What is better, no guns, or more guns?

[Big Blitz]

19 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

So for all of you saying we need more restrictions on guy purchase/ownership I have one question.  As things stand now, where did the shooter get his weapons? 

 

 

Fact finding has no place here.  

 

Emotions and "do something anything" solutions only ..... knowing why or what led to this is irrelevant.  

[ChiGoose]

Just now, Chef Jim said:

Who is opposing ANYTHING that would potentially prevent this??  Who are you talking about. 

Generally? The GOP electeds.

 

They hide in their “thoughts and prayers” but if they actually wanted people not to die they would do some fairly popular things like mandated background checks, and common sense gun laws.

 

Instead, they will say how awful it is while deflecting and saying it’s all mental illness despite the fact that every country has people with mental illness but no other rich country has these problems. 

[billsfan1959]

9 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

 
If they claim to not to be ok with it but oppose anything that would potentially prevent it, then I wouldn’t say they were actually not ok with it. 
 

If the ongoing indiscriminate killing of children isn’t enough for someone to actually want to stop it, then they are actually ok with it. 

If you want to intellectually argue your solutions have at it. But don’t be so arrogant to believe that anyone who might differ with your opinions is somehow less enlightened or less compassionate than you.

[ChiGoose]

1 minute ago, billsfan1959 said:

If you want to intellectually argue your solutions have at it. But don’t be so arrogant to believe that anyone who might differ with your opinions is somehow less enlightened or less compassionate than you.

I don’t think it’s arrogant to look at all of these killings, especially since Sandy Hook, see basically nothing being done to stop it, and reach the conclusion that some people just don’t care to fix it.

If I hurt your feelings, then I offer you my thoughts and prayers. I anticipate that this should be sufficient.

[Chef Jim]

5 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

Generally? The GOP electeds.

 

They hide in their “thoughts and prayers” but if they actually wanted people not to die they would do some fairly popular things like mandated background checks, and common sense gun laws.

 

Instead, they will say how awful it is while deflecting and saying it’s all mental illness despite the fact that every country has people with mental illness but no other rich country has these problems. 

Who has held The House The Senate and the Presidency the last 18 months with no meaningful gun legislation? Plenty of blame to be passed on both sides of the aisle. 
 

Many other countries have guns without these events. My theory is the stress we put on people in this country to be successful.  To be smart. To be beautiful. To be useful and valuable and they snap.  Yes it’s a different angle but one I’ve been thinking a lot about lately.  Because it ain’t about the gun as much as it is the ***** whack jobs pulling the triggers. 

[BillStime]

Just now, Chef Jim said:

Who has held The House The Senate and the Presidency the last 18 months with no meaningful gun legislation? Plenty of blame to be passed on both sides of the aisle. 
 

Many other countries have guns without these events. My theory is the stress we put on people in this country to be successful.  To be smart. To be beautiful. To be useful and valuable and they snap.  Yes it’s a different angle but one I’ve been thinking a lot about lately.  Because it ain’t about the gun as much as it is the ***** whack jobs pulling the triggers. 

Why didn’t Trump get Trump Care and Infrastructure done?

 

Go play w your GLOCK tough guy

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, Chef Jim said:

Many other countries have guns without these events. My theory is the stress we put on people in this country to be successful.  To be smart. To be beautiful. To be useful and valuable and they snap.  Yes it’s a different angle but one I’ve been thinking a lot about lately.  Because it ain’t about the gun as much as it is the ***** whack jobs pulling the triggers.

 

3 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

Who has held The House The Senate and the Presidency the last 18 months with no meaningful gun legislation? Plenty of blame to be passed on both sides of the aisle.

Yeah they should have done something, though to be fair I'm not sure the odds on them being able to pass anything, with their only sometimes majority due to Joe Manchin.

[Chef Jim]

1 minute ago, Warcodered said:

 

 

Good that means I’m probably correct with my theory because all the sane ideas aren’t working.  What’s your theory?  

[billsfan1959]

Just now, ChiGoose said:

I don’t think it’s arrogant to look at all of these killings, especially since Sandy Hook, see basically nothing being done to stop it, and reach the conclusion that some people just don’t care to fix it.

If I hurt your feelings, then I offer you my thoughts and prayers. I anticipate that this should be sufficient.

You didn’t hurt my feelings. I would imagine, as I said, that every sane, rational person in this country is as upset and frustrated as you. It is not that people don’t care. It is that solutions to violent crime are not simple because human behavior is not simple. It is not as if there have been no efforts or that there has been no progress. We just need to continue to try to find answers without accusing each other of not caring about lives lost to violence.

[Warcodered]

3 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

Good that means I’m probably correct with my theory because all the sane ideas aren’t working.  What’s your theory?  

Why don't you go ahead list all the sane ideas they've tried.

[Chef Jim]

1 minute ago, Warcodered said:

Why don't you go ahead list all the sane ideas they've tried.

Let me rephrase that.  They’ve blamed everything from the access to guns and mental illness.  We’ve always had guns in this country why I lean towards mental illness.  Ok why the reason for huge uptick in these?  My theory of the pressure on people causes them to snap.  You remember the term “going postal”

right? 

[Warcodered]

10 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

Let me rephrase that.  They’ve blamed everything from the access to guns and mental illness.  We’ve always had guns in this country why I lean towards mental illness.  Ok why the reason for huge uptick in these?  My theory of the pressure on people causes them to snap.  You remember the term “going postal”

right? 

And we didn't have mental illness before?

[Chef Jim]

6 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

And we didn't have mental illness before?

Yes we did.  But let me ask you. Is any sane person, one with no mental illness, going to go into a school and murder children?  

[muppy]

More guns more safety? Less guns more safety?  

 

Right back to the OP how shocked am I........ZERO.

 

This is the crux of the matter and the issue that rest assured More people will die on both sides of that debate .....pro gun or anti gun...including total innocents until we are so dissensitized it becomes Rote and we throw our hands up in despair.

 

Where is the accountability here?

 

Oh My goodness what an utter mess. 

[BillStime]

1 minute ago, Chef Jim said:

Yes we did.  But let me ask you. Is any sane person, one with no mental illness, going to go into a school and murder children?  

The only country in the developed world with this recurring issue…

 

…but Jim w his big ol GLOCK wants us to buy the story that people just snap.

 

Yeah bro - keep trying to sell that story while I go buy a gun faster than getting my car washed at Delta Sonic.

 

Idiots

 

 

[Warcodered]

3 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

Yes we did.  But let me ask you. Is any sane person, one with no mental illness, going to go into a school and murder children?  

So, you want anyone who buys a gun to have to pass a mental examination then?

[Chef Jim]

3 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

So, you want anyone who buys a gun to have to pass a mental examination then?

They go through background checks.  Hell I couldn’t get a permit here in CA because I had a medical marijuana card.  He’s the issue.  Gun permits, to my knowledge are not renewed.  The background check is done once upon initial purchase.  All registers gun owners should be required to renew their registration periodically and have a new background check ran. 

Edited May 25, 2022 by Chef Jim

[Warcodered]

4 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

They go through background checks.  Hell I couldn’t get a permit here in CA because I had a medical marijuana card.  He’s the issue.  Gun permits, to my knowledge are not renewed.  The background check is done once upon initial purchase.  All registers gun owners should be required to renew their registration periodically and have a new background check ran. 

Yeah, I don't disagree with this.

[Chef Jim]

1 minute ago, Warcodered said:

Yeah, I don't disagree with this.

I’ve been saying this for years now.  It blew me away when I realized the permit we got 9 years ago after our house was broken in to never needed to be renewed.  Trust me. My wife has the permit and she’s crazier now than she was 9 years ago.  Now that is all my fault but that’s neither here nor there. 

[BillStime]

 

[BillStime]

3 hours ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

Completely untrue. There are way more accounts of it stopping violent acts than not. 

 

2 good guys w a gun tried… what happened?

 

 

[ArdmoreRyno]

8 hours ago, BillStime said:

2 good guys w a gun tried… what happened?

 

 

I can post a ton of articles where a SRO stopped a school shooting. So it DOES happen often.  
 

https://www.police1.com/active-shooter/articles/police-school-resource-officer-disarmed-gunman-at-mich-high-school-AYGy3oOOy71kZtFV/

[Tiberius]

9 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

I can post a ton of articles where a SRO stopped a school shooting. So it DOES happen often.  
 

https://www.police1.com/active-shooter/articles/police-school-resource-officer-disarmed-gunman-at-mich-high-school-AYGy3oOOy71kZtFV/

Are you seriously worried that some type of minor gun control measure will pass? No way! 
 

I’ll bet more laws will be passed making it easier for criminals to get murder weapons 

[Golden*Wheels]

9 hours ago, Chef Jim said:

They go through background checks.  Hell I couldn’t get a permit here in CA because I had a medical marijuana card.  He’s the issue.  Gun permits, to my knowledge are not renewed.  The background check is done once upon initial purchase.  All registers gun owners should be required to renew their registration periodically and have a new background check ran. 

In CT they last 5 years. If you don't renew in time (only can renew within the last 6 months of your current permit), you get to take the course and start all over again, a 6+ month process for the last few years in CT. But I am not sure if when you re-up, they reassess the background check again. Seems like a good idea.

[SoCal Deek]

2 minutes ago, Golden*Wheels said:

In CT they last 5 years. If you don't renew in time (only can renew within the last 6 months of your current permit), you get to take the course and start all over again, a 6+ month process for the last few years in CT. But I am not sure if when you re-up, they reassess the background check again. Seems like a good idea.

It is a good idea, but unlike a driver’s license or car registration which can only be requested upon a violation of some kind, unless the government is going to illegally search your house for the fire arm, how is this to be enforced. Most of these shootings are not done by people who’ve had an expired gun sitting in their dresser drawer for twenty years.

[ArdmoreRyno]

19 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Are you seriously worried that some type of minor gun control measure will pass? No way! 
 

I’ll bet more laws will be passed making it easier for criminals to get murder weapons 

First, I was explaining the idea that having armed people in a school doesn’t stop shooters is a fallacy. There is now reports of NO SRO at that school. 
 

Second... what “minor gun control measure” do you think would stop evil or criminals? I’d love to hear it. 

[Tiberius]

Just now, ArdmoreRyno said:

First, I was explaining the idea that having armed people in a school doesn’t stop shooters is a fallacy. There is now reports of NO SRO at that school. 
 

Second... what “minor gun control measure” do you think would stop evil or criminals? I’d love to hear it. 

What does it matter? Even the minor laws will not pass. You guys have won, this is your America. We are awash with guns and criminals and crazy people have easy access. That will not change. Next week, or tomorrow there will be more mass shootings. Nothing will change 

[ArdmoreRyno]

1 minute ago, Tiberius said:

What does it matter? Even the minor laws will not pass. You guys have won, this is your America. We are awash with guns and criminals and crazy people have easy access. That will not change. Next week, or tomorrow there will be more mass shootings. Nothing will change 

I didn’t think you’d actual give me any ideas. I’ve posted ideas. Only thing I’ve heard here has been  “ban assault weapons”. 
 

“You guys won”. Huh? The founding fathers won? The men who created the Bill or Rights?

[Golden*Wheels]

16 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

It is a good idea, but unlike a driver’s license or car registration which can only be requested upon a violation of some kind, unless the government is going to illegally search your house for the fire arm, how is this to be enforced. Most of these shootings are not done by people who’ve had an expired gun sitting in their dresser drawer for twenty years.

 

It's basically the same thing I guess. Your driver's license or reg is normally only requested when you've already been thought to have done something wrong (traffic stop, etc). Permit would normally only be inspected by LEO if you have been thought to be doing something wrong/suspicious with a gun. So yeah just like lots of folks drive with no insurance illegally, it is an "after the fact" enforcement.

 

Permits that expire at least can't be used to buy more guns and ammo, so it does give the state a chance to run a fresh background check, but again I am not sure they do. I am betting CT does but I could be wrong.

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

I didn’t think you’d actual give me any ideas. I’ve posted ideas. Only thing I’ve heard here has been  “ban assault weapons”. 
 

“You guys won”. Huh? The founding fathers won? The men who created the Bill or Rights?

Who cares about ideas that will go no where? Your side wins no matter what. The slaughter will continue! 

[ArdmoreRyno]

Just now, Tiberius said:

Who cares about ideas that will go no where? Your side wins no matter what. The slaughter will continue! 

Solid response 👍🏻

[ALF]

Voters get the politicians they put into office.

[Tiberius]

9 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

Solid response 👍🏻

You guys wanted a shooting gallery society, you got it 

1 minute ago, ALF said:

Voters get the politicians they put into office.

If we were more truly democratic this crap wouldn't be happening. The small, low population states have way too much power. But that isn't going to change 

[ArdmoreRyno]

Just now, Tiberius said:

You guys wanted a shooting gallery society, you got it 

 

You're so full of crap dude. 

 

Where has ANY gun owner wanted that? It's BS by people like you. 

 

New flash... a study showed that less than 1% of firearms bought legally were used in a gun crime (Washington Post article). Legal permit owners 18x less likely to commit a violent crime than your regular Joe. 

 

WE aren't the problem. Until you people can understand that, nothing will change. 

[Chef Jim]

15 minutes ago, Golden*Wheels said:

 

It's basically the same thing I guess. Your driver's license or reg is normally only requested when you've already been thought to have done something wrong (traffic stop, etc). Permit would normally only be inspected by LEO if you have been thought to be doing something wrong/suspicious with a gun. So yeah just like lots of folks drive with no insurance illegally, it is an "after the fact" enforcement.

 

Permits that expire at least can't be used to buy more guns and ammo, so it does give the state a chance to run a fresh background check, but again I am not sure they do. I am betting CT does but I could be wrong.

 

And there it is. It's not hard to figure this ***** out.   You must present a valid and current permit to purchase ammo.  It's been awhile since we bought ammo and it reminded me. Here in CA you needed to go through a background check but it appears it was struck down by a Federal Judge.  I think that is a bit excessive because if you shoot a lot your could be buying ammo weekly.  However a middle ground is as mentioned above.  You need to present a current gun permit that needs to be renewed (with background checks) every year or other year to purchase ammo.  Also.  You want to buy body armor?  Background check.  Good ***** lord.  So someone buys body armor and there are no red flags? 

[Tiberius]

3 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

You're so full of crap dude. 

 

Where has ANY gun owner wanted that? It's BS by people like you. 

 

New flash... a study showed that less than 1% of firearms bought legally were used in a gun crime (Washington Post article). Legal permit owners 18x less likely to commit a violent crime than your regular Joe. 

 

WE aren't the problem. Until you people can understand that, nothing will change. 

This situation was not brought about by me. Not sure why you are angry. You are so winning. You will not lose. Getting mad over winning is not rational 

[ArdmoreRyno]

1 minute ago, Tiberius said:

This situation was not brought about by me. Not sure why you are angry. You are so winning. You will not lose. Getting mad over winning is not rational 

 

It's not a football game dude. Winning and losing isn't a part of this. 

[HomeskillitMoorman]

One side will always be happy as long as there is no gun control and they get to control women's bodies. Sadly, a room full of Mexican kids getting shot is not going to move the needle for that ilk of people. 

[ArdmoreRyno]

6 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

And there it is. It's not hard to figure this ***** out.   You must present a valid and current permit to purchase ammo.  It's been awhile since we bought ammo and it reminded me. Here in CA you needed to go through a background check but it appears it was struck down by a Federal Judge.  I think that is a bit excessive because if you shoot a lot your could be buying ammo weekly.  However a middle ground is as mentioned above.  You need to present a current gun permit that needs to be renewed (with background checks) every year or other year to purchase ammo.  Also.  You want to buy body armor?  Background check.  Good ***** lord.  So someone buys body armor and there are no red flags? 

 

I'm interested if that's really true. It was reported before he was wearing a "tactical vest" which you can get about anywhere. Buying body armor isn't as easy as you normally have to order it and it can take weeks to get. 

[ALF]

How to keep guns out of the wrong hands is the problem.  Until then would need one locked school entrance  that can remote open from office with camera on someone wanting to enter . Other places still need a guard with body armor and armor piercing rounds.

Does 9mm have armor-piercing rounds?

The 9х19mm pistol-fired armor-piercing cartridge 7N31 is designed to destroy enemy manpower, wearing body armor, in the open, behind light covers, and inside vehicles. It is fired by the 9mm GSh-18 pistol