Official OTA/Minicamp Thread (May/June)

[Joe Miner]

.Dareus is closer to being out-of-the-league than he is to being an All Pro...Not that I think he's going to be out of the league soon or anything like that...But he's no where near an All Pro...Not even close...

 

Well, thanks for at least totally invalidating your opinion with a ridiculous comment like that.

[FLFan]

He's been getting less reps than TJax and Kolb all of OTAs.

 

It's pretty likely he'll be a backup QB to start the season unless he does amazing in training camp/pre-season.

I think you are right about EJ starting as the backup. As far as the reps now, not a concern. It makes sense for Marone to get long looks at TJ and Kolb vs. EJ, who is definitely going to make the team, and needs to work on fundamentals more than the other two. Either TJ or Kolb likely will not make the team, so the more they can compete now the better.

 

Well, thanks for at least totally invalidating your opinion with a ridiculous comment like that.

I do not find this ridiculous at all. Dareus showed promise as a rookie, was clearly much heavier and very ineffective last year, and looks even heavier now. This is a make or break season for him IMO. Either he starts to dominate, or the bust label will be more and more appropriate. It seems to me this kid has motivational issues. Perhaps he can be turned around, but I totally agree he is closer to being out of the league than being an all-pro right now.

[JStranger76]

I agree with KOK 100%, but the only thing that sucks about all this is Branch has also been much better in the NFL as a 3-4 DE than a NT, so someone will end up playing a less effective position a good amount of the time. I am praying Troup finally stays healthy and develops into a solid NT........and yes, I know that is rolling the dice to say the least.

[Joe Miner]

Do people realize that there are more than 2 types of NFL players? There's more than Pro Bowler and bust.

 

Relax.

 

No one knows anything about this kid or what the Bills are or are not asking him to do.

 

Did he play great last season? No. But he was far from the biggest problem on the D. I'd be hard pressed to say anyone on the D played "great".

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Dareus is a great fit for the 4-3 nose tackle, which actually plays off the nose and attacks the gap between center and guard. Like the wildly successful 49ers and Ravens defenses, I expect Pettine to field a defense that looks like a 3-4 but functions like a 4-3. This gives us the opportunity to be deceptive like a 3-4 but also allows Dareus, KW, Anderson and Carrington to do what they do best-- attack, penetrate, and make plays, rather than staying at the line of scrimmage and reacting to the offense.

 

Pettine has said he wants to be aggressive and dictate to the offense; I doubt he'll play a true 3-4 a majority of the time, as that would mean his athletic DL is holding the line and reacting rather than attacking. Especially when we don't have a real 3-4 nose tackle.

 

This isn't a comment on the weight issue, just saying Dareus at "nose tackle" makes sense IMO.

Edited May 29, 2013 by J-Gun Boone

[EmotionallyUnstable]

If it's not too outrageous to think EJ sits starting the season, is it too farfetched to think that he starts?

 

I understand that he has a lot to work on, but with a solid camp and the NFL moving towards starting rookies immediately, how likely is this?

[Dorkington]

I think you are right about EJ starting as the backup. As far as the reps now, not a concern. It makes sense for Marone to get long looks at TJ and Kolb vs. EJ, who is definitely going to make the team, and needs to work on fundamentals more than the other two. Either TJ or Kolb likely will not make the team, so the more they can compete now the better.

 

Indeed. I think they expect EJ to be around long term, so might as well see who's the better of TJax and Kolb, then let EJ come in when he's ready.

 

I, personally, would like to see EJ just start at the season, but logically, I think what they are doing makes sense.

[26CornerBlitz]

‏@ChrisBrownBills

Wed. OTA practice notes up - Installation almost done, Welch tries guard, Silva moves up. http://ow.ly/lw77U

 

#Bills

[26CornerBlitz]

@ChrisBrownBills

Woods on ESPN's NFL Live http://wp.me/plmrg-85T

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

Dareus is a great fit for the 4-3 nose tackle, which actually plays off the nose and attacks the gap between center and guard. Like the wildly successful 49ers and Ravens defenses, I expect Pettine to field a defense that looks like a 3-4 but functions like a 4-3. This gives us the opportunity to be deceptive like a 3-4 but also allows Dareus, KW, Anderson and Carrington to do what they do best-- attack, penetrate, and make plays, rather than staying at the line of scrimmage and reacting to the offense.

 

Pettine has said he wants to be aggressive and dictate to the offense; I doubt he'll play a true 3-4 a majority of the time, as that would mean his athletic DL is holding the line and reacting rather than attacking. Especially when we don't have a real 3-4 nose tackle.

 

This isn't a comment on the weight issue, just saying Dareus at "nose tackle" makes sense IMO.

 

This does seem to make a lot of sense, especially if the focus is going to have both Darues and Kyle Williams charging the 1-gap areas. If Carrington can be a solid DE (which seems to have a lot of promise for him in these OTA's) It looks like we can get decent pressure rushing the gaps. When you add on Mario and Anderson rushing from the LB spots, we might actually get a pass rush this year.

 

Indeed. I think they expect EJ to be around long term, so might as well see who's the better of TJax and Kolb, then let EJ come in when he's ready.

 

I, personally, would like to see EJ just start at the season, but logically, I think what they are doing makes sense.

 

That does seem to be the case. In spite of my "I only want EJ when he's ready" mantra, I think everyone was kind of hoping that he would be ready to take the first snap this year. But what I care about more than having a playoff run this year, would be having another period of dominance like we had in the 80's and 90's and that the Patriots have had for the last decade. If waiting gives us that, I'm willing to do so.

[Kipers Hair]

2013 - Darius = Pro Bowl, CJ = Pro Bowl & All Pro, Mario = Pro Bowl & All Pro, Jarius Byrd = Pro Bowl, Stevie Johnson = Pro Bowl, Kiko Alonso = Def ROY, and a lot of love will be shown to Stephon Gilmour...no pro bowl though....So it is written

[Doc]

If it's not too outrageous to think EJ sits starting the season, is it too farfetched to think that he starts?

 

I understand that he has a lot to work on, but with a solid camp and the NFL moving towards starting rookies immediately, how likely is this?

I say start him. It's year one of a new regime and he'll eventually be the starter anyway. Get the future going.

[eball]

LOL at all of you interpreting the rotation of OTA QB reps as any indication of who will be the Bills' starting QB on September 8.

[3rdand12]

2013 - Darius = Pro Bowl, CJ = Pro Bowl & All Pro, Mario = Pro Bowl & All Pro, Jarius Byrd = Pro Bowl, Stevie Johnson = Pro Bowl, Kiko Alonso = Def ROY, and a lot of love will be shown to Stephon Gilmour...no pro bowl though....So it is written

Then so it shall be.

Who will Byrd be representing ?

Bills i sure hope

[KOKBILLS]

Well, thanks for at least totally invalidating your opinion with a ridiculous comment like that.

 

What is ridiculous about it? You think he's closer to being an All Pro?

 

Maybe I went to far by saying he's closer to being out of the league...But he's light years away from being an All Pro...Far, far away...

 

 

No one knows anything about this kid or what the Bills are or are not asking him to do.

 

 

You really think The Bills are asking him to come in 22-30 lbs heavier than he was at his Combine? Really?

[NickelCity]

RoundUp: http://www.buffalobills.com/media-center/videos/Bills-Roundup-Wed-Highlights-OTA-Progress/a1a51d44-f75f-4e21-bda0-4a5417e8bc21

[FluffHead]

Did anyone hear Mario talking up Kiko Alonso on the John Murphy Show? Sounded genuine and very encouraging

[Doc]

Did anyone hear Mario talking up Kiko Alonso on the John Murphy Show? Sounded genuine and very encouraging

Watching the Bills Roundup, Tarvaris Jackson had some nice things to say about KA as well.

[Joe Miner]

Tell me what the Bills' coaches and trainers have told him concerning his body weight. I'll wait while you admit you don't know and are making assumptions.

 

He didn't have an all pro year and people jump on the easiest thing they can see as the reason why.

 

If you think the he's closer to being out of the league than an all pro, tell me which of those scenarios is more likely at the end of this year? Barring some kind of mental breakdown, injury, or crime spree, there is no way he plays his way out of the league by the end of the year. On the other hand, he does at least have the talent to be an all pro. But doubtful either one of your poorly thought out options happens.

[eball]

Did anyone hear Mario talking up Kiko Alonso on the John Murphy Show? Sounded genuine and very encouraging

Watching the Bills Roundup, Tarvaris Jackson had some nice things to say about KA as well.

 

Combine this with Pettine's comments to Murph the other night, and you have to think where there's smoke, there's fire. Alonso is going to be off and running with this defense.

[Dorkington]

LOL at all of you interpreting the rotation of OTA QB reps as any indication of who will be the Bills' starting QB on September 8.

 

So we can speculate about other positions, but QB talk is LOL-worthy?

 

I'll have to check the TBD rule book next time, sorry.

[eball]

So we can speculate about other positions, but QB talk is LOL-worthy?

 

I'll have to check the TBD rule book next time, sorry.

 

Oh, don't get your panties in a bunch. If you want to believe Manuel isn't going to start because he's not getting as many OTA reps, be my guest. I'll be sitting in the corner, smirking.

[Dorkington]

Oh, don't get your panties in a bunch. If you want to believe Manuel isn't going to start because he's not getting as many OTA reps, be my guest. I'll be sitting in the corner, smirking.

 

Who said I believe it specifically because of OTA reps?

 

And, commando all the way, panties bunch too often.

 

--

 

He's not being handed the seat out the gate, that's already working against him. You got two veterans on the roster with varied success. And nothing the staff has said indicates they are in any rush to throw EJ into the starting role.

 

It's not a BAD thing that EJ might not be the starter in week one, and it's certainly nothing more than a fan guessing like any other fan guessing about any other position.

 

Or are you smirking at yourself too when you talk depth charts?

Edited May 30, 2013 by Dorkington

[eball]

He's not being handed the seat out the gate, that's already working against him. You got two veterans on the roster with varied success. And nothing the staff has said indicates they are in any rush to throw EJ into the starting role.

 

It's not a BAD thing that EJ might not be the starter in week one, and it's certainly nothing more than a fan guessing like any other fan guessing about any other position.

 

Or are you smirking at yourself too when you talk depth charts?

 

Nobody thought he'd be handed the job out of the gate. All along Marrone said they'll have an open competition and the best guy will play. I'm merely suggesting that unless you're reading reports of Manuel looking lost out there, or throwing a ton of picks against guys in shorts, drawing conclusions about who might start is pretty pointless. But by all means, guess away.

 

Truthfully, I will view it somewhat negatively if Manuel doesn't beat out Kolb and Jackson for the job. His physical attributes are clearly superior, and if he's as smart a guy as we're being led to believe he should be able to grasp the playbook. I'll be disappointed if he's not starting against the Pats.*

 

I don't think I've discussed the Bills' depth chart this offseason. I usually wait to get into that conversation until preseason starts, and even then, I realize my opinion is far less educated than it needs to be to carry any weight.

[FLFan]

Oh, don't get your panties in a bunch. If you want to believe Manuel isn't going to start because he's not getting as many OTA reps, be my guest. I'll be sitting in the corner, smirking.

That was not his point or mine either. In fact I believe both of us said that the number of reps Manuel is getting is no indication of his status at the beginning of the year, more an indication of Marone needing to figure out which of the stop gap QBs on the roster he will keep. I speculated, as I believe did Dorkington, that Manuel may not be ready to start Day 1, but not because of the reps he is getting now. I respect you eball but I think your LOL comment was off the mark.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

Can we keep things in perspective? I think everyone, and I mean everyone who was talking about EJ Manuel before the draft had the same line: "He's easily the most physically gifted out there, but he needs refinement."

 

Why are we getting upset about having two very reasonable people ahead of him get first shot while he gets more time to work on mechanics, master the playbook and get used to the speed of the game like Colin Kaepernick did in San Fran?

[NickelCity]

Day 9 Notes: http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-2/OTA-Practice-Notes---Day-9/93bc6b4e-cc4a-4435-8a5e-770252f7bb8a

[3rdand12]

Can we keep things in perspective? I think everyone, and I mean everyone who was talking about EJ Manuel before the draft had the same line: "He's easily the most physically gifted out there, but he needs refinement."

 

Why are we getting upset about having two very reasonable people ahead of him get first shot while he gets more time to work on mechanics, master the playbook and get used to the speed of the game like Colin Kaepernick did in San Fran?

Let Manuel learn Let Vets get reps, and mentor the rookies , wide recievers and TE especially.

That goes a long ways in my opinion and a good investment. Some of the pressers and what i have read sound like the Vets really are getting the rookies up to speed nicely. And since we have a bazillion of rookies and nearly rookies this year i think the leadership and respect due experienced QBs help out as coaching tools too.

The veteran QB's would do well to talk with the youngster DBs and help them up to speed imo

Edited May 30, 2013 by 3rdand12

[FireChan]

Knowing the Bills luck, Rogers will break an ankle on a stray water bottle on the last day of OTA's.

[eball]

I respect you eball but I think your LOL comment was off the mark.

 

I think we all occasionally forget this is all in good fun.

[Dorkington]

Back on topic

 

I'm known for being relatively pessimistic compared to some, but I can't help but be excited about our defensive changes. I reallllly can't wait to see our team in live action. Feels like forever since I've seen blitzes. Fun times.

[eball]

Back on topic

 

I'm known for being relatively pessimistic compared to some, but I can't help but be excited about our defensive changes. I reallllly can't wait to see our team in live action. Feels like forever since I've seen blitzes. Fun times.

 

Absolutely. Also liked the specific mention of EJ picking up a couple of blitzes and hitting hot reads. Seems as though that's always the biggest issue for rookies, identifying blitzes.

[KeisterHollow]

Absolutely. Also liked the specific mention of EJ picking up a couple of blitzes and hitting hot reads. Seems as though that's always the biggest issue for rookies, identifying blitzes.

 

Yeah - I zeroed in on that, too. And, I heard Marrone talk about how good EJ's been doing, and that he expected him to do so, but that EJ's almost exceeded expectations (which, I think, might be attributed to EJ's picking up on those blitzes, whereas Kolb and Jackson have been getting sacked quite a bit, I've read), and that the overall depth chart for the QB's going into camp IS GOING TO BE DIFFICULT TO DETERMINE.

 

That, to me, is indicative of EJ's progress and his chances at starting - which is to say, it's NOT OUT OF THE QUESTION that he is the week 1 starter, at this point. They haven't ruled it out. I think it comes down to Kolb and EJ, and if they believe Kolb gives us a better chance at winning, then I'll support that view. However, I really think EJ's got the leg up to start on game day because Kolb has shown a susceptibility to get sacks. We'll see.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Yesterday in his interview on BB.com, Marrone was asked whether Kolb was ahead of the other QBs in picking up the offense.

 

In very short order Marrone turned the question into an opportunity to praise EJ on how quickly he's picking things up as a rookie.

 

This was yesterday following the session where EJ had fewer snaps than Kolb and Jackson.

[NickelCity]

Day 9 RoundUp: http://www.buffalobills.com/media-center/videos/Bills-Roundup-Defensive-Pressure-Thu-Highlights/99547cef-7dc7-4081-8b52-e84f0179edf4

[Dorkington]

 

 

Absolutely. Also liked the specific mention of EJ picking up a couple of blitzes and hitting hot reads. Seems as though that's always the biggest issue for rookies, identifying blitzes.

 

Indeed!

[Doc]

Yeah - I zeroed in on that, too. And, I heard Marrone talk about how good EJ's been doing, and that he expected him to do so, but that EJ's almost exceeded expectations (which, I think, might be attributed to EJ's picking up on those blitzes, whereas Kolb and Jackson have been getting sacked quite a bit, I've read), and that the overall depth chart for the QB's going into camp IS GOING TO BE DIFFICULT TO DETERMINE.

 

That, to me, is indicative of EJ's progress and his chances at starting - which is to say, it's NOT OUT OF THE QUESTION that he is the week 1 starter, at this point. They haven't ruled it out. I think it comes down to Kolb and EJ, and if they believe Kolb gives us a better chance at winning, then I'll support that view. However, I really think EJ's got the leg up to start on game day because Kolb has shown a susceptibility to get sacks. We'll see.

Yesterday in his interview on BB.com, Marrone was asked whether Kolb was ahead of the other QBs in picking up the offense.

 

In very short order Marrone turned the question into an opportunity to praise EJ on how quickly he's picking things up as a rookie.

 

This was yesterday following the session where EJ had fewer snaps than Kolb and Jackson.

I missed that video. Thanks for pointing it out.

 

I agree with both of you that Marrone, even though he didn't want to say it, was surprised, if not impressed, at how quickly EJ has picked things up. And the blitz pickups are certainly encouraging. The refusal to say who is ahead and that it will be tough lead me to believe that EJ will get the starting nod since it's a new regime and he's viewed as their future, so what better time to get the future started?

[NickelCity]

However, I really think EJ's got the leg up to start on game day because Kolb has shown a susceptibility to get sacks. We'll see.

 

I know it's just OTAs, but holy smokes does Kolb hang on to the ball for an eternity. If he is named the starter, I hope he exceeds my expectations. Count me on the EJ train though.

 

Hopefully the snap count is, as others put it, a means to identify who EJ's primary competition will be - Kolb or Jackson.

[OCinBuffalo]

Can we keep things in perspective?

Do you realize where you are, and to whom you are asking this?

 

Perspective: I just spent 30 minutes listening to a guy who knows patio awnings, defining what exactly is wrong with the one they installed at the bar I was at.

 

Now, if I can do that, then, we should all be able to have a little more patience with posters, right? Wrong. This is a message board, and though it has a relatively high reputation for being reasoned and knowledgeable: it's still a message board. My patience, and yours as well, is irrelevant. Here's why:

 

There are going to be posters, no different than in politics, who make a decision to support/decry EJM. The posters who end up being wrong, empirically, will end up defending their position no matter what. You are asking for people, who are already psychologically committed to EJM being a horrible draft pick...to have perspective?

 

 

We live in a world today, since 2000, where dignity, and especially, honor, no longer exist for most people. Where their heroes turn out to be incompetent buffoons, but they defend them, only because they never bothered to actually find out who they really were in the first place, and now they'd rather eat the crap, than admit they were wrong.

 

My uncle swore up and down that Ryan Miller was horrible, the season before he won the Vezina. Oops. This is because he had committed himself to Biron being the better choice 2 years prior. So, as things got worse for him, he decided to push all in, and hope that he was vindicated. FAIL.

 

The difference between my uncle and most people? He admitted to us that he was wrong. It took a lot but in the end he did the right thing.

[Dorkington]

There are going to be posters, no different than in politics, who make a decision to support/decry EJM. The posters who end up being wrong, empirically, will end up defending their position no matter what. You are asking for people, who are already psychologically committed to EJM being a horrible draft pick...to have perspective?

 

For clarity's purpose, I wasn't claiming that EJ is terrible, or a bad pick, or whatever. Just that it's very possible he doesn't start the season as the #1 QB based on what we've seen so far (and again, those aren't damning observations, by any stretch). It's not uncommon for a rookie QB to start as a backup.