When do the phantom calls against us stop??

[jumbalaya]

On the 3rd and 18 completion that left us at 4th and two, our WR was clearly hot by the second tackler three yards out of bounds. No flag. Flagrant foul.

[peterpan]

 

And if you have television in your house or if you found television somewhere else and saw the (regular old) slow mo replay, you will clearly see Henderson moved his shoulders and then the guy jumped

 

Thanks pal. I have a tv and saw the replay on said tv. I wouldn't call it a flinch and it's only noticeable when zoomed in and in slow mo. In real time it's not noticeable. From a distance its not noticeable. The movement didn't draw the guy offsides.

 

Like I said, if the flag was thrown WHEN Henderson flinched, I'd believe the claim that the ref saw it. Because it wasn't flagged until AFTER the KC guy jumped, I'm not buying it.

[qblax16]

Call it sour grapes, call it what you will...

 

I share the frustration on the refs. Bills do not get 50/50 calls. The D-Line is so good that it looks like holding by opposing O-Line every play, but never seem to get the calls.

 

If they avoid 1 of those 3 tick/tack calls I really think Bills win that game. They lost the game themselves with the turnovers, so can't just point at the refs, but I don't think it's outrageous to call the refs on some of the BS.

Edited November 10, 2014 by qblax16

[Webster Guy]

The unnecessary roughness against the QB will always be called. I had no problem with that one.

 

If the umpire saw Henderson's twitch good for him, but I think he called it upon the KC player moving (2 good seconds later)

 

The push on Chandler is what get me, if you didn't call Bowe the couple of times he pushed off McKelvin you sure as hell don't call it when a player from the other team does the same. No consistency on the same exact situation and that is why it was a BS penalty.

exactly.

[Matt in KC]

These are my observations after watching once live and not replaying anything (yet).

 

1) Roughing the passer on Williams.

This was legit. Williams led with his helmet low to the ground (so he obviously knew the QB was sliding). He didn't pull up at all, and actually ended up doing a somersault because of the contact he made. I don't think there was any intent to injure or get a lick on a QB, just instinctive play focusing on preventing the 1st down.

 

2) False start on 4th and 1.

I didn't see this at first. The twitches weren't enough to be called, unless the other team jumps. Also, I'd guess if it worked on the first twitch, it wouldn't be called. But after the first one drew the line judge's eyes, he saw the second. If I was a coach, I'd have a play like this ready; you might get a 1st down, and you don't need to take a time out to go punt if you get caught. (Or you twitch all the way until a delay of game.)

 

3) PI on Chandler...Might have completely whiffed, but at worst barely even contacts the LB yet gets flagged.

I really wanted to see another angle of this. I do think Chandler pushed off, but was a bit surprised it was called from what I saw. The defender looked like he was already a ways ways, so Chandler straightening his arm caught the eye of the refs, but didn't do that much, except that it was timed perfectly and did really help the separation.

 

When Graham pushed the defender at the end of the Saints game he went sliding on his back. After the Fail Mary play, it had to be called.

 

4 - I was surprised Tami Hali wasn't called for that last little pull up on the TEs leg (Lee Smith, right?). It was so clearly after the refs were whistling to break it up. Frankly I was expecting they'd throw a flag and call fouls on both teams. I think they just saved time...

 

5 - The hit on Hogan out of bounds was waaay out of bounds. I have seen much much less called. That said, the defender committed to the hit as Hogan was stepping out, which is why they let it go, I think. Still, there's no reason to hit someone way out there where he was aiming. I think this one is the most legitimate beef, but whatever.

 

The players determined the game by the plays they made, or didn't. Overall, I think the officiating was fine, and would be happy to have that crew every week.

Edited November 10, 2014 by Matt in KC

[RyanC883]

Call on Williams was a good call. Henderson moved. Chandler pushed off. Am I missing something here?

 

yeah. The Refs made tickey-tackey calls against the Bills (ie. Williams and Chandler) while letting a KC player slam a Bills player to the ground right after the BS PI on A. Williams and nothing was called. If you call a tight game, be consistent. Inconsistent refs are horrible. They have been horrible in other games (non-Bills) games this year also. Really, the NFL needs to insist on some ACTUAL accountability at this point. They look like they don't care anymore. People bashed the replacement refs, but as I recall they were consistent.

 

These are my observations after watching once live and not replaying anything (yet).

 

1) Roughing the passer on Williams.

This was legit. Williams led with his helmet low to the ground (so he obviously knew the QB was sliding). He didn't pull up at all, and actually ended up doing a somersault because of the contact he made. I don't think there was any intent to injure or get a lick on a QB, just instinctive play focusing on preventing the 1st down.

 

2) False start on 4th and 1.

I didn't see this at first. The twitches weren't enough to be called, unless the other team jumps. Also, I'd guess if it worked on the first twitch, it wouldn't be called. But after the first one drew the line judge's eyes, he saw the second. If I was a coach, I'd have a play like this ready; you might get a 1st down, and you don't need to take a time out to go punt if you get caught. (Or you twitch all the way until a delay of game.)

 

3) PI on Chandler...Might have completely whiffed, but at worst barely even contacts the LB yet gets flagged.

I really wanted to see another angle of this. I do think Chandler pushed off, but was a bit surprised it was called from what I saw. The defender looked like he was already a ways ways, so Chandler straightening his arm caught the eye of the refs, but didn't do that much, except that it was timed perfectly and did really help the separation.

 

When Graham pushed the defender at the end of the Saints game he went sliding on his back. After the Fail Mary play, it had to be called.

 

4 - I was surprised Tami Hali wasn't called for that last little pull up on the TEs leg (Lee Smith, right?). It was so clearly after the refs were whistling to break it up. Frankly I was expecting they'd throw a flag and call fouls on both teams. I think they just saved time...

 

5 - The hit on Hogan out of bounds was waaay out of bounds. I have seen much much less called. That said, the defender committed to the hit as Hogan was stepping out, which is why they let it go, I think. Still, there's no reason to hit someone way out there where he was aiming. I think this one is the most legitimate beef, but whatever.

 

The players determined the game by the plays they made, or didn't. Overall, I think the officiating was fine, and would be happy to have that crew every week.

 

You would be happy to have an inconsistent crew every week. No offense, but your nuts. That crew was terrible. To PI's on KC not called that were much more egregious than the Chandler "push off".

Edited November 10, 2014 by RyanC883

[Matt in KC]

You would be happy to have an inconsistent crew every week. No offense, but your nuts. That crew was terrible. To PI's on KC not called that were much more egregious than the Chandler "push off".

Stop talking about my nuts.

 

They weren't perfect, but were fine. I've seen several other games this year (Bills and otherwise) where the officiating was troublesome. Comparatively, this crew seemed fine. If we had played better, we would have won.

 

Ryan, I do agree with your comment about the optics of the referees. I think they do review and judge watch game by each crew. The NFL would be wise to make sure everyone remembers that the refs make mistakes too and are graded accordingly, and that some type of action is taken. (Is there anything but playoff/Super Bowl selection?)

[Manther]

Makes plays and refs do not matter, I would say the late hit out of bounds on Hogan was the worst no call of the day.The second defender has his whole body out of bounds and continues to attack Hogan.

I would totally agree! They could have and should have called that. Besides that the refs did pretty darn good for the game. And WE blew the game ourselves. We pissed it away.

 

A call on hitting Hogan out of bounds would have gave us a first down and another chance.

[Not at the table Karlos]

 

 

So the ref just guessed that the guy who flinched twice before the KC guy jumped....was Henderson?

 

Why didn't he guess someone else?

 

And if you have television in your house or if you found television somewhere else and saw the (regular old) slow mo replay, you will clearly see Henderson moved his shoulders and then the KC guy jumped.

 

 

 

The lunatic fringe is crushing hard this AM.

I see you don't understand sarcasm.

another poster said they only showed the top half of the lineman on the replays so it would have been impossible to see the offsides if you were at the game.

 

 

 

The day after a Bills loss often is when the tin foil hats come out in numbers. But doctoring the video is one I have not heard before and gave me a morning giggle, thanks kr632

again I see sarcasm is lost here. But your welcome Edited November 10, 2014 by kr632

[TC in St. Louis]

Henderson's Flinch. That's the novel I'm working on in my tin foil hat.

I watched this for the 8th time this morning. The reason the guy jumped was the snap count. He was looking straight ahead, and could not have seen Henderson's Flinch from that angle. How come the guy right across from Henderson didn't jump? Simple. It was so slight it didn't affect the play. What made the guy jump was Orton.

 

The referee is supposed to call the penalty on the guy who committed the infraction. That would be the DL who jumped on the snap count. That Henderson's Flinch took place is a mere coincidence. It had nothing to do with the guy jumping offside.

 

There was no causal relationship. Therefore, Henderson's Flinch has become a novel you can put in the category of Pulp Fiction. It was not the cause of the offsides.

 

I watched Chandler's Infraction. That was fiction as well. Slight push while engaged with the safety, before the pass was thrown. Happens every day.

[dave mcbride]

his shoulder doesn't move. Also the guy that jumps clearly has his head facing the ball so unless he has an eye that grew on the side of his helmet he couldn't see the slight twitch by henderson. Yes henderson twitched ever so slightly but I don't think either the chiefs defender or the ref saw it. Also like someone said why was the flag thrown so late. If henderson moved then why didn't they throw the flag then. Henderson didn't move for over a full second before the chiefs jump. Still it was a chicken **** call and the ball should have been snapped already for the qb sneak that Marrone and canthackett should have called

It absolutely does move. It's the inside shoulder (and thigh), not the outside one that's closer to the viewer. Watch it again. It's clear as day. That's the move that gets the defender to jump.

 

Henderson's Flinch. That's the novel I'm working on in my tin foil hat.

I watched this for the 8th time this morning. The reason the guy jumped was the snap count. He was looking straight ahead, and could not have seen Henderson's Flinch from that angle. How come the guy right across from Henderson didn't jump? Simple. It was so slight it didn't affect the play. What made the guy jump was Orton.

 

The referee is supposed to call the penalty on the guy who committed the infraction. That would be the DL who jumped on the snap count. That Henderson's Flinch took place is a mere coincidence. It had nothing to do with the guy jumping offside.

 

There was no causal relationship. Therefore, Henderson's Flinch has become a novel you can put in the category of Pulp Fiction. It was not the cause of the offsides.

 

I watched Chandler's Infraction. That was fiction as well. Slight push while engaged with the safety, before the pass was thrown. Happens every day.

Look at his inside shoulder (and thigh). It's clear as day.

Edited November 10, 2014 by dave mcbride

[Livinginthepast]

Henderson's Flinch. That's the novel I'm working on in my tin foil hat.

I watched this for the 8th time this morning. The reason the guy jumped was the snap count. He was looking straight ahead, and could not have seen Henderson's Flinch from that angle. How come the guy right across from Henderson didn't jump? Simple. It was so slight it didn't affect the play. What made the guy jump was Orton.

 

The referee is supposed to call the penalty on the guy who committed the infraction. That would be the DL who jumped on the snap count. That Henderson's Flinch took place is a mere coincidence. It had nothing to do with the guy jumping offside.

 

There was no causal relationship. Therefore, Henderson's Flinch has become a novel you can put in the category of Pulp Fiction. It was not the cause of the offsides.

 

I watched Chandler's Infraction. That was fiction as well. Slight push while engaged with the safety, before the pass was thrown. Happens every day.

 

Great post! exactly right!! All these people coming out of the woodwork to defend the refs calls! WHY?? This isnt a Refs are against the Bills conspiracy thread. I think its more the refs are incompetent leaguewide thread. The false start call on the Bills came as a result of the Chiefs players gestures and a guess by the refs.

[bbb]

It absolutely does move. It's the inside shoulder (and thigh), not the outside one that's closer to the viewer. Watch it again. It's clear as day. That's the move that gets the defender to jump.

 

 

Look at his inside shoulder (and thigh). It's clear as day.

 

You see his shoulder move here?:

 

[Not at the table Karlos]

 

It absolutely does move. It's the inside shoulder (and thigh), not the outside one that's closer to the viewer. Watch it again. It's clear as day. That's the move that gets the defender to jump.

 

 

Look at his inside shoulder (and thigh). It's clear as day.

let me put on my x-ray glasses and watch it again for the 48th time.

 

 

 

You see his shoulder move here?:

 

I absolutely do not. But maybe my x-ray specs aren't working correct today. Only thing I see is the camera refocusing.

[bbb]

That's all I see.

[todd]

Call on Williams was a good call. Henderson moved. Chandler pushed off. Am I missing something here?

 

I can't disagree with you, but the calls are inconsistent from play to play, game to game, and team to team. One team gets calls like that on a drive, and KC doesn't on the next.

[CodeMonkey]

I see the Whaaaaaaaaaambulance is working overtime today

[bbb]

Exactly!! The refs knee jerked themselves and called the Bills because they were sold on the call by KC. There's no way that the Refs saw the twitch of the leg. These old guys they have reffing the games would never be looking for that. They are watching the heads and the hands of the O Line. In the end though, Marrone (or whoever made the playcall to draw them offside) is a complete wuss. Sneak the damn ball and get a first down! dont rely on the refs to make the correct call when you know they suck anyway!!

 

Agree with everything here. The QB sneak is so underused by the Bills.

 

But, has anybody ever seen this twitch call before???

 

I was saying at the game that the refs almost always get this call right;.but they blew this one.............That's because everybody in the stadium is looking at exactly what the ref should be looking at - down the line to see real movement towards the opponent........I've never seen a muscle twitch called!

[billykaykay]

Call on Williams was a good call. Henderson moved. Chandler pushed off. Am I missing something here?

If Henderson breathes, there will be movement.

Gronkowski runs right at the safety, makes contact, & then breaks off his route one way or the other. Never an offensive PI.

[Mr. WEO]

Thanks pal. I have a tv and saw the replay on said tv. I wouldn't call it a flinch and it's only noticeable when zoomed in and in slow mo. In real time it's not noticeable. From a distance its not noticeable. The movement didn't draw the guy offsides.

 

Like I said, if the flag was thrown WHEN Henderson flinched, I'd believe the claim that the ref saw it. Because it wasn't flagged until AFTER the KC guy jumped, I'm not buying it.

 

This is so obviously wrong, I 'm not sure what to say. Even you refute this nutty claim in your last sentence: "it wasn't flagged until AFTER the KC guy jumped".

 

So, the movement didn't draw the KC guy offsides, yet the KC guy "jumped", and a flag was then thrown. Wow..

 

Yes, that's how this works. You draw a guy offsides, they throw the flag--after the guy jumps offsides....all in "real time".

 

You should quit while you are way behind. And you might want to invest in a new TV, or move closer to a bar that has one of those "hi def" sets...

 

Agree with everything here. The QB sneak is so underused by the Bills.

 

But, has anybody ever seen this twitch call before???

 

I was saying at the game that the refs almost always get this call right;.but they blew this one.............That's because everybody in the stadium is looking at exactly what the ref should be looking at - down the line to see real movement towards the opponent........I've never seen a muscle twitch called!

 

 

Any player on the offense, QB included, who makes an "abrupt move" in order to draw the defender off sides will be flagged for false start. So the O-lineman doesn't have to be "moving towards the opponent".

 

Look, the Bills were obviously trying to lure the Chiefs off-sides. They had no play called. Everyone on the planet, including the refs, knew what the Bills were trying to do.

 

Marrone should have just called an actual play and ran it...or punted. He's a numbskull.

Edited November 10, 2014 by Mr. WEO