jjmac Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Best Pure Runner-OJ Best All-purpose back-Thurman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 With OJ you have to forget what we learned later. Absolutley amazing and best I ever saw in a Bills uniform. Bruce is probably #2 overall with Thurman as the #2 RB. I'd love to see some Cookie highlights. I was too young to appreciate him, I guess. Those OJ highlights were great, and there's a lot more where that came from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 OJ best pure runner in the history of NFL football, I am hoping our new toy compares but he won't probably. Cookie, if Cookie would have lived in a better world at the time he would have been the legend that Jim Brown was, his personality and circumstances effed the guy over big time and cut his career short/made him play up north first. TT maybe tied with Cookie but not better than him Fred eff it, I love me some Fred The Bills have been really lucky even rich with RBs, so the list behind these 4 is actually more interesting than the topic at hand. Mcgahee Lynch Antwon Smith CJ (you just watch this year (evil laugh) Carlton (people be all like who?) Henry Cribbs Greg Bell Mini Max Kevin Davis FB list of it's own would make sense sort of too Braxton, Gash Here is list ranking them, I am sure there are more out there http://www.footballdb.com/teams/nfl/buffalo-bills/alltime-rushing The best pure runner is NFL history was far and away Jim Brown. If you saw him game after game, season after season you'd agree. No one compares. OJ was not that great his first couple years until the Electric Company arrived. Brown needed no help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) The best pure runner is NFL history was far and away Jim Brown. Amazing guy. 122 game career, never missed a start. At 232 pounds he was nearly as big as his lineman... Edited March 30, 2015 by Lurker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I started watching the Bills in '69 when OJ was drafted. An amazing athlete: sprinter's speed, elusiveness, tremendous vision, and oft overlooked power. He was a threat to go the distance on every play, regardless of the blocking. I love Thurman. But he played behind a great line and the Bills were loaded with offensive weapons in those days. When OJ played, the defensive game plan was always simply "Stop OJ" or more realistically, "Slow OJ down." Of course, back then the hash marks were spread further apart (which could pinch an offense against the sideline) and, if I recall correctly, offensive lineman weren't allowed to block with their hands. A lot of rule changes since then have helped offenses and of course defensive schemes these days key on the pass making it easier for backs like AP to pick up chunks of yards. I really don't think AP or the greats of the past like Dickerson, Payton, Sanders or any of those guys could compare with OJ in pure running ability. I've never seen Jim Brown play live though his highlight reels and stats are amazing. So I won't claim OJ was better than Brown. But I'm not sure how anyone who saw both Thurman and OJ play could vote for Thurman. OJ was on another level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Barry was taken out in goal line and short yardage, diminishing his greatness. Best skat back ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple haze Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 That's where I'd put him, though I never saw Cookie play so might defer to older fans on that one. Cribbs was an excellent back. Cribbs was the goods too. Contract squabble with Mr. Wilson chased him to the USFL. Even though he came back, it wasn't the same. But Cribbs was excellent. He was a version of Thurman Thomas in best years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) I can't believe anyone that knows a thing about football, could pick any of these guys over OJ. It's more like "Is OJ the greatest NFL back of all time?" As terrible of a person as he is, no other Bill, at any position, tops OJ. Greatest Bill Ever. Edited March 30, 2015 by HoF Watkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) I think thurman is #1 just because OJ was talented, but he clearly sucked later in his career. This was him falling off the cliff early due to overplay, but also due to not having an epic oline. He was basically demarco murray, good player, but legendary oline. Thurman didnt really have that. That might be an oversimplification, but, idk. Tinker Bell ought to be somewhere on this list. he was pretty good when healthy have his stats fall off the table late in his career, even more so than OJ?So, you say Thurman didn't have his stats fall off the table late in his career, even more so than OJ? Take another look. Thurm's YPC: 1988: 4.3 1989: 4.2 1990: 4.8 1991: 4.9 1992: 4.8 1993: 3.7 1994: 3.8 1995: 3.8 1996: 3.7. After that, they finally really cut back on his carries, all the way down to below 10 per game for the rest of his career, and he got better again but never had a year with more than 643 yards again. 1997:4.2 1998: 4.1 1999: 4.2 2000: 4.9 (28 carries and 136 yards w/ the Fins) Retirement. Oh, and Thurman's O-line for most of his career was terrific. I can't believe anyone that knows a thing about football, could pick any of these guys over OJ. It's more like "Is OJ the greatest NFL back of all time? As terrible of a person as he is, no other Bill, at any position, tops OJ. Greatest Bill Ever. Him or Bruce, I'd say. Edited March 30, 2015 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uffalo Ills Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 have his stats fall off the table late in his career, even more so than OJ?So, you say Thurman didn't have his stats fall off the table late in his career, even more so than OJ? Take another look. Oh, I'm not saying that at all. I'm just saying, when OJ was still reasonably within his prime, but wasnt playing behind the best Oline in the NFL, his stats were pretty mediocre. His game in general was less electrifying. Thurman was never immortal and his Oline certainly was great, but he neverhad a team specifically designed for him to play well. He was never the only good skill player on his team The best pure runner is NFL history was far and away Jim Brown. If you saw him game after game, season after season you'd agree. No one compares. OJ was not that great his first couple years until the Electric Company arrived. Brown needed no help. Exactly. OJ needed the Electric Company. We never got to see thurman without the great Oline he had except at the very end of his career, so there is no control group, but we certainly saw OJ without the guys trying to turn on the juice. He was elite, but not GOAT quality. Great pure Runner, but Thurman has an edge as an all around back. OJ had speed and elusiveness through the roof. He could run through linebackers without even touching them. Thurman more specialized in balance and stability. 2 completely different styles, so the best way to compare them is surrounding talent. The talent around OJ was on the OLine. The talent around Thomas were in skill positions. This means, while they didnt put 8 men in the box to stop thurman like they did for OJ, thurman got less carries, less attention, and therefore less yardage per season. Honestly Thurman Thomas couldve broken 2000 in a 16 game season (I know, I know OJ only got 14 games) with an OLine built to be the best run blocking unit in the NFL and with no QB/WRs to steal touches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Interesting you are one of the few to put McGahee inn there. He played in more games for the Bills than Gilchrist, more YPG and fewer fumbles. Never saw Cookie play, but putting modern RBs against guys from the 60-70's puts modern players at a disadvantage. As others point out, the running game has changed not just because "it's a passing league", but because the Dlines and LBs are faster and more athletic nowadays across the board. You don't have the same RBs (rare exceptions) dominating the top spots for rushing year after year anymore. On the flip side, because of the heavier emphasis on passing today, the field is more spread out - more space for RBs when they do run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Thurman. Period. This is a great thread! My view is that Thurman Thomas was a great player - Hall of Fame caliber. But, he played with MANY more weapons than Simpson did. As I said earlier, the only guys that I've actually seen play that could compare with Simpson were Dickerson, Earl Campbell and Barry Sanders. Based on records and highlights that I've seen, Jim Brown and Gayle Sayers were in that group, too. Finally, Walter Peyton probably belongs on that list, too. Everyone else was a notch below these guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I started watching the Bills in '69 when OJ was drafted. An amazing athlete: sprinter's speed, elusiveness, tremendous vision, and oft overlooked power. He was a threat to go the distance on every play, regardless of the blocking. I love Thurman. But he played behind a great line and the Bills were loaded with offensive weapons in those days. When OJ played, the defensive game plan was always simply "Stop OJ" or more realistically, "Slow OJ down." Of course, back then the hash marks were spread further apart (which could pinch an offense against the sideline) and, if I recall correctly, offensive lineman weren't allowed to block with their hands. A lot of rule changes since then have helped offenses and of course defensive schemes these days key on the pass making it easier for backs like AP to pick up chunks of yards. I really don't think AP or the greats of the past like Dickerson, Payton, Sanders or any of those guys could compare with OJ in pure running ability. I've never seen Jim Brown play live though his highlight reels and stats are amazing. So I won't claim OJ was better than Brown. But I'm not sure how anyone who saw both Thurman and OJ play could vote for Thurman. OJ was on another level. Well said... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 The notion that TT played behind an inferior OL to OJ's is misplaced. TT had the luxury of playing behind one of the greatest OLs in history from tackle to tackle. OJ had a great guard and another that was above average. Most importantly, TT benefitted from having 3 other HOFers at skill positions, especially at QB. If OJ played in the K-Gun with that surrounding cast, Emmit Smith would be in second place at the moment. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billykaykay Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Can't imagine that anyone who saw OJ play wouldn't pick him first. Not even close. Can any of you old timers remember OJ ever taking a big hit. He had such great vision that he always seemed to avoid hits. Also , I never saw a better runner on snow than this California boy. It's really too bad that he turned into a jerk. There are lots of stories around about his being a jerk while playing plus cocaine use/abuse while playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 while they didnt put 8 men in the box to stop thurman like they did for OJ And yet OJ still did what he did. IMO, there are only 4-5 RBs in NFL history that could overcome those odds week after week (Brown, OJ, Saunders, Sayers, Campbell). Aside from Joe D and Reggie, none of the Electric Company ever made a Pro Bowl, let alone All Pro. They were good NFL players, nothing more. To say that OJ needed the Electric Company is an overstatement, IMO. I love Thurman, but he wasn't OJ. Stats can't do justice to either guy, but consider the following from five year runs when they were in their prime: 1972-76, Simpson: 1,513 carries, 7,699 yards, 5.1 YPC, 45 rushing TDs, 98 receptions, 11.7 YPC, 9 receiving TDs 1989-93, Thomas: 1,524 carries, 6,750 yards, 4.4 YPC, 15 rushing TDs, 277 receptions, 10.3 YPC, 16 receiving TDs Yes, Thurman was a better receiver. But from 72-76, the Bills only averaged 18 pass attempts per game, vs. 29 from 89-93. I wonder what Simpson's receiving stats would have been if he played with Kelly (61% completion rate) rather than Shaw and Ferguson (51%). Oh well, thanks for the memories to both guys... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) Once you decapitate your wife, no one cares whether or not you could run with a football better than somebody else could run with a football. Many hardcore Bills fans do. Edited March 30, 2015 by CodeMonkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) Joe Cribbs at # 3? Yes...Cribbs at #4, behind Simpson, Gilchrist and Thomas. People always forget about Cribbs, or all they remember is him going to the USFL. He was a fantastic football player. The notion that TT played behind an inferior OL to OJ's is misplaced. TT had the luxury of playing behind one of the greatest OLs in history from tackle to tackle. OJ had a great guard and another that was above average. Most importantly, TT benefitted from having 3 other HOFers at skill positions, especially at QB. If OJ played in the K-Gun with that surrounding cast, Emmit Smith would be in second place at the moment. GO BILLS!!! Yep..they just didn't have a fun name like the "Electric Company" did. Make no mistake though, as great as Kelly, Thomas and Reed were, that O-line was a huge part of their success in the early 90's. Edited March 30, 2015 by Buftex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Jim Brown was probably the best RB of all time and OJ was probably second. Like others have stated, however great Thurman was, he is never in that conversation. With everyone knowing he was getting the ball, the Bills throwing about 10 passes a game, OJ averaged 6.2 YPC in 73. He caught 6 passes the entire year. He had IIRC 462 yards against one team, the Patriots that year (250 and 212?). You had to stop him, you knew he would get the ball, and you couldn't stop him. He was one of the best college players ever and one of the best pro players ever. His size and speed were ridiculous. OJ was clearly better than Thurman as a RB although Thurman was great. And the reason it took him a couple years was because John Rauch didn't know how to use him, and was an idiot, and less because he needed the Electric Company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I vividly recall watching the game where OJ broke 2000 (against the Jets in late '73). I was just about to turn 7, and I recall him being basically unstoppable. OJ's 2003 season is arguably the greatest season ever by an NFL running back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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