, I would fire Whaley on the spot if I was Pegula. But I doubt that's what happened. I am definitely not pro-management in general, but I also know that egos exist on all sides. Fred is wounded. He spouts off (as many of us might) in probably not the most mature way, even thought it's understandable. If I remember correctly he was a bit publicly disgruntled a few years back around his contract negotiations as well (or am I totally making that up?). He's a prideful guy. Whaley may not have been 100% candid with him. But I wouldn't take Fred's version as gospel any more than I'd take Whaley's or anyone else's. To me it's a muddy picture made up of contradictory human beings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Dog Named Kelso Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 lol Story going national outside of the sports world. Way to go Tim! http://finance.yahoo.com/news/buffalo-bills-gm-accused-going-141518398.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
negativo Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Wait, wait...seriously? You're going on record here as saying that you believe that folks that think Whaley is a good GM are plants hired by the team to say this stuff on a message board? Thanks for that...I now know that I should never again take anything you post here seriously. Your faux "shock" that management has plants on the payroll doing social media damage control is charming and telling. Also, tossing in that little strawman qualifier of "thinking Whaley is a good GM" was a nice added touch. Whaley must be proud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) Wait, wait...seriously? You're going on record here as saying that you believe that folks that think Whaley is a good GM are plants hired by the team to say this stuff on a message board? Thanks for that...I now know that I should never again take anything you post here seriously. I really do think you're onto something here. yes, because there's absolutely no precedent for it: http://www.theguardian.com/environment/georgemonbiot/2011/feb/23/need-to-protect-internet-from-astroturfing. it would be the bills novel idea. "After I wrote about online astroturfing in December, I was contacted by a whistleblower. He was part of a commercial team employed to infest internet forums and comment threads on behalf of corporate clients, promoting their causes and arguing with anyone who opposed them." Edited September 2, 2015 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 lol Story going national outside of the sports world. Way to go Tim! http://finance.yahoo.com/news/buffalo-bills-gm-accused-going-141518398.html From the article: "in the grand scheme of things, the decision to cut Jackson without informing everyone in the organization is not huge. Again, Jackson is on the back end of his career and would have seen a diminished role in the offense." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 lol Story going national outside of the sports world. Way to go Tim! http://finance.yahoo.com/news/buffalo-bills-gm-accused-going-141518398.html And this is why it was totally irresponsible of Graham. This guy writes a national story with the conclusion that Rex Ryan was not told of the decision. That's insanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 lol Story going national outside of the sports world. Way to go Tim! http://finance.yahoo.com/news/buffalo-bills-gm-accused-going-141518398.html Pretty sad journalism: a player who made $17 million over 9 years gets cut early so he can make more money on another team and all we read about is some contrived conspiracy about a GM who made a tough decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 "Pro-management", "pro-Whaley" posters are doing the job they were hired to do. Social media damage control is all business, and after a classless move like unceremoniously dumping the face of the franchise against the coaches wishes you can bet they are in all-hands-on-deck mode.. Your faux "shock" that management has plants on the payroll doing social media damage control is charming and telling. Also, tossing in that little strawman qualifier of "thinking Whaley is a good GM" was a nice added touch. Whaley must be proud. See above, it was your wording, not mine. And again, I now know never to take you seriously. yes, because there's absolutely no precedent for it: http://www.theguardian.com/environment/georgemonbiot/2011/feb/23/need-to-protect-internet-from-astroturfing. it would be the bills novel idea. "After I wrote about online astroturfing in December, I was contacted by a whistleblower. He was part of a commercial team employed to infest internet forums and comment threads on behalf of corporate clients, promoting their causes and arguing with anyone who opposed them." Yes, PR firms hire people to flood message boards. This is true. However, I'd like to think that anyone that isn't 100% acluistic would click on poster's names and see how long they've been members of the boards, and then engage their brain in order to draw a conclusion as to whether they've been recently hired to shill. Then again, I'm always giving people too much credit for thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Now I'm pissed I haven't gotten my paycheck from OBD for being planted here. #dishonesty #rogue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Now I'm pissed I haven't gotten my paycheck from OBD for being planted here. #dishonesty #rogue That is a charming and telling strawman argument #yoloisashill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in Horseheads Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 lol Story going national outside of the sports world. Way to go Tim! http://finance.yahoo.com/news/buffalo-bills-gm-accused-going-141518398.html This is typical Buffalo News hacks. Bucky and Harrington had their feelings hurt because the Sabres didn't give them a personal audience at the end of the season. Sully has been pissed since he got blown off by Pegs about a new stadium. And Graham is Graham. They all hold a grudge because the Pegula family owns both teams and they won't lick TBN's boots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 What a weasel CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I Get it, I get it, Fred is one of the best Bills we have had here since the glory days & I get why Fred is pissed, but this is something the Pats do all the time ! They cut, waive, or trade players that have been with the team before they are completely useless to other teams to advance with younger players to keep the team relevant . Although it is a tough pill to swallow for all concerned i think it will prove that Whaley & company have the teams future best interest in mind . But only time will tell, and time heals all wounds !! Thanks Fred for all you have given to the Bills & Buffalo !! I will still be routing for you !!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in Horseheads Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Now I'm pissed I haven't gotten my paycheck from OBD for being planted here. #dishonesty #rogue I'm feeling pissed also, I pay then for their merchandise etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flmike Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 My take on "rogue" is that Whaley was the only one who really had a thing against Jackson. Who knows why that was. Could have been personal. FJ's remark suggests this. Whaley wanted to cut him preseason, but the Pegs seem to have nixed that. He finally wore them down and the owners went back into "owner mode" and signed off to cover him. As for age, he has fewer NFL carries than McCoy, who is 27. Fred is not a burner but he was still the best pass blocker and always fell forward for yardage, unlike our other backs (even with the crappy OL design last year). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 "Pro-management", "pro-Whaley" posters are doing the job they were hired to do. Social media damage control is all business, and after a classless move like unceremoniously dumping the face of the franchise against the coaches wishes you can bet they are in all-hands-on-deck mode.. yea, all the regulars that have been here longer than DW (or any other front office members) and specifically most of the rational guys that both agree with, and often call out the team on moves, are Doug whaley plants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 #roguegate timeline: 1)Whaley cuts Fred without telling anyone. He went rogue! 2)Actually he did clear it with the owner but not the coaches. Still rogue! 3) Actually it was only some of the coaches. Still kind of rogue. 4) Actually it was just the sales rep for M&T bank who didn't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
negativo Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Some people conveniently miss nuance - like quotes around words - as a strategy to advance their interests. Those whom they represent encourage these tactics to create false dichotomies that favor their narrative. Pretty sleazy stuff, yet fitting in a case such as this when the principle has acted in the sleaziest of fashions. See above, it was your wording, not mine. And again, I now know never to take you seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 yea, all the regulars that have been here longer than DW (or any other front office members) and specifically most of the rational guys that both agree with, and often call out the team on moves, are Doug whaley plants. Well...we can now add NoSaint to the list of shills Welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickedface Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 i'm surprised at the ferocity that the anti fred jackson crowd is reacting to this. i don't like the move, i think it makes the team weaker. i could understand if it was money and FJ wasn't willing to take a pay cut. or he could cut it on the field as a back up RB. or even if he wanted out because he wanted to be a starting RB or leave the team. he's allowed to be upset. Shady was the same way when he left PHI. it could be that whaley is taking all the heat for this even if he didn't make the choice on his own. it doesn't make sense to me to make all this noise about keeping him a couple months ago only to cut him now. weird. yeah he's 34, no i don't think he was going to play forever. i thought he might have had a year or 2 left. if brown was the reason for a lack of spots that is disappointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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