Not at the table Karlos Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 I seriously can't believe we traded Kiko when we could have traded woods instead. This totally ruins my view of the trade. I like woods, but he is hardly elite or really necessary given what we have at receiver. Basically could have traded a 40-catch guy instead of a star LB. Edit: from the article, it sounded like Rex made the final call on this. I think Whaley would know our own players better than Rex at this stage. Woods had one monster game last year and it was against the Jets-- gotta wonder if Rex's view is biased based on that game. I don't get the star linebacker part. Kiko was showing signs that he could become a great backer but other than a handful of games kiko was average. Yes he made a lot of tackles but that's not a good way to decide greatness. Pettine didn't really use him many different ways. Almost every play was fake a blitz and drop into coverage in the flat. Once teams figured this out he wasn't really heard from anymore. I would say he is a good linebacker that has good coverage skills but not a star. I think woods has a bigger impact on games than kiko did. Kiko had the best defensive line in the league in front of him. Woods has QBs that are described as "meh" and produces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkAF43 Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 (edited) I agree with this. I like Woods, but he is relatively expendable on a run-first team with 3 "star" receiving threats, plus McCoy. Of course, at the time of the trade, they had no idea they were going to land Harvin. If they knew that, it might've gone differently. I don't think so, I feel that without having Woods on the other side from Watkins allows teams to focus on Sammy more and shut him down, you need to have that solid #2 WR that makes other teams nervous to face. Even if the trade was made after we landed Harvin it doesn't change things much because Harvin has yet to really prove himself as much more than a gimmick player who can run jet sweeps, reverses etc. So for me I voted I'd rather trade Kiko, we saw what this team is and can be without him, and it was good. I don't want to see what an already weak offense would be if you take your #2 WR out of the mix. Edited March 25, 2015 by MarkAF43 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 (edited) simply the O needs WR Woods more than the D needed Kiko Edited March 25, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 (edited) This seems inconsistent with Chip Kelly's philosophy. He wants O line and a qb first and foremost and has never placed too much emphasis on WR's in the same way the Patriots don't care about running backs. If he cared that much they would have kept Maclin and signed Harvin. There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding of Kelly. I would have thought this would go away when he paid both Murray and Mathews (along with Sproles). He used a 2nd round pick on Jordan Matthews last year. He's not going out there with CFL RBs and WRs, he moved on from Jackson/Shady/Maclin because they weren't what he envisioned in those positions and from reports, they weren't thrilled with his methods regarding tough Saturday practices. Chip is a complete 180 from Andy Reid, it can be very difficult for guys who've had success with one mindset to completely buy into changing to a different mindset. Chip Kelly isn't some genius that's going to get 1,500 yards out of 7th round WRs and RBs, he's bringing in his guys. Edited March 25, 2015 by Chuck Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 I don't get the star linebacker part. Kiko was showing signs that he could become a great backer but other than a handful of games kiko was average. Yes he made a lot of tackles but that's not a good way to decide greatness. Pettine didn't really use him many different ways. Almost every play was fake a blitz and drop into coverage in the flat. Once teams figured this out he wasn't really heard from anymore. I would say he is a good linebacker that has good coverage skills but not a star. I think woods has a bigger impact on games than kiko did. Kiko had the best defensive line in the league in front of him. Woods has QBs that are described as "meh" and produces. I don't know, man. Kiko struck me as a star on the rise. Recall too how much Pettine glowed about him. Woods won't even be here after his contract expires; they can't allocate that much money to the WR position and I would expect Watkins to be the guy that is here long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 I'll take Woods all day, every day. He has much greater potential to impact a game positively for the Bills on a weekly basis. This trade is looking more and more like Chip was going to deal Shady no matter what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 I love how Chip asked for Kiko AND Woods initially. GTFO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir andrew Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Great Poll. Woods is the better player right now but I think Kiko has far more potential. Coming off ACL surgery clinches it though. Kiko. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not at the table Karlos Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 (edited) I don't know, man. Kiko struck me as a star on the rise. Recall too how much Pettine glowed about him. Woods won't even be here after his contract expires; they can't allocate that much money to the WR position and I would expect Watkins to be the guy that is here long term. there also can be the argument that kiko would have left after his rookie deal expired. I will miss Kiko's coverage ability tho Edited March 25, 2015 by kr632 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Tough call...I'd probably say Kiko, only because we've seen that they can still be a very, very good defense without him. An offense with very little firepower can ill-afford to lose it's second-biggest weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 (edited) Very tough. I think Woods might be more replaceable but I think Kiko got very overrated here and is coming off his second major knee injury. Tough call though. The answer is still Kiko because we need more offensive assets than defensive ones. ^^ Agree with both of these. That is a very tough call, but I understand wanting to keep the Offensive assets. And Woods is your ultra-reliable safety net at WR. Woods punched a safety from Miami his rookie year and got ejected. Not good. But I respect him for it all the same. Lol. This makes him even more valuable as a Bill, imo. Edited March 25, 2015 by DrDareustein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 there also can be the argument that kiko would have left after his rookie deal expired. I will miss Kiko's coverage ability tho No doubt. I could think the team could justify paying Kiko big bucks as a LB (so long as they don't break the bank on Bradham and Brown). But, there is almost no chance they could do the same for Woods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 No doubt. I could think the team could justify paying Kiko big bucks as a LB (so long as they don't break the bank on Bradham and Brown). But, there is almost no chance they could do the same for Woods. Why not? Who do we have a ton of money in on offense? Sammy will still be on his rookie deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 (edited) No doubt. I could think the team could justify paying Kiko big bucks as a LB (so long as they don't break the bank on Bradham and Brown). But, there is almost no chance they could do the same for Woods. Flat out disagree with that. He'll probably command around $4-5mil/yr as a #2 or #3 WR. That's not breaking the bank. edit: Oops, upon re-reading your post I now see you were talking about justifying paying either of them big bucks. In that case, I agree, paying Kiko big money is much more justifiable than paying Woods. But I dont think that point matters since I dont think Woods will command big money. Edited March 25, 2015 by DrDareustein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Would have traded Alonso and Woods plus a mid to low round pick for Shady and Foles Glad you arent our GM CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Would have traded Alonso and Woods plus a mid to low round pick for Shady and Foles Not happening from the Philly side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 (edited) Woods punched a safety from Miami his rookie year and got ejected. Not good. But I respect him for it all the same. Lol. I dont even remember that lol Did it not say we could have traded a pic for McCoy and no players? CBF Edited March 25, 2015 by Canadian Bills Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big C Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 I dont even remember that lol CBF It was particularly memorable because he swung at the guy's head, where of course he was wearing a helmet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 there also can be the argument that kiko would have left after his rookie deal expired. I will miss Kiko's coverage ability tho Kiko is a very good player, no question. Bottom line: our D was top 5 without him, and Woods is one of our better WR, at the time we had not yet signed Harvin. As far as after his rookie deal expired, if Buffalo is winning where would he rather be than right here, right now? I think, though, that this is a rare place where Overthecap is wrong, listing Kiko with 2 accrued seasons and 2 years left on his contract. I'm not sure how it affects his contract, but he spent last year on the "non football injury" list. I believe that means 1) he didn't get paid 2) it doesn't count as an accrued or credited season. I"m not sure what happens to a guy's contract in this circ. Here is one source I found with a good explanation: http://www.ninersnation.com/2014/4/4/5581336/breaking-down-the-nfl-collective-bargaining-agreements-definitions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Icymi @RyanTalbotBills: #Bills Could Have Sent Alonso, Woods, or Draft Picks to #Eagles for McCoy: http://t.co/U3FWHZlbbd#BillsMafia http://t.co/AF7HV1anGb I would be curious to see what draft picks it would have taken to get McCoy CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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