Green Lightning Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Um, the younger guys are better for the future of our team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uffalo Ills Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Fred was cut because he was expensive and there was no upside. That said I think it was the wrong move because even though he lacked upside and he hit his ceiling long ago, he was a damn good player and he proved his worth yesterday. He looked awesome on that run. Next they're gonna cut Easley even though he had a monster day by this logic. Smh gonna miss my favorite bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloed in Pa Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 13 fumbles in the last 3 seasons. That's a lot. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JackFr02.htm I said this before...got blasted for it. A lot more than Bryce. A lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 (edited) I said this before...got blasted for it. A lot more than Bryce. A lot. Bryce never plays. Because he sucks AND fumbles. Edited August 31, 2015 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 13 fumbles in the last 3 seasons. That's a lot. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JackFr02.htm But how many lost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Caveman Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Special teams, special teams and special teamsThis makes a ton of sense. As a side note, I've been watching hard knocks for the past 5 years or so and I don't remember a GM ever making this decision (he has a place at the table.) Seems much more likely that the coaches felt the need to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
negativo Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 Um, the younger guys are better for the future of our team? Um, not the ones who suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrod's Tailor Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 But how many lost? not many. but IMO the fact that the Bills usually recovered is beside the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I believe the decision to cut Freddy was Whaley's attempt to save face on his failed trade for Bryce Brown. I believe Whaley's ego got in the way of the best interests of the football team. I say Rex signed off on it because he had bigger fish to fry than backup RB, most notably starting the QB he brought in over Whaley's top pick EJ Manuel. It was a trade of sorts. Whaley gave up EJ, Rex caved on Freddy, and then they both made nice with Papa Terry. It is what it is, but the decision letting Freddy go to keep Bryce was an awful, pig-headed one. C'mon man- Whaley just wants to win. They've taken swings and have moved on from several moves that didn't pan out. There are still 2 or 3 rbs to be cut still Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Doesn't mean I'm happy about it, but I don't think it was a move to save face. I think the FO ultimately went with a younger & cheaper player in Brown over Fred. OR it's possible that neither Brown nor Fred makes the team, and they decided to release Fred first out of respect for him - i.e., he has a better chance of catching on elsewhere now vs. in the last cuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 (edited) 13 fumbles in the last 3 seasons. That's a lot. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JackFr02.htm It is. Some comparisons: last three seasons: Fred Jackson: 13 fumbles on 659 touches DeMarco Murray: 12 fumbles on 914 touches LeSean McCoy: 9 fumbles on 960 touches Arian Foster: 5 fumbles on 832 touches Marshawn Lynch: 13 fumbles on 992 touches Matt Forte: 6 fumbles on 1,023 touches Frank Gore: 8 fumbles on 844 touches La'Veon Bell (two seasons only): 1 fumble on 662 touches (3 more touches than Fred's 659) Edited August 31, 2015 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 This nonsense about Brown HAS to stop. They traded for/drafted a RB in the offseason. This notion that Brown is somehow a Whaley pet project needs to go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I said this before...got blasted for it. A lot more than Bryce. A lot. If you look at it in terms of fumbles lost per attempt (turnovers), it tells a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 But how many lost? Whether they're lost or not is a matter of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
negativo Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 It's nearly impossible to believe that Whaley trading for Brown had nothing to do with healthy Freddy being cut and injured, fumbling, soft, lost Brown being kept. Considering Rex has done nothing but bash Brown and say positive things about Freddy, it doesn't require a tinfoil hat to do the math here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Bryce never plays. Because he sucks AND fumbles. 5 fumbles on 263 touches. That's 1.90 percent of the time. Fred has fumbled at a rate of 1.97 percent of the time the past three seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Whether they're lost or not is a matter of luck. Not necessarily, there's something to be said for picking up your own fumble. But at the end of the day, I understand and agree with the decision. I just don't like to see the fans on here already besmirching Fredex because he was cut. It's ok to not dump on a guy that is no longer with the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heitz Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Um, the younger guys are better for the future of our team? Too simple, the real answer is that they cut him JUST to anger fans As has been said in about a million threads - it sucks. I LOVE Freddy. I bought his jersey last year. I've been saying for (far too many) years that the guy is the heart of the team. But this is the NFL, you don't win by keep fan favorite, old players. Sucks, but hey, so does life sometimes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 It's nearly impossible to believe that Whaley trading for Brown had nothing to do with healthy Freddy being cut and injured, fumbling, soft, lost Brown being kept. Considering Rex has done nothing but bash Brown and say positive things about Freddy, it doesn't require a tinfoil hat to do the math here. I cant believe I keep responding to your lunacy, but its a boring Monday. You do realize Freddy has been injured more, and has fumbled more, than Brown, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 It's nearly impossible to believe that Whaley trading for Brown had nothing to do with healthy Freddy being cut and injured, fumbling, soft, lost Brown being kept. Considering Rex has done nothing but bash Brown and say positive things about Freddy, it doesn't require a tinfoil hat to do the math here. So Whalley cut Freddy and kept Brown even through Rex likes Freddy and not Brown? Not buying it. Freddy was as good as gone when Rex was hired. Not sure why. But it was reported he was on the outs almost immediately. The Pegulas stepped in and asked Rex to keep Freddy and give him a chance in camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 5 fumbles on 263 touches. That's 1.90 percent of the time. Fred has fumbled at a rate of 1.97 percent of the time the past three seasons. What's his YPC? Oh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
negativo Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 I cant believe I keep responding to your lunacy, but its a boring Monday. You do realize Freddy has been injured more, and has fumbled more, than Brown, right? You do realize that Freddy is 100x better than Brown in every facet of the game, and his career proves it in spades, right? You have watched football at some point in your life, right? The real question is why I bother responding to you, junior. I don't intend to moving forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Not necessarily, there's something to be said for picking up your own fumble. But at the end of the day, I understand and agree with the decision. I just don't like to see the fans on here already besmirching Fredex because he was cut. It's ok to not dump on a guy that is no longer with the team. I agree, and I don't think he's a terrible fumbler. That said, he's not especially great at protecting the ball. His lifetime fumble rate is 1.69 percent - 27 fumbles on 1601 touches. Arian Foster has almost the exact same number of touches, and his rate is much lower: 0.93 percent (15 fumbles on 1618 touches). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsoldier54 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 You do realize that Freddy is 100x better than Brown in every facet of the game, and his career proves it in spades, right? You have watched football at some point in your life, right? The real question is why I bother responding to you, junior. I don't intend to moving forward. So you're saying that Freddie is faster and more explosive than Brown? Those are two facets of the game where Brown is clearly the better player. Freddie also gets hurt a lot and fumbles more than Brown does which also needs to be factored in. I love me some Freddie Jackson and hated this move,, but I completely understand why they did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Karlos Williams took his job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 It's nearly impossible to believe that Whaley trading for Brown had nothing to do with healthy Freddy being cut and injured, fumbling, soft, lost Brown being kept. Considering Rex has done nothing but bash Brown and say positive things about Freddy, it doesn't require a tinfoil hat to do the math here. I'm very upset that Freddie was cut. But if you believe this was solely Whaley's doing, and that Rex and Roman weren't on board, I think you need to get your head examined. I believe this was even discussed with the Pegula's before it was done. I can't understand how the Brown trade plays ANY part in this decision. That he is on the team, and can contribute, may play a part. You've been sipping way too much of the goofy juice, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 So you're saying that Freddie is faster and more explosive than Brown? Those are two facets of the game where Brown is clearly the better player. Freddie also gets hurt a lot and fumbles more than Brown does which also needs to be factored in. I love me some Freddie Jackson and hated this move,, but I completely understand why they did it. He really doesn't fumble "more" than Brown - their rates are almost identical the last three seasons, and over his career Jackson's rate is lower than Brown's. I do think that Brown is more prone to the "gaffe" fumble -- the big one in which he gets stripped midfield as opposed to fumbling it out of bounds or losing it at the end of a play only to fall on it. His fumbles for the Eagles were glaring, eyesore-type fumbles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 13 fumbles in the last 3 seasons. That's a lot. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JackFr02.htm Nfl.com has Freddy with 11 fumbles from rushing and receiving on 609 touches that's 1 fumble in 55.3 touches. Bryce has 5 fumbles on 263 touches that's 1 fumble in 52.5 touches. http://www.nfl.com/player/fredjackson/2506871/careerstats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
negativo Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 So you're saying that Freddie is faster and more explosive than Brown? Those are two facets of the game where Brown is clearly the better player. Freddie also gets hurt a lot and fumbles more than Brown does which also needs to be factored in. I love me some Freddie Jackson and hated this move,, but I completely understand why they did it. Freddy did not fumble games away, and the body of work for Fred is way beyond Bryce. Way beyond. The ability to run a faster 40 doesn't mean crap. Fred is a better running back. Fred breaks tackles, fred makes big plays, Fred has vision, great hands, great blocking, high football IQ, clutch play, a powerful leader, plays hurt, and has done it all over time. He has proven himself to be all the things you want in a back. Bryce Brown? WTF has he ever done but suck. He couldn't even make the active roster last year until we were decimated with injuries...because he sucked. CJ Spiller was faster and more explosive than Bryce Brown, and Freddy beat him out. You simply don't understand football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Nfl.com has Freddy with 11 fumbles from rushing and receiving on 609 touches that's 1 fumble in 55.3 touches. Bryce has 5 fumbles on 263 touches that's 1 fumble in 52.5 touches. http://www.nfl.com/player/fredjackson/2506871/careerstats Interesting. i thought they'd be getting it from the same source. I've always trusted PFR (it's a fantastic site), so I don't know who to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 5 fumbles on 263 touches. That's 1.90 percent of the time. Fred has fumbled at a rate of 1.97 percent of the time the past three seasons. Depends on the website you use and whether you count kick and punt returns. When using strictly running and receiving numbers(as bryce will not be returning kicks) see below. Nfl.com has Freddy with 11 fumbles from rushing and receiving on 609 touches that's 1 fumble in 55.3 touches. Bryce has 5 fumbles on 263 touches that's 1 fumble in 52.5 touches. http://www.nfl.com/player/fredjackson/2506871/careerstats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 So you're saying that Freddie is faster and more explosive than Brown? Those are two facets of the game where Brown is clearly the better player. Freddie also gets hurt a lot and fumbles more than Brown does which also needs to be factored in. I love me some Freddie Jackson and hated this move,, but I completely understand why they did it. TJ Graham was pretty fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Depends on the website you use and whether you count kick and punt returns. When using strictly running and receiving numbers(as bryce will not be returning kicks) see below. On the ESPN site, they have fumbles lost. In the past two seasons, they have him losing fumbling 6 times but losing zero. Of Bryce Brown's 5 fumbles, 4 were lost. Of the 23 fumbles listed in Fred's career, 11 were lost. There are fumbles and there are "fumbles." http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/10195/fred-jackson http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/15092/bryce-brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloed in Pa Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 On the ESPN site, they have fumbles lost. In the past two seasons, they have him losing fumbling 6 times but losing zero. Of Bryce Brown's 5 fumbles, 4 were lost. Of the 23 fumbles listed in Fred's career, 11 were lost. There are fumbles and there are "fumbles." http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/10195/fred-jackson http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/15092/bryce-brown It doesn`t matter anymore. So lets move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playman Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 without reading the previous posts: wrong decision!! sure he is " old " , but way better than bryce ever will be. his locker room presence will be seriously missed. and what about " keep our own " ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R2ITRich Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Throughout his entire career, Fred has been underrated. And that continues today... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 It doesn`t matter anymore. So lets move on. Doesn't matter to you. Speak for yourself; don't presume to speak for others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Freddy did not fumble games away, and the body of work for Fred is way beyond Bryce. Way beyond. The ability to run a faster 40 doesn't mean crap. Fred is a better running back. Fred breaks tackles, fred makes big plays, Fred has vision, great hands, great blocking, high football IQ, clutch play, a powerful leader, plays hurt, and has done it all over time. He has proven himself to be all the things you want in a back. Bryce Brown? WTF has he ever done but suck. He couldn't even make the active roster last year until we were decimated with injuries...because he sucked. CJ Spiller was faster and more explosive than Bryce Brown, and Freddy beat him out. You simply don't understand football. I really hate it when people write, "^this^." I've always found it kind of lazy. But, this whole development, and the ugly nature of the ensuing threads has just gotten me depressed. So,... ^this^ (All except for the part where you blast what's-his-name for not understanding football. I just have to ignore anyone who's happy about this development.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloed in Pa Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Doesn't matter to you. Speak for yourself; don't presume to speak for others. O.K. internet tough guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cocktosten Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Because the Bills always make the right move Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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