NY Nole Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Every scout I have ever spoken too (which is a lot). Every game I watched at Stanford. Every game I've seen Winston play (though to be fair I only saw luck live, never Winston). Numbers aren't what scouts judge QBs on -- at least not in a vaccum -- and Luck was known to be a slam dunk, can't miss prospect. Winston is NOT a cant miss prospect -- even if his off the field issues weren't issues. Agree to disagree then - I have seen Winston multiple times in person and he is a physically imposing presence. He takes control of teams in a vocal way, and is a proven winner. Without Winston, the Seminoles would not have won nearly as many games as they have and would certainly not be competing for their second national title. I did like Luck coming out of school because he was clearly the reason Stanford was never out of games. Winston in my opinion has shown much more of that intangible than Luck to this point in their careers. I don't know any scouts or team officials but there is zero chance an NFL team doesn't draft this kid very high if they believe he has a chance to win them a lot of games regardless of the off field nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Agree to disagree then - I have seen Winston multiple times in person and he is a physically imposing presence. He takes control of teams in a vocal way, and is a proven winner. Without Winston, the Seminoles would not have won nearly as many games as they have and would certainly not be competing for their second national title. I did like Luck coming out of school because he was clearly the reason Stanford was never out of games. Winston in my opinion has shown much more of that intangible than Luck to this point in their careers. I don't know any scouts or team officials but there is zero chance an NFL team doesn't draft this kid very high if they believe he has a chance to win them a lot of games regardless of the off field nonsense. How can you say that when Winston and FSU have far better talent than Luck ever had at Stanford. You forget how bad Stanford was before Luck. Lucks intangibles are off the chart. He has a photographic memory, has an NFL QB lineage, and is as big and strong as Winston (in fact he's bigger) and has much more touch and the ability to throw with guys all over him. Winston has a rocket, has wheels, but neither are as good as Lucks tools. Saying this for discussion not argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 A few places ranking QB prospects all-time: http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/mel-kiper-top-10-all-time-qb-prospects-1910851/ http://www.lostlettermen.com/article/10-18-2011-top-10-qb-prospects Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 A few places ranking QB prospects all-time: http://slumz.boxden....spects-1910851/ http://www.lostlette...10-qb-prospects Interesting. Actual scouting reports at the time had Elway rated as the top prospect in history to that point; higher than Taylor, higher than Munoz, higher than anybody at any position ever. Luck was the second highest rated QB in history next to Elway. Now, I haven't seen any reports from within the community yet, but I will guarantee that no QB in this draft will be rated anywhere near as high as Luck coming out. Just some word of mouth info indicates to me that there are questions and concerns surrounding every QB in this draft. A far cry from the slam dunk that Luck was coming out. In other words, Winston or Mariotta would have to be Elway-good to surpass Luck as a prospect. I don't think so. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 A few places ranking QB prospects all-time: http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/mel-kiper-top-10-all-time-qb-prospects-1910851/ http://www.lostlettermen.com/article/10-18-2011-top-10-qb-prospects That was interesting, and it goes to show how hard this is. There were some real clunkers on both lists. I have a son at FSU and have seen most of Winston's games including some in person. I love his tools (and hate his antics), but he's no Andrew Luck. He could turn out to be the better pro. It's almost impossible to predict, but even without the goofy behavior Luck is a step above, in my mind, at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 That was interesting, and it goes to show how hard this is. There were some real clunkers on both lists. I have a son at FSU and have seen most of Winston's games including some in person. I love his tools (and hate his antics), but he's no Andrew Luck. He could turn out to be the better pro. It's almost impossible to predict, but even without the goofy behavior Luck is a step above, in my mind, at least. Really? Why? How can you say that when Winston and FSU have far better talent than Luck ever had at Stanford. You forget how bad Stanford was before Luck. Lucks intangibles are off the chart. He has a photographic memory, has an NFL QB lineage, and is as big and strong as Winston (in fact he's bigger) and has much more touch and the ability to throw with guys all over him. Winston has a rocket, has wheels, but neither are as good as Lucks tools. Saying this for discussion not argument. Really? Look at both rosters and see how many former Stanford/FSU players are NFL today from their respective teams. Remember Jameis is a National Champion and Heisman winner. Luck has neither Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voodoo poonani Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Dungy: Mariota is 'Rodgers in the waiting' Rodgers was completely overhauled by Mike McCarthy from mechanics to understanding what defenses are doing. If we do get somebody it will still take time. Perhaps more than another warm body we need a QB whisperer. Someone to break our guys down and rebuild them. Brees, Manning, Brady, Rodgers are always working/training in very structured programs. They don't just work out or watch film, they rebuild themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 (edited) Have you noticed there hasn't been a QB on the level of a Manning, Brady or Rodgers come out of the draft in like 10 years? Luck is the closest but he's not there yet. I think they stopped making them. Edited December 16, 2014 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFFacet Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 (edited) @Rotoworld_Draft: Kiper doesn't see a franchise QB in '15 draft http://t.co/AMEOhHIqRw Does have Mariota #1 on big board which just means that is where he thinks he will be picked. Jameis is 6. That's not what that means. A "big board" is a list ordered by overall prospect grade. Being #1 on a big board means that the creator of the list thinks that prospect is the #1 prospect in the draft class. It does not necessarily mean that he thinks he will be picked 1st. A list that attempts to guess the draft order is known as a "mock draft." Really? Look at both rosters and see how many former Stanford/FSU players are NFL today from their respective teams. Remember Jameis is a National Champion and Heisman winner. Luck has neither National Championship = Team Accolade. Heisman Trophy = meaningless award that has not translated into anything at the NFL level in recent memory. Also you can't just look at the FSU/Stanford drafted players. The strength of the roster from top to bottom matters. Edited December 16, 2014 by SoFFacet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessAccepted Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Mariota is a winner. The kid will have a long and successful career in the NFL. He reminds me a lot of Russell Wilson in terms of temperament and attitude. As Bill Tobin famously said “Who the hell is Mel Kiper?!, Mel Kiper has no more credentials to do what he’s doing than my neighbor, and my neighbor’s a postman.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Mariota is a winner. The kid will have a long and successful career in the NFL. He reminds me a lot of Russell Wilson in terms of temperament and attitude. As Bill Tobin famously said “Who the hell is Mel Kiper?!, Mel Kiper has no more credentials to do what he’s doing than my neighbor, and my neighbor’s a postman.” mariota will be successful in the NFL. as far as Kiper goes, he sticks his neck out earlier and more often than most. there isn't anyone not employed by an NFL team who consistently nails the draft. they all have hits and misses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 (edited) A few places ranking QB prospects all-time: http://slumz.boxden....spects-1910851/ http://www.lostlette...10-qb-prospects Great read. I was looking the other day for Jim Kelly's scouting report prior to the draft but couldnt find anything I'm also surprised that Marino wasnt on the list CBF Edited December 16, 2014 by Canadian Bills Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 16, 2014 Author Share Posted December 16, 2014 (edited) Have you noticed there hasn't been a QB on the level of a Manning, Brady or Rodgers come out of the draft in like 10 years? Luck is the closest but he's not there yet. I think they stopped making them. spread offenses are taking over. Connor Cook at MSU is your prototypical 6'4 drop back passer with mobility but runs a pro-style offense. There aren't many like that in college at the bigger programs. Edited December 16, 2014 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 16, 2014 Author Share Posted December 16, 2014 Pete Thamel @SIPeteThamel 3m3 minutes ago Here's @SI_PeterKing with a thoughtful and well-researched breakdown of Mariota through the NFL's eyes. http://mmqb.si.com/2014/12/16/marcus-mariota-2015-nfl-draft-prospects/ … Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Really? Look at both rosters and see how many former Stanford/FSU players are NFL today from their respective teams. Remember Jameis is a National Champion and Heisman winner. Luck has neither That's silly. Florida State can, and does, recruit far better talent than Stanford does now or did when Luck was there. Academic standards alone are the reason why. Jameis has played with 4 and 5 star recruits from top to bottom throughout his career. Stanford had some good players with Luck (mainly up front) but their defense and skill players couldn't hold a candle to the athletes FSU redshirts each year, let alone who's on the field. Luck's success (along with Harbaugh's) brought in better caliber recruits to Stanford than ever before -- but they still can't hold a candle to the athletes FSU gets. To say otherwise is just false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 That's not what that means. A "big board" is a list ordered by overall prospect grade. Being #1 on a big board means that the creator of the list thinks that prospect is the #1 prospect in the draft class. It does not necessarily mean that he thinks he will be picked 1st. A list that attempts to guess the draft order is known as a "mock draft." National Championship = Team Accolade. Heisman Trophy = meaningless award that has not translated into anything at the NFL level in recent memory. Also you can't just look at the FSU/Stanford drafted players. The strength of the roster from top to bottom matters. They spoke of talent on rosters and both teams were comparable. Heisman=meaningless award, then why all the hype for Johnny Football, Tim Tebow, etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 They spoke of talent on rosters and both teams were comparable. Both teams are NOT comparable, nor are their rosters. FSU recruits far better than Stanford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 That's silly. Florida State can, and does, recruit far better talent than Stanford does now or did when Luck was there. Academic standards alone are the reason why. Jameis has played with 4 and 5 star recruits from top to bottom throughout his career. Stanford had some good players with Luck (mainly up front) but their defense and skill players couldn't hold a candle to the athletes FSU redshirts each year, let alone who's on the field. Luck's success (along with Harbaugh's) brought in better caliber recruits to Stanford than ever before -- but they still can't hold a candle to the athletes FSU gets. To say otherwise is just false. Go look at roster when Luck played at Stanford and see how many of those players are in the NFL and contributing on current rosters as opposed to Jameis Winston then will see who's silly. Both teams are NOT comparable, nor are their rosters. FSU recruits far better than Stanford. A recruit does not make a NFL player! There are many top recruits coming out of HS that never made/make it to NFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Go look at roster when Luck played at Stanford and see how many of those players are in the NFL and contributing on current rosters as opposed to Jameis Winston then will see who's silly. You still would be the silly one. Do your own homework. I'm very familiar with who was on those Stanford teams and who has been on FSU. FSU recruits far better talent. It's not even debatable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 You still would be the silly one. Do your own homework. I'm very familiar with who was on those Stanford teams and who has been on FSU. FSU recruits far better talent. It's not even debatable. That's your opinion. I believe Stanford(when Luck played) has more players in the NFL contributing on current rosters than FSU(during Winston tenure). We can debate that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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