LB3 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 (edited) I don't doubt Winston's talent. In fact I think he's amazingly talented. But he's a few cards short of a full deck and very likely to get in trouble in the pros like he did in college. He makes Manziel look like a choir boy It will be interesting to see how it plays out. The only thing he's done in college so far that would get him in trouble at the pro level was the incident with the girl, and that whole situation is messy. He has definitely made some poor decisions off the field. Though I think the "F@%$ her right in the p@#%&" thing was overblown, it did show a lack of self awareness. Time will tell. I also think Manziel is way more unstable. Edited December 11, 2014 by KikoSeeBallKikoGetBall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddenboy Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 if its true that there's no Franchise QB in 2015 we should, as Bills fans, be happy. Right? There wont be anybody down the road for anyone to point to and say "see, the Bills were stupid to trade away their first-rounder" or some variation on that theme. But even better, a couple more QB-needy teams will reach in 2015, leaving more talent for us to scoop up in 2016. Indeed, if QB-needy teams reach in 2015, we wont necessarily need a top-5 pick to get our man in 2016. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I would be curious to read Kiper's explanation for why Mariota is not a "franchise QB". IMO, Mariota is easily the best prospect since Luck and will be a better pro than Luck. No one has ever said or thought that about Mariota. Jameis can play. The off the field **** is no big deal on its own (assuming the sexual assault chargers which seem suspect are in fact untrue) The problem is it continued this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 No one has ever said or thought that about Mariota. Oh, then it can't be true. My bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I think Mariota is a better pro prospect than Jameis and the best since the Luck year. He is a rich man's Alex Smith. He's big, accurate, efficient and athletic. Jameis is the 2nd best prospect in the class IMO. He's tough and has a big arm. I question his decision making on and off the field. He's kind of like Big Ben. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Aw that sucks. What did I do to you? Trust me, I trust your opinion as much as I trust Kiper's. I think Mariota is a better pro prospect than Jameis and the best since the Luck year. He is a rich man's Alex Smith. He's big, accurate, efficient and athletic. Jameis is the 2nd best prospect in the class IMO. He's tough and has a big arm. I question his decision making on and off the field. He's kind of like Big Ben. So he is able to throw 5 tds to Wrs??? Qb is the biggest guessing game there is. No one knows. And very few are going to light up the NFL right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 If Kiper says there are none, the draft must be loaded with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Trust me, I trust your opinion as much as I trust Kiper's. So he is able to throw 5 tds to Wrs??? Qb is the biggest guessing game there is. No one knows. And very few are going to light up the NFL right away. I don't disagree at all. I just haven't liked a lot of QBs in recent years. I liked Luck and RG a lot (but everyone did). I liked Johnny & Teddy last year (not Bortles or Carr). I didn't like anyone in EJ's year. It obviously a crap shoot but I think that Mariota's skill set will translate well. I just don't have a lot of confidence that Jameis will stay out of trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 (edited) Trust me, I trust your opinion as much as I trust Kiper's. So he is able to throw 5 tds to Wrs??? Qb is the biggest guessing game there is. No one knows. And very few are going to light up the NFL right away. My problem with Winston is that he seems to throw to the first read all of the time and -- more importantly -- his receivers are almost always open (because opponents play zone). If I'm a GM, I have serious concerns about how that translates to the NFL. Also, if I'm Winston and I'm as good a baseball player as a QB (which he may well be), I choose to play baseball seven days out of seven. He had a 1.08 ERA this year in 33+ innings and a WHIP of 0.75 in a powerful conference. That's seriously good: http://www.thebaseba...jameis-winston. His walk and strikeout ratios improved dramatically from 2013 to 2014 too. Also: http://www.baseballa...eball-prospect/ and http://thebiglead.com/2014/03/26/jameis-winston-pro-baseball-player-why-its-less-crazy-than-you-think/ . Edited December 11, 2014 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Mel Kiper Jr. “If [Jimmy Clausen] is not a successful starting quarterback in the NFL, I'm done. That's it. I'm out.” Promises, promises... I've been on Winston's bandwagon since watching him on ESPN's Elite 11 series a few years back. I won't come off it until it completely derails. He's doing his best with the off field stuff. But I like his game and the fact that he never loses is nice too. (There, the jinx is in.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv's Neighbor Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Start Tuel, go 0-16, and be in Perfect position for 2016! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flmike Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Yeah, if I'm Winston, I play baseball. Fewer chances of losing your mind to concussions. If he wants to play football, he probably needs to stay in college another year to work out some issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 MM reminds me of Kapernick. Tall, Lean and fast. His arm is strong, but not as strong as CK. He has a chance to be good in the right situation. Everyone underrates how important the context is for the player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flmike Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 One also has to consider the conference he plays in. I don't think Oregon has been tested yet this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 (edited) One also has to consider the conference he plays in. I don't think Oregon has been tested yet this year. The Pac was the 2nd best conference this year IMO. Off of the top of my head UCLA, USC, Utah, Stanford, Arizona and ASU were all ranked this year at 1 time. They played at UCLA, Arizona twice, Stanford and at Utah. In addition, they played MSU as an out of conference game. Oregon by no means had an easy road. Outside of Alabama they played BY FAR the toughest schedule of the final four (and I'm a Buckeye fan). Edited December 11, 2014 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Start Tuel, go 0-16, and be in Perfect position for 2016! If it was just that easy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 The Pac was the 2nd best conference this year IMO. Off of the top of my head UCLA, USC, Utah, Stanford, Arizona and ASU were all ranked this year at 1 time. They played at UCLA, Arizona twice, Stanford and at Utah. In addition, they played MSU as an out of conference game. Oregon by no means had an easy road. Outside of Alabama they played BY FAR the toughest schedule of the final four (and I'm a Buckeye fan). Totally agree, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flmike Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Well, let's see how all those teams do in the bowl games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey D Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 not arguing as I am not an expert evaluator of QBs and have only watched him once or twice. But why do you have that assessment of him? Just curious mainly because the Oregon offense is not good prep for the nfl and he seems to make a lot of one read throws to wide open guys. But again I haven't watched him all that much. Plainly, no person on the face of the earth is an expert evaluator of QBs given all the swings and misses-- it is just about pure luck. If we could do it, we would become richer than avarice. I think that the point is that about 3% of those mid-late round guys pan out at QB. Maybe it's a little higher but nowhere near 10%. Yet everyone is outraged that their team is where 95% of the teams are. The point is that if it were easy everyone would have identified Romo or Brady instead of Kyle Boller & Giovanni Carmazzi. Before the draft everyone on here will love Mariotta & Winston (like evey analyst in the world). 3 years later they will all say that they loved whichever (if any) mid to late round guy that pans out. So every team in the league will have passed on said player multiple times yet all of the posters on here knew it was a mistake. It's easy to recognize Romo & Brady in hindsight but at the time there were hundreds of collegiate prospects that scouts liked more. So true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flmike Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 The HOF QB's all hated losing more than anything in the world. They mostly came from programs that were winners (the idea of drafting for pure potential is kind of silly) and they had a knack for making everyone around them better. Rare birds, but that's what you look for. You can't teach accuracy, pocket instinct, and the ability to read a defense (although different at the pro level, it transfers). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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