YoloinOhio Posted May 20, 2015 Author Share Posted May 20, 2015 Bingo. They've said everything in the past will be left in the past. im not trying to be obtuse, but the poster said "based on EJs previous performances" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribo Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 im not trying to be obtuse, but the poster said "based on EJs previous performances" Fair enough. I read it to mean that poster's own past observations cause him to lack confidence in EJ's ability to out perform the competition. The key I agree with in that statement is that where a guy was drafted, etc., won't factor into who wins this competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 im not trying to be obtuse, but the poster said "based on EJs previous performances" my point being that his previous performances have not been encouraging for those desiring to speculate on his future performances. isn't that how one usually calculates sports probabilities? perhaps the analytics dept will weigh in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted May 20, 2015 Author Share Posted May 20, 2015 my point being that his previous performances have not been encouraging for those desiring to speculate on his future performances. isn't that how one usually calculates sports probabilities? perhaps the analytics dept will weigh in here.i read it as "based on his previous performances" -- so asked if his good performances factor in. No analytics needed... Just a question. TT has 0 performances to speculate on future performances, and Cassell has as many poor previous performances as EJ.. So someone has to win out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 my point being that his previous performances have not been encouraging for those desiring to speculate on his future performances. isn't that how one usually calculates sports probabilities? perhaps the analytics dept will weigh in here. We're just sorta hoping for an improvement at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 I'm hoping both TT and EJ beat Cassell and the best man first from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 I'm hoping both TT and EJ beat Cassell and the best man first from there. Yes, the ideal scenario would be that Cassel is totally solid, yet there is no doubt from anyone watching that TT or EJ should start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 I'm hoping both TT and EJ beat Cassell and the best man first from there. I think that Cassel is the favorite to start, IMO. He's the only one that has shown that he can play at a playoff level at some point I his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Yes, the ideal scenario would be that Cassel is totally solid, yet there is no doubt from anyone watching that TT or EJ should start.The above is of course true. The thing is, there would be absolutely no talk of EJ being cut, etc. if the people who cover this sport for a living thought that he was any good. There are exceptions. Jim Miller seems to like EJ. And that is great. Many of the folks around here are Jet fans. I must tell you that none of them are the least bit worried about EJ and the truth is that there is little to no reason why they should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Cassel is the favorite to _start_ because he has so much experience in different training camp / systems. Veterans usually have that advantage unless system is designed for a specific skill set which the veteran does not have. I expect Roman/Rex to reevaluate the QB during the year. Many vets do fade and I believe Cassel will be one of them and then EJ or TT will suppliant Cassel; Cassel has not shown to be injury prone but he also is not as sturdy as a Roethlisberger or a Flacco. The key will be the quality of the offense staff in correcting the deficiencies in EJ's and TT's games. I do not think Cassel will change very much despite improvement of Alex Smith under Roman. And what the press and fans talk about should ignored by players and coaching staff because if they were that good and were willing to put in the amount of work coaching staff they would be coaching. Much of the press is baseless speculation and there are only a few who can evaluate QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribo Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I agree it'd be best for the Bills' future for either EJ or Tyrod to earn the starting job this summer. But I also agree it seems most likely Cassel has the edge going in because of his large advantage in experience. But that all worries me. Cassel is a different style QB than EJ/Tyrod. Cassel is not durable. How big of a deal is it if the new offense is designed, at least in part, to maximize Cassel's strengths, and then he goes out long-term with an injury? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 The above is of course true. The thing is, there would be absolutely no talk of EJ being cut, etc. if the people who cover this sport for a living thought that he was any good. There are exceptions. Jim Miller seems to like EJ. And that is great. Many of the folks around here are Jet fans. I must tell you that none of them are the least bit worried about EJ and the truth is that there is little to no reason why they should be. The "talk of EJ being cut" was a musing by one guy (Vic) supported by nothing coming out of the organization, that Joe B. then took and ran with. The bottom line is that we still don't know what EJ is or can be -- this summer is his chance to step up and as Bills fans we should be hoping he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 TJ Yates actually did win his playoff game by the way If I remember correctly he beat Cincinnati to clinch the playoff berth and then beat them again in the playoffs. That's true,I actually had forgotten that. The first of Dalton's annual playoff losses. They didn't go far, though. I remember watching the Ravens whip their butts and thinking "if they only had a QB they'd be going places" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) The above is of course true. The thing is, there would be absolutely no talk of EJ being cut, etc. if the people who cover this sport for a living thought that he was any good. There are exceptions. Jim Miller seems to like EJ. And that is great. Many of the folks around here are Jet fans. I must tell you that none of them are the least bit worried about EJ and the truth is that there is little to no reason why they should be. Group thinking isn’t always correct. The saying that “if somebody repeats the same thing over and over again that it eventually becomes the truth” should force one to really question the group think. Here are the QB ratings over last 14 games of 2 current Bills QBs… 100+ 3 90s 2 80s 3 below 80s 6 100+ 3 90s 1 80s 2 below 80s 9 This kind of exercise is important to strip away preconceptions. Yes, there are valid points to the group think regarding EJ Manuel’s long term future in the NFL, but I think that the current group think that “EJ’s a good guy but a bad QB with very little chance to make anything of himself in this league” is misleading because his stats actually say that there’s still potential for him. Isn’t Cassel looked at everywhere as being heads above the better QB than Manuel? Well these stats simply don’t line up with that notion. If anything, EJ's slightly better. With regards to Tyrod Taylor, I would think it’s awesome if he looks very impressive and beats out both Manuel and Cassel. I do think that’s a possibility. But since there are basically no stats on Taylor, I couldn’t include him in this exercise. Getting back to the point of QB preconceptions, could you imagine the national and local outrage if Greg Roman said that EJ Manuel was the starter like Chan Gailey did with Geno Smith? Yet, is Geno Smith really that much better than EJ Manuel to escape the derision? Of course he isn't...LOL But that's because of the constant and never ending group think bashing of EJ Manuel to the point where Geno Smith is seen everywhere as so much a better QB than him that Gailey's decision was a sound enough one. That's just so laughable to me. This offseason's group think bashing of Manuel has grown to ridiculous proportions. He simply wasn't as bad as he's been made out to be. Edited May 21, 2015 by 1billsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) The above is of course true. The thing is, there would be absolutely no talk of EJ being cut, etc. if the people who cover this sport for a living thought that he was any good. There are exceptions. Jim Miller seems to like EJ. And that is great. Many of the folks around here are Jet fans. I must tell you that none of them are the least bit worried about EJ and the truth is that there is little to no reason why they should be. Bill, do you really think actual football knowledge and football acumen factor into sports coverage at this time of year? IMO it's all talk to generate clicks: Glennon will be traded because, (Winston draft); Iggles will trade up for Mariota because (Kelly Oregon); Kaepernick on the block, because (?49ers in love with Blaine Gabbert), Bills in a panic over QB because (we say so). It all makes little sense to people with knowledge of the game of football and the teams in question. I must tell you I'm not too impressed the overall football acumen of the Jets fans I've met and there's little to no reason why I should be (heh!) The Jets fans should be worried about their own shop, with Chan "Gadget" Gailey running the O. On the other hand I may know a bad sampling, I can't exclude there might be football-smart Jets fans there somewhere. The fact is, EJ has had some good games, and he's had some bad games, like any rookie or QB who has played a rookie-like quantity of games. And like any rookie, he'll either improve and get the job, or he won't and we'll fall back on Cassel to bridge us to the next guy up, hopefully with one of the systems where he looked like a passable NFL QB instead of skunking up the joint. Edited May 21, 2015 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) Here are the QB ratings over last 14 games of 2 current Bills QBs… 100+ 3 90s 2 80s 3 below 80s 6 100+ 3 90s 1 80s 2 below 80s 9 This kind of exercise is important to strip away preconceptions. So for the record, I agree somewhat with those who think QB rating is a flawed rating. (BTW sure you noticed more than 14 games included for Cassel) . I don't like QBR either. But for the exercise here are Geno Smith last 14 games: 100+ 1 90s 2 80s 4 below 80s 7 Not really quite sure what this tells us. He's looked good at times, and brutal at times, like a number of young QB. At his best IMO he has looked "more better" than EJ for longer stretches. At his worst, he's been way worse than EJ at his worst - completion percentages of 33 or 25% Edited May 21, 2015 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Geno has had higher highs and lower lows than Eeeeeeeege. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Geno has had higher highs and lower lows than Eeeeeeeege. That is really true and really all there is to it. In my mind, and most NFL coaches minds, they worry more of mistakes than they celebrate good plays. Mark Sanchez throws a really nice ball and can make great plays, but he is so reckless with the ball that the end result is he's a crappy QB. I never want a guy like that on my team. That is why EJ was picked ahead of Geno and why he's probably still a better risk and QB. Geno throws a pretty pass. He can look great. But he makes WAY too many mistakes. Chances are they are not going to be reduced all that much. It's possible but unlikely. He doesn't seem to have the attitude or mental capacity to excel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Geno has had higher highs and lower lows than Eeeeeeeege. In other words he is completely inconsistant.......which is something you dont want in a QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted May 21, 2015 Author Share Posted May 21, 2015 That is really true and really all there is to it. In my mind, and most NFL coaches minds, they worry more of mistakes than they celebrate good plays. Mark Sanchez throws a really nice ball and can make great plays, but he is so reckless with the ball that the end result is he's a crappy QB. I never want a guy like that on my team. That is why EJ was picked ahead of Geno and why he's probably still a better risk and QB. Geno throws a pretty pass. He can look great. But he makes WAY too many mistakes. Chances are they are not going to be reduced all that much. It's possible but unlikely. He doesn't seem to have the attitude or mental capacity to excel.personally I think Geno has talent and throws a nice deep ball (watch out for Devin Smith) but he is inaccurate on most other throws and just doesn't seem to have it between the ears. I don't get handing him the job in May, and declaring him the unquestioned starter. He's the type who seems to need a fire lit as they have been waiting for the light bulb to go off. He has done nothing to earn the starting qb role. I think it's a function of Fitz's health and Petty inexperience but imo that just means they didn't bring in the right QBs in the offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts