Orton's accuracy

[BADOLBILZ]

IMO we saw two things undo Orton in the second half.

 

First, from my vantage at the front of the upper deck near midfield the coverage schemes were excellent and they were rarely in bad coverage matchup situations all day. They were in Hackett's back pocket and Orton had a hard time finding easy looks. They encouraged the Bills to run the ball and the Bills rewarded them by not putting points on the board.

 

Second....and most importantly, I think that Orton's lack of physical strength showed. 17 pitches......he's good for. 49 is another matter. He is the physically weakest, most flat-footed QB in the league and there isn't a close second. There isn't much he can do about it now, he was basically retired until 2 months ago but throwing the football 45-50 times is a 100+ pitch outing for a baseball pitcher and the first thing that goes is the location. I think he was about 10 pitches past his limit. His offseason objective should be about 20# of muscle in the legs and core.

[Captain Hindsight]

Careful. Orton can apparently walk on water and its not his fault he couldn't complete a pass in the end zone to wide open receivers

 

I'm going to assume its all Cj's fault

[FireChan]

Careful. Orton can apparently walk on water and its not his fault he couldn't complete a pass in the end zone to wide open receivers

 

I'm going to assume its all Cj's fault

 

No one said either of these things.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

I agree with some of this. I thought Orton's arm looked tired and I have been struck all season about his flat footedneds-- would have thought a guy like him would mask lack of a big arm with better lower body mechanics.

[GG]

 

 

No one said either of these things.

 

He just said it above, so it must be true.

[Doc]

Careful. Orton can apparently walk on water and its not his fault he couldn't complete a pass in the end zone to wide open receivers

 

I'm going to assume its all Cj's EJ's fault

Fixed it for you.

[Buffalo Boy]

He can't throw a dump to the flat without the back having to jump for it, from his first start on. He gets the ball in the vicinity of player often, not to good spots. Balls are high, low behind, over the wrong shoulder. He seems to have absolutely no pocket awareness at times. He is MEDIOCRE. I don't see us beating the Fins on Thursday and then it should be EJ time again. We are NOT going to the Playoffs:(

[Gray Beard]

Thanks for pointing that out (not being sarcastic).

The idea that Orton's arm was turning to mush because he threw it too many times hadn't occurred to me.

It makes a lot of sense.

An interesting twist that once again points to coaches not understanding the situation.

[jaybee]

LOL ! Everyone was talking about how he was rated in the top 6 (or thereabouts) last week. All good. He has a less than stellar performance yesterday and now he's flat-footed, has no pocket awareness, puts the ball in bad spots etc. C'mon guys.

[Orton's Arm]

Are you suggesting that Orton started out accurate, but became progressively less accurate as the game progressed and his arm tired?

[JohnC]

IMO we saw two things undo Orton in the second half.

 

First, from my vantage at the front of the upper deck near midfield the coverage schemes were excellent and they were rarely in bad coverage matchup situations all day. They were in Hackett's back pocket and Orton had a hard time finding easy looks. They encouraged the Bills to run the ball and the Bills rewarded them by not putting points on the board.

 

Second....and most importantly, I think that Orton's lack of physical strength showed. 17 pitches......he's good for. 49 is another matter. He is the physically weakest, most flat-footed QB in the league and there isn't a close second. There isn't much he can do about it now, he was basically retired until 2 months ago but throwing the football 45-50 times is a 100+ pitch outing for a baseball pitcher and the first thing that goes is the location. I think he was about 10 pitches past his limit. His offseason objective should be about 20# of muscle in the legs and core.

 

Orton is playing at an Orton level. He is what he is: adequate. He is a heady game manager type qb who when he is in rhythm is effective. He is a very immobile qb who when he has to throw while moving is not very effective. In general I thought he had a poor game. There were some critical drops (Wood most egregious/hit him in the breadbasket) and some tough penalties (the Chandler miniscule push off) that changed the flow of the game against the Bills.

 

I don't want to give the impression that I don't like Orton. He salvaged the season when he took over for the unready young qb. But if you want to have a serious team you have to have a top third qb in order to be able to compete for anything serious. If you don't have that caliber of qb the margin for error is very small, as demonstrated in yesterday's game.

 

It was very apparent in this game that Watkins was hindered by his groin issue. He simply didn't have the explosion in this game that he usually has. Jackson also was hampered with the groin problem. I don't see either of these two players at a peak level going into the Miami game.

 

What surprised me in this game, especially in the second half was that the OL was creating lanes that both backs took advantage of by decisively hitting the holes. That is one positive coming out of this game. If Brown wouldn't have fumbled away the game he would have been the offensive player of the game.

[CardinalScotts]

IMO we saw two things undo Orton in the second half.

 

First, from my vantage at the front of the upper deck near midfield the coverage schemes were excellent and they were rarely in bad coverage matchup situations all day. They were in Hackett's back pocket and Orton had a hard time finding easy looks. They encouraged the Bills to run the ball and the Bills rewarded them by not putting points on the board.

 

Second....and most importantly, I think that Orton's lack of physical strength showed. 17 pitches......he's good for. 49 is another matter. He is the physically weakest, most flat-footed QB in the league and there isn't a close second. There isn't much he can do about it now, he was basically retired until 2 months ago but throwing the football 45-50 times is a 100+ pitch outing for a baseball pitcher and the first thing that goes is the location. I think he was about 10 pitches past his limit. His offseason objective should be about 20# of muscle in the legs and core.

 

he was a bit off Sunday mixed with Watkins injury it wasn't what it has been, still goes back to Bryce Brown. He's a timing QB, but he throws a tight spiral and has been good in bad weather. This is classic over reaction. The first thing to go is your mechanics as a baseball pitcher

[thewildrabbit]

IMO we saw two things undo Orton in the second half.

 

First, from my vantage at the front of the upper deck near midfield the coverage schemes were excellent and they were rarely in bad coverage matchup situations all day. They were in Hackett's back pocket and Orton had a hard time finding easy looks. They encouraged the Bills to run the ball and the Bills rewarded them by not putting points on the board.

 

Second....and most importantly, I think that Orton's lack of physical strength showed. 17 pitches......he's good for. 49 is another matter. He is the physically weakest, most flat-footed QB in the league and there isn't a close second. There isn't much he can do about it now, he was basically retired until 2 months ago but throwing the football 45-50 times is a 100+ pitch outing for a baseball pitcher and the first thing that goes is the location. I think he was about 10 pitches past his limit. His offseason objective should be about 20# of muscle in the legs and core.

IMO this goes back to coaching, and how they utilize their players. The coaches couldn't seem to get the most of of Spiller either. With Jim Kelly in his later years the coaches tried to limit his passes so he wouldn't wear down towards the end of the season, same with any older QB.

 

 

The bigger questions might be...when the O line is doing well, and the run game is working so well to the tune of averaging 5.0 yards per carry why run only 22 times, and pass 48 times? Then why throw 48 times against the #1 pass defense in the NFL?

[Orton's Arm]

IMO this goes back to coaching, and how they utilize their players. The coaches couldn't seem to get the most of of Spiller either. With Jim Kelly in his later years the coaches tried to limit his passes so he wouldn't wear down towards the end of the season, same with any older QB.

 

 

The bigger questions might be...when the O line is doing well, and the run game is working so well to the tune of averaging 5.0 yards per carry why run only 22 times, and pass 48 times? Then why throw 48 times against the #1 pass defense in the NFL?

 

> The bigger questions might be...when the O line is doing well, and the run game is working so well to

> the tune of averaging 5.0 yards per carry why run only 22 times, and pass 48 times?

 

An excellent question.

 

Against the Jets, the Bills' offense averaged 2.0 yards per carry, and 14 yards per pass attempt. Hackett, being the genius that he is, chose to run it two plays for every one passing play.

 

This time around he went up against a team with a great pass defense but a lousy run defense. The Bills' best WR was playing hurt. So why not call two pass plays for every running play?

 

On another matter, it's possible that Watkins' injury interfered with the timing between himself and Orton. Both because of running differently due to the injury itself, and because of the missed practices.

[Dorkington]

64.5% on the year... so he had a game with a few poorly thrown balls, so far, overall, he's been pretty accurate.

 

 

This doesn't really show that KO gets much worse as the game goes on...

Edited November 11, 2014 by Dorkington

[phypon]

Ha, you're funny. Sorry, but EJ's not the answer. I'm pretty sure no one here has said that Orton is the franchise man either. We all know what we have in Orton. With the exception of a rate few, you're only pointing out the obvious.

[John from Riverside]

I asked this question today and it went unanswered....

 

- Are elite QBs allowed to have bad games (and I am not suggesting that Orton is Elite)

 

if the answer is yest

 

- THen why cant a GOOD game managing QB like Orton be allowed to have one before being questioned to death.......

 

Say what you want about Orton....but he has gotten progressively better in his stats every year he has played (keep in mind TEAM WINS is just that....a TEAM stat)

 

Now throw in the fact that Orton was being asked to chuck it against the BEST pass defense in the NFL EVEN THOUGH our running game was actually working quite well.....

 

Anyone?

[Coach Tuesday]

It's definitely something to monitor. The guy was a retired non-athlete as of August 1. He is on the wrong side of 32 and never had much athleticism to begin with. He had a few weeks to prepare for the season and then a few weeks of clipboard-holding before being handed the starting job. And now we're past the midseason mark where players start to wear down a bit. His mechanics definitely looked off on Sunday, after a bye week no less. The dude clearly is not in tip-top shape. Let's see if things continue to unravel for him or if, as some here are suggesting, it was "just one bad game." Put me in the "regressing to the mean" camp, but the jury's still out.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

Careful. Orton can apparently walk on water and its not his fault he couldn't complete a pass in the end zone to wide open receivers

 

I'm going to assume its all Cj's fault

:worthy:

:beer:

 

Fixed it for you.

good one Doc

 

64.5% on the year... so he had a game with a few poorly thrown balls, so far, overall, he's been pretty accurate.

 

 

This doesn't really show that KO gets much worse as the game goes on...

YOU are ignoring the issue where he had 4 opportunities to win the game at the 2 minute mark where all 4 passes were off target?

 

The same Orton who was being highly bragged about for having a a very high QBR rating in the 4th......... what was it 130+?

The same Orton who was being highly bragged about for having a high red zone rate in his first 2 games?

 

He is who many thought he is.

[thebandit27]

IMO we saw two things undo Orton in the second half.

 

First, from my vantage at the front of the upper deck near midfield the coverage schemes were excellent and they were rarely in bad coverage matchup situations all day. They were in Hackett's back pocket and Orton had a hard time finding easy looks. They encouraged the Bills to run the ball and the Bills rewarded them by not putting points on the board.

 

Second....and most importantly, I think that Orton's lack of physical strength showed. 17 pitches......he's good for. 49 is another matter. He is the physically weakest, most flat-footed QB in the league and there isn't a close second. There isn't much he can do about it now, he was basically retired until 2 months ago but throwing the football 45-50 times is a 100+ pitch outing for a baseball pitcher and the first thing that goes is the location. I think he was about 10 pitches past his limit. His offseason objective should be about 20# of muscle in the legs and core.

 

I could buy the pitch-count explanation if Orton wasn't missing guys early on as well. After they ran through the scripted plays, he just looked off all day. Now, that doesn't mean that the pitch-count point is incorrect per se; I'm just not convinced that it's the only issue at play (or even the most critical).