Ted William's frozen head Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Weighed it? What could they have done to it? The ball should be inflated to 13 lbs. of pressure. Pretty easy to measure that with a pressure gauge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) Oh Jesus Christ, they won by 38 points. They could have been using a marshmallow and this wouldn't have mattered. This is getting old and makes us look like jealous idiots. And for theove of God, enough with the asterisks askter the name Pats. It's childish, but more importantly MAKES NO SENSE. You're not questioning their name. If you want to use it after one of the Titles (should you mention one of those), it's still childish, but at lease it makes sense - if that's what you're going after. I agree almost 100% Steve, as I mentioned think this is much ado about nothing, just like last week. However , I love the asterisk thing. I have a ton of Pats fan friends, and I always include and drives them bat chit crazy ? Kinda fun! Edited January 19, 2015 by plenzmd1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filthymcnasty08 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 It still amazes me to the day how Brady doesn't run through progressions like a normal QB. Snap - primary target- throw. That is unlike ANY other QB playing this game. When you know it's a zone - Edelman. When you know its man - Gronk. etc. When you know the defense, there's no stopping a smurfy little sh-t on a 3-5 yard out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I haven't read a lot about this so please forgive my ignorance on it. But I did read that "several" balls were taken out of the game. If the several footballs were all Patriot footballs, and none of them from the Colts, doesn't it automatically mean the Cheatriots were cheating? Each team brings their own. This seems pretty specific: "Rule 2 of the official NFL rule book requires that each team make “12 primary balls available for testing” two hours and 15 minutes before kickoff. The home team must make 12 backup balls available, and the visiting team may bring another 12 backup balls for games to be played outdoors." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I haven't read a lot about this so please forgive my ignorance on it. But I did read that "several" balls were taken out of the game. If the several footballs were all Patriot footballs, and none of them from the Colts, doesn't it automatically mean the Cheatriots were cheating? Each team brings their own. The "several" is what is odd to me. I'm sure 1 or 2 come out a game and that's normal. Several makes it seem like a lot which is probably what jump started the investigation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Apparently there's a footage of some lackey on the Patriots' sideline intentionally deflating a ball that started this whole investigation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filthymcnasty08 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Apparently there's a footage of some lackey on the Patriots' sideline intentionally deflating a ball that started this whole investigation. Ohhhhh now that's the stuff!…..any links (non Peter Pan)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Sorry, just scrolled back down my facebook news feed and I was wrong. Victim of tricky social media headlines. UPROXX posted a video link earlier that said Patriots were being investigated for deflating balls and the picture was someone bent over on the sidelines doing something, but when you click on the link it just plays the video of when the refs stopped the game to switch the balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vark Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 So do we have to call them the Patriots** now? Or is there an easy symbol for a second offense? How about Patriots*2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Flutie Band Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Oh Jesus Christ, they won by 38 points. They could have been using a marshmallow and this wouldn't have mattered. This is getting old and makes us look like jealous idiots. And for the love of God, enough with the asterisks askter the name Pats. It's childish, but more importantly MAKES NO SENSE. You're not questioning their name. If you want to use it after one of the Titles (should you mention one of those), it's still childish, but at lease it makes sense - if that's what you're going after. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 The ball should be inflated to 13 lbs. of pressure. Pretty easy to measure that with a pressure gauge. Ah, I see. I was thinking of "weighing" in the usual manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Have Mike and Mike on in the background, not one mention of this yet. For the record, I believe this is much ado about nothing, but it is a story and has been confirmed by NFL it is being investigated and should be reported. Likely waiting to find out what the story is before diving in to a full discussion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Oh Jesus Christ, they won by 38 points. They could have been using a marshmallow and this wouldn't have mattered. This is getting old and makes us look like jealous idiots. And for theove of God, enough with the asterisks askter the name Pats. It's childish, but more importantly MAKES NO SENSE. You're not questioning their name. If you want to use it after one of the Titles (should you mention one of those), it's still childish, but at lease it makes sense - if that's what you're going after. yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Oh Jesus Christ, they won by 38 points. They could have been using a marshmallow and this wouldn't have mattered. This is getting old and makes us look like jealous idiots. And for theove of God, enough with the asterisks askter the name Pats. It's childish, but more importantly MAKES NO SENSE. You're not questioning their name. If you want to use it after one of the Titles (should you mention one of those), it's still childish, but at lease it makes sense - if that's what you're going after. Hey Steve... Whether the deflated balls directly or indirectly impacted the game on any level or its outcome has absolutely nothing to do with the crime here. You get that, right? If an NFL rule states a team's balls must be within a given PSI range, and it is then determined that NE was deliberately modifying balls to keep them OUTSIDE of that PSI range, they have broken the rule. HERE IS THE PROBLEM: how is it determined, exactly, that NE deliberately altered PSI levels in balls? Especially on a cold, wet night where pressure in the ball would lower due to physics, not the Patriots' code of ethics? How many balls were found to have low PSI? How low were they relative to accepted tolerances? How has this been handled in the past? I assume 1 ball is overlooked as an "aberration" or some such. What if 2 balls are found? 3? 5? How many do you need to find? Is there any accepted standard of review or precedent for this type of thing? Have rules been established to define what is a violation and what is not? For example, is there a rule in the NFL rulebook somewhere that says: "Keep the ball within this PSI range. If we find it is outside of that, we will remove the ball from play and replace with a new ball in a proper range" ??? Is that the "penalty" for violating the rule? Or is there a much more severe penalty that says "if we find 2 or more balls outside of proper PSI range, we will....what? Disqualify the offending team from the game? Suspend the HC for the next game played? What is the rule here, what is the standard of review, and what is the defined penalty. Without knowing these things, it's tough to have an intelligent conversation about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Likely waiting to find out what the story is before diving in to a full discussion They did bring it up for a quick 2 minute segment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterpan Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 It still amazes me to the day how Brady doesn't run through progressions like a normal QB. Snap - primary target- throw. That is unlike ANY other QB playing this game. When you know it's a zone - Edelman. When you know its man - Gronk. etc. When you know the defense, there's no stopping a smurfy little sh-t on a 3-5 yard out. Yep. its painfully obvious something is not right. Luck barely got the snap before having immediate pressure and all his receivers were blanketed. Meanwhile Brady looks like he doing a 7 on 7 walk through. This same stuff happens week after week after week. Its not that hard to defend a slant pass or a flat pass. There is obviously something fishy going on in NE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Would it be okay if you were playing poker with a guy who cheated on a few hands but won most of the pots he collected legitimately? Or a golfer who hits 50 good shots but cheated on his lie on a few of them? Hell no. He's a cheater. It's the worst thing you can be in a competition, especially for money. People who look for and take every single advantage they can within the rules are fierce competitors. People who look for that, AND take a bunch of advantages outside of the rules are scumbag cheaters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Was Eric Mangini spotted anywhere in the vicinity of the footballs with one of these ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) The ball should be inflated to 13 lbs. of pressure. Pretty easy to measure that with a pressure gauge. And who measures? How do we know they are using the gauge correctly? Did they leak 1 PSI of air out of the ball when they inserted it b/c they got a bad seal for 2 seconds until they got a good seal? Who makes the pressure gauge? Most are cheap junk. How do we know the accuracy of the gauge? What about the ambient air temperature at the time of measuring "suspect balls" during the game? They had been out and in use in like 40 degree weather. As temp drops, volume of air drops, and with lower volume comes lower pressure. What gas is used to inflate an NFL football for an NFL game? Normal environmental air!? Or are using something much more stable and predictable and less temperature sensitive, like nitrogen? I'm guessing the answer to all of the above is: "It's a circus act and no one, ever, has given thought to any of this." And for this reason NE will walk. Why? B/C "It's just too hard to prove intent and no on really gives a crap about ball pressure and there is no precedent for how to handle this and well...let's just sweep this under the rug." This is probably one reason why NE did this. They aren't dumb and they know it's a great rule to break...b/c you can get away with it. Edited January 19, 2015 by Stopthepain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Hey Steve... Whether the deflated balls directly or indirectly impacted the game on any level or its outcome has absolutely nothing to do with the crime here. You get that, right? If an NFL rule states a team's balls must be within a given PSI range, and it is then determined that NE was deliberately modifying balls to keep them OUTSIDE of that PSI range, they have broken the rule. HERE IS THE PROBLEM: how is it determined, exactly, that NE deliberately altered PSI levels in balls? Especially on a cold, wet night where pressure in the ball would lower due to physics, not the Patriots' code of ethics? How many balls were found to have low PSI? How low were they relative to accepted tolerances? How has this been handled in the past? I assume 1 ball is overlooked as an "aberration" or some such. What if 2 balls are found? 3? 5? How many do you need to find? Is there any accepted standard of review or precedent for this type of thing? Have rules been established to define what is a violation and what is not? For example, is there a rule in the NFL rulebook somewhere that says: "Keep the ball within this PSI range. If we find it is outside of that, we will remove the ball from play and replace with a new ball in a proper range" ??? Is that the "penalty" for violating the rule? Or is there a much more severe penalty that says "if we find 2 or more balls outside of proper PSI range, we will....what? Disqualify the offending team from the game? Suspend the HC for the next game played? What is the rule here, what is the standard of review, and what is the defined penalty. Without knowing these things, it's tough to have an intelligent conversation about this. Don't get me wrong, if they did in fact do this, there should be sanctions. But the vitriol for a team that is simply dominant, and the childish ways many of us discuss it, is unbelievable to me. And the thread about not watching the SB? I'm sorry, isn't the point of the SB to have the two best teams play each other? Can ANYONE argue that this won't be the case in two Sundays? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Buffalo Joe Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Would it be okay if you were playing poker with a guy who cheated on a few hands but won most of the pots he collected legitimately? Or a golfer who hits 50 good shots but cheated on his lie on a few of them? Hell no. He's a cheater. It's the worst thing you can be in a competition, especially for money. People who look for and take every single advantage they can within the rules are fierce competitors. People who look for that, AND take a bunch of advantages outside of the rules are scumbag cheaters. Bingo. I don't think anybody is denying that they're good. They're damn good. They really are two of the best QB and coach in the league. But they still cheated. Which is why I don't get why they feel the need to cheat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 im sick of the whole "they would have won anyway" or "oh well" attitude. This is just what they (apparently) got caught doing. God knows what goes on week-to-week for these advantages. People wonder why this team gathers misfits, botches draft picks, suffers giant injuries, yet still can get 1st round byes and win playoff games. Their home record also raises red flags IMO. you just watch and its all choreographed plays that seem to do the exact opposite of what the defense is going for. Last night it was at like a 95% clip. Nobody guesses right with that much efficiency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Flutie Band Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 im sick of the whole "they would have won anyway" or "oh well" attitude. This is just what they (apparently) got caught doing. God knows what goes on week-to-week for these advantages. People wonder why this team gathers misfits, botches draft picks, suffers giant injuries, yet still can get 1st round byes and win playoff games. Their home record also raises red flags IMO. you just watch and its all choreographed plays that seem to do the exact opposite of what the defense is going for. Last night it was at like a 95% clip. Nobody guesses right with that much efficiency. Wow that's weird that deflating a football would somehow give them all the Colts plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Has anyone thought that maybe the ball in question, that sparked this issue, was ........... simply defective and wasn't "out of spec" due to anything the Pats might have maliciously done? Wow that's weird that deflating a football would somehow give them all the Colts plays. Probably a fan of Muldar and Scully as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Oh Jesus Christ, they won by 38 points. They could have been using a marshmallow and this wouldn't have mattered. This is getting old and makes us look like jealous idiots. And for theove of God, enough with the asterisks askter the name Pats. It's childish, but more importantly MAKES NO SENSE. You're not questioning their name. If you want to use it after one of the Titles (should you mention one of those), it's still childish, but at lease it makes sense - if that's what you're going after. do you really think Bills fans are the only ones discussing this today? Btw I agree - the Pats could have played with soccer balls and still won. So it begs the question of why they felt the need to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Has anyone thought that maybe the ball in question, that sparked this issue, was ........... simply defective and wasn't "out of spec" due to anything the Pats might have maliciously done?There apparently were several. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/19/source-several-abnormal-balls-were-removed-from-colts-pats-game/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Don't get me wrong, if they did in fact do this, there should be sanctions. But the vitriol for a team that is simply dominant, and the childish ways many of us discuss it, is unbelievable to me. And the thread about not watching the SB? I'm sorry, isn't the point of the SB to have the two best teams play each other? Can ANYONE argue that this won't be the case in two Sundays? That is a different topic of conversation entirely. There are actually a number of opposing themes going in this thread right now. 1) The sore grapes thing you are hitting on 2) The actual "crime" discussing PSI levels in footballs 3) The whole radio thing in Brady's helmet, alternate frequencies that are not monitored, etc. 4) The old cheating scandal related to point 3. By the way, I am not necessarily sure the "2 obviously best teams" are playing in the SB. I would argue Baltimore easily could have and probably should have defeated the Patriots; wouldn't that make them better? Ditto for Green Bay. I think Baltimore would have easily defeated Indy. I would argue the "2 best" argument would lead to a SB (as it played out this year) among Green Bay and Baltimore! Of course, it didn't quite play out that way. But think about it: you replay the Seattle/GB game 5 more times and Seattle loses all 5 of them. It was just "their day" to luck out on many levels at critical junctions and win. It reminds me of Superbowl 25. We beat the Giants 8 out of 10 times, maybe 9. But the one game that was played resulted in us losing and most things going just the way the Giants needed them to go in order to win. Doesn't mean the better team won though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Wow this thread has 6 pages already??? The things people want to complain about smh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Flutie Band Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Look at the ball float in the air. I bet the Pats secretly filled the Colts balls with 10% helium to generate more in air hang time and interceptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) do you really think Bills fans are the only ones discussing this today? Btw I agree - the Pats could have played with soccer balls and still won. So it begs the question of why they felt the need to do it. I can tell you Bills fans are the k my ones who have this thread at 6+ pages already. Edited January 19, 2015 by Beef Jerky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Bingo. I don't think anybody is denying that they're good. They're damn good. They really are two of the best QB and coach in the league. But they still cheated. Which is why I don't get why they feel the need to cheat. Well in fairness, we don't know that they cheated but you present this as "case closed". Secondly, there are a TON of super-competitive people in the world who will do ANYTHING to win, including legal and illegal things. Read up on Lance Armstrong. What a piece of work....and unfortunately, quite common...and certainly not just in the sporting world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Wow this thread has 6 pages already??? The things people want to complain about smh. Three of the pages are posters like yourself complaining about complaining, which begets this one post is complaining about complaining about complaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Three of the pages are posters like yourself complaining about complaining, which begets this one post is complaining about complaining about complaining. Doubt it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 do you really think Bills fans are the only ones discussing this today? Btw I agree - the Pats could have played with soccer balls and still won. So it begs the question of why they felt the need to do it. If they actually did cheat, it is easy to figure out why. That is how they roll and I think there is more than enough ample evidence from the last cheating episode up there that Bill B. is the type of guy who will cheat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Buffalo Joe Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Well in fairness, we don't know that they cheated but you present this as "case closed". Secondly, there are a TON of super-competitive people in the world who will do ANYTHING to win, including legal and illegal things. Read up on Lance Armstrong. What a piece of work....and unfortunately, quite common...and certainly not just in the sporting world. Well they definitely have cheated atleast once in history. Possibly twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Flutie Band Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 But think about it: you replay the Seattle/GB game 5 more times and Seattle loses all 5 of them. Week 1 says "NO". You think they were a SEVEN POINT FAVORITE for a reason maybe? They play that game 5 times and GB is expected to win 1 maybe 2 of them. Do you know how odds work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 And who measures? How do we know they are using the gauge correctly? Did they leak 1 PSI of air out of the ball when they inserted it b/c they got a bad seal for 2 seconds until they got a good seal? Who makes the pressure gauge? Most are cheap junk. How do we know the accuracy of the gauge? What about the ambient air temperature at the time of measuring "suspect balls" during the game? They had been out and in use in like 40 degree weather. As temp drops, volume of air drops, and with lower volume comes lower pressure. What gas is used to inflate an NFL football for an NFL game? Normal environmental air!? Or are using something much more stable and predictable and less temperature sensitive, like nitrogen? I'm guessing the answer to all of the above is: "It's a circus act and no one, ever, has given thought to any of this." And for this reason NE will walk. Why? B/C "It's just too hard to prove intent and no on really gives a crap about ball pressure and there is no precedent for how to handle this and well...let's just sweep this under the rug." This is probably one reason why NE did this. They aren't dumb and they know it's a great rule to break...b/c you can get away with it. The NFL admits that 1 or 2 balls are taken out each game because of this. So they must have a way of measuring. The conflicting part of the Patriots* balls are that several were found to be under. And the NFL gives some leeway in terms of pressure saying the pressure needs to be between 12.5 and 13.5 PSI, which they measure before the game. Sure, how they are measured could be faulty but it was about the same temperature in Seattle and no mention of ball problems there. Plus, I would hardly call 50 degrees "cold" in terms of NFL games. I'd also add, if the refs noticed by feel that they were deflauted, they must have been fairly low on pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Wow this thread has 6 pages already??? The things people want to complain about smh. It's interesting how different people are...different. You seem to be suggesting this is a nonsense story and would prefer, I guess, arguing over which middling QB we should pick up in the off-season, in the 107,456 thread on the topic. Whereas I find this story absolutely fascinating. For some reason, I don't think of deliberate, pre-meditated cheating in team sports, largely (I guess) b/c it is kind of hard to cheat. You can only cheat in small ways for the most part that probably add up to a minimal impact on the outcome of the game. I don't know...is there a rule on spikes on shoes? Can they only be a certain length? Could you get slightly better footing on the right kind of field condition if your spikes are 3 mm longer than that? Who knows. If the people who are accustomed to checking ball PSI during games think soothing is out of line here, and conclude something was up, I find that fascinating and do not think it is severe to remove Bill B. immediately from the Patriots so he can't help in game preparation...and he should be banned from the stadium on SB game day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 There apparently were several. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/19/source-several-abnormal-balls-were-removed-from-colts-pats-game/ Bad batch then? Maybe I don't get the uproar involved in this. Apparently, the league measures the balls prior to gametime to ensure they meet pressure spec and then entrusts a NFL attendant to preside over them during the game. Are people suggesting that the Pats found a way to deflate the balls (for whatever value they felt that might have provided) without anyone noticing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Well they definitely have cheated atleast once in history. Possibly twice. Yes, which tells you all you need to know about why they would potentially modify the air pressure yesterday. Cheater's gonna cheat, basically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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