Deranged Rhino Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 That's your opinion. I believe Stanford(when Luck played) has more players in the NFL contributing on current rosters than FSU(during Winston tenure). We can debate that It's not an opinion, it's fact. NFL draftees is a pointless debate (and also incomplete as Winston is still playing as are his teammates) as it does nothing to assess the overall talent of the rosters. From top to bottom, all 85 scholarship players, FSU has far better talent. They have less obstacles towards recruiting simply due to academics -- and the fact FSU is a heritage program. You're 100% incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 16, 2014 Author Share Posted December 16, 2014 (edited) That's your opinion. I believe Stanford(when Luck played) has more players in the NFL contributing on current rosters than FSU(during Winston tenure). We can debate that wouldnt that be because Luck played for 4 years 2008-2011 and we are 3 years removed, and Winston has one year of play (2013) in which there was the possibility of anyone from that team being in the NFL at this point? Edited December 16, 2014 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 wouldnt that be because Luck played for 4 years 2008-2011 and we are 3 years removed, and Winston has one year of play in which there was the possibility of anyone from that team being in the nfl? Shh... don't use logic. Skycap relies on feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Greg, I think you are right about Stanford in the Luck years, but they are recruiting better athletes these days, especially on defense. FSU might have a few more 4 and 5 star guys, but Stanford is very talented, despite this year's record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 16, 2014 Author Share Posted December 16, 2014 @korkedbats: Marcus Mariota presented the Top Ten on @Letterman last night. It was hilarious. Watch: http://t.co/p2wE4uFIFK http://t.co/GCBH11Saqz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Greg, I think you are right about Stanford in the Luck years, but they are recruiting better athletes these days, especially on defense. FSU might have a few more 4 and 5 star guys, but Stanford is very talented, despite this year's record. No question they're recruiting better, largely because of the impact Luck had while there. He turned them into a winning team in an ever improving conference. The PAC-12 is competitive, equal to the ACC (if not better), but Stanford has to recruit differently because of their academic standards. Still, college football is about depth. The guys riding the pine at FSU are all four and five star guys (the 3 star/walk on being the extreme outlier) -- the guys riding the pine at Stanford (especially during Luck's career) were D1A guys, or Ivy league guys that chose Stanford over a school back east. There's just no debate that FSU's total roster is far better talent wise than the total roster of Stanford's. That makes a huge difference in terms of judging a QB's intangibles (which is where this debate about the relative roster strengths began). Luck did more with less than Winston has. That doesn't mean Winston is bad, just that Luck was (and is) much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Luck did more with less than Winston has. That doesn't mean Winston is bad, just that Luck was (and is) much better. Yikes, what does that say about EJ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 @korkedbats: Marcus Mariota presented the Top Ten on @Letterman last night. It was hilarious. Watch: http://t.co/p2wE4uFIFK http://t.co/GCBH11Saqz Awesome. Joking on the NY teams might backfire if the jets draft him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 It's really not even debatable. There are recruiting class rankings that come out each year. Obviously, some guys out play their ranking and others don't. It's like the draft but for the most part they hold pretty true. http://sports.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/teamrank/2015/all/all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 It's really not even debatable. There are recruiting class rankings that come out each year. Obviously, some guys out play their ranking and others don't. It's like the draft but for the most part they hold pretty true. http://sports.yahoo....nk/2015/all/all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Not really true. Mariota is a fantastic passer and the "system" he's in is the exact same system that Chip Kelly has made successful in the NFL. Mariota is going to be a great pro. Outside of his obvious talents, he's extremely studious and a cerebral player. He loves the game and doesn't bring any baggage, emotional or mechanical. I wouldn't say he'll be a better pro than Luck (Luck and Mariota are 2 of the best players I've ever had the pleasure of watching live) but he'll be a successful pro. IMO Mariota will be like Russell Wilson where he'll play mistake free football and be extremely efficient as opposed to someone who throws for 350 yards per game. I watched him against UCLA and thought he was very accurate. I was impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 They spoke of talent on rosters and both teams were comparable. Heisman=meaningless award, then why all the hype for Johnny Football, Tim Tebow, etc? Heisman is very meaningless when it comes to NFL success. Chris Weinke, Eric Crouch, Jason White, Matt Leinhart, and Troy Smith are all recent QBs who won the Heisman and did less than nothing in the NFL. All the hype for JFF and Tebow comes from college success. Where is the Tebow hype now? The eight Heisman winners who went on to have Hall of Fame NFL careers: Doak Walker, Paul Hornung, Roger Staubach, O.J. Simpson, Tony Dorsett, Earl Campbell, Marcus Allen and Barry Sanders. 1 QB in the whole list. It might actually be the kiss of death for a qb to win it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Heisman is very meaningless when it comes to NFL success. Chris Weinke, Eric Crouch, Jason White, Matt Leinhart, and Troy Smith are all recent QBs who won the Heisman and did less than nothing in the NFL. All the hype for JFF and Tebow comes from college success. Where is the Tebow hype now? The eight Heisman winners who went on to have Hall of Fame NFL careers: Doak Walker, Paul Hornung, Roger Staubach, O.J. Simpson, Tony Dorsett, Earl Campbell, Marcus Allen and Barry Sanders. 1 QB in the whole list. It might actually be the kiss of death for a qb to win it! Kinda like the Madden Curse! CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Roll the dice. Johnny Unitas got cut in his first NFL camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 (edited) Heisman is very meaningless when it comes to NFL success. Chris Weinke, Eric Crouch, Jason White, Matt Leinhart, and Troy Smith are all recent QBs who won the Heisman and did less than nothing in the NFL. All the hype for JFF and Tebow comes from college success. Where is the Tebow hype now? The eight Heisman winners who went on to have Hall of Fame NFL careers: Doak Walker, Paul Hornung, Roger Staubach, O.J. Simpson, Tony Dorsett, Earl Campbell, Marcus Allen and Barry Sanders. 1 QB in the whole list. It might actually be the kiss of death for a qb to win it! Cam seems to be fairing well thus far. Not a HOF type of career, but good at least. And on the flipside you have RGIII. Edited December 16, 2014 by H2o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Greggy said Luck did more with less than Winston and I disagreed. Luck had talent on the roster when he played at Stanford, maybe more than Jameis had/has. Offensively and defensively. Look it up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Greggy said Luck did more with less than Winston and I disagreed. Luck had talent on the roster when he played at Stanford, maybe more than Jameis had/has. Offensively and defensively. Look it up! We have. You're wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Greggy said Luck did more with less than Winston and I disagreed. Luck had talent on the roster when he played at Stanford, maybe more than Jameis had/has. Offensively and defensively. Look it up! He did have some talent but never anywhere near what Jameis had. The Recruiting grades are there (I posted them earlier). I didn't go through and total the stars for each program but it's not all that close. While Stanford may have some talent it's never the same as Alabama, FSU, OSU, etc.. They recruit like a BC type of program. BC was a top 2 team at one point when they had Matt Ryan. It's no disrespect to Stanford but certain programs just have more talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Greggy said Luck did more with less than Winston and I disagreed. Luck had talent on the roster when he played at Stanford, maybe more than Jameis had/has. Offensively and defensively. Look it up! Here I did it for the lazy. Stanford drafted players FSU Drafted Players Jameis has a very small window of which to draw from being as it is just last year. He had 1 first rounder, 2 second rounders, 1 3rd rounder, 2 4th rounders, and a 5th rounder. Since entering the league 3 drafts ago Stanford (outside of Luck) has had 1 first rounder, 4 2nd rounders, 0 3rd rounders, 2 4th rounders, 3 5th rounders, 1 6th rounder, and 1 7th rounder. So for those of you playing at home.... In 2 more years Stanford has produced the same number of 1st rounders, 2 more second rounders, 1 less 3rd rounder, same 4th rounders, 2 more 5th rounders, 1 more 6th rounder, and 1 more 7th rounder. I don't think your argument is holding up skycap... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 16, 2014 Author Share Posted December 16, 2014 (edited) Heisman is very meaningless when it comes to NFL success. Chris Weinke, Eric Crouch, Jason White, Matt Leinhart, and Troy Smith are all recent QBs who won the Heisman and did less than nothing in the NFL. All the hype for JFF and Tebow comes from college success. Where is the Tebow hype now? The eight Heisman winners who went on to have Hall of Fame NFL careers: Doak Walker, Paul Hornung, Roger Staubach, O.J. Simpson, Tony Dorsett, Earl Campbell, Marcus Allen and Barry Sanders. 1 QB in the whole list. It might actually be the kiss of death for a qb to win it! it sure seems like the KOD. The only heisman winning QB in the last 26 yrs of the award to with a playoff game in the NFL is Tim Tebow, a flash in the pan. Previous to him was Testaverde. Edited December 18, 2014 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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