Are the Linebackers really this bad?

[VirginiaMike]

I'm just wondering if the Bills linebackers are really as bad as they look or is it also the scheme that they are in that makes them so ineffective. It's seems like Sheppard almost always takes the wrong angle or chooses the wrong hole to fill. A middle LB should be close to in not the leading tackler each week and it seems like most weeks I never even hear his name called. He also looks lost in pass coverage. Barnett makes some plans, but misses as many as he makes. If he was out 3rd best LB we could play with him, but not as our best LB. Whoever they put on the strong side (Moats or Bradham) neither seems to know where to go and neither can cover a back out of the backfield.

 

The scheme seems to put our two outside LBs inside the D-Ends. The D-Ends can't keep contain and the OLBs are trapped inside easily, giving up the corner alot. I don't understand this scheme as I always thought a 4-3 defense had the OLBs outside the D-Ends.

 

Just asking.

[VABills]

yes

 

close this thread

[NoSaint]

it just looks like everyone in the second level goes to the wrong hole, gets sucked into the same spot etc....

 

more than a few times i watched them guess wrong and then to compound the issue multiple people went to the same gap it seemed also.

[zow2]

NFL scouts have mentioned that our LBs are slow...definitely slower as a group on average in the NFL. Being a half step behind makes all the difference on running plays and especially against fast guys like Chris Johnson

[Sisyphean Bills]

Were they this bad last year?

[5 Wide]

I see a lot of Bills players whose numbers are in the 50's getting blocked by guys whose numbers are in the 80's (not tight ends either). They are literally getting tied up by WR's at times... which is ridiculous for an NFL LB.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

What kills the LB's are cut-back runs, like Johnson's 89 yard run.

 

The LB's over-pursue on everything, including on play-action fakes, cut-backs, everything.

 

Bradham is the worst at this too, but he's also young, so he gets a bit of a pass.

[K-9]

Is this really not an obvious fact to everyone watching? Our LBs are the worst position group on the team, and that's saying something when we look at our DBs and QB. Worst group in the league. And it isn't close.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Billsrhody]

You need a good middle linebacker to run a 4-3. Sheppard is not a good middle linebacker.

[HankBulloughMellencamp]

The failures of the Bills D fall squarely at the feet of Wannstache since he is the coordinator. And especially since apparently Chan has indicated that the two of them have not meet to discuss Bills defensive performances "at length" out of respect for him or whatever. Which is completely ridiculous, but I digress.

 

The highly-talented (and highly-priced) D-linemen are not without fault for all the yardage the Bills have given up, as well as the lack of pressure(s) they have been able to consistently generate. And Aaron Williams is constantly exposed as a coverage liability, and Gilmore is green so he will sometimes get exposed, etc etc. (although I think #27 is a very good NFL corner already).

 

But what I can not understand for the life of me is ... how in the world has Kelvin Sheppard, to this point, kept his job with such poor (and lack of) performance from the MLB spot?!? And why has Kirk Morrison, who has performed that exact job adequately if not admirably in the NFL for 5+ years as a starter, not yet been activated?

 

To be fair, Wannstache often takes Sheppard off the field in favor of Coy Wire ... I mean Brian Scott, in passing situations. But please review the DVR if you have not hit 'delete' yet ... on each of the two TDs scored by "CJ.2KvsBUF," Sheppard got engaged to an O-lineman and just stuck to him. No ability to keep the blocker off him, no ability to disengage, nothing. It almost looks like he wants to lock horns with would-be blockers, and then he stays there dancing with them like a magnetized 'vibrating-football-game' figure. This is Linebacking 101 type **** we are talking about.

 

Many blamed Barnett for missing the play on the long one, but playside LBs are usually accounted for, and often get an extra FB in their face if they happen to beat a guy. Your middle linebacker MUST scrape over and help make the stop if/when the RB comes through or it's usually 'Goodbye Charlie' unless the safety can come up and make a great tackle. And Sheppard is never anywhere to be found. Quick, name two nice plays Sheppard has made this year. Didn't think you could. He is not ever even in the screen on CJ.8K's long TD.

 

Jairus Byrd has had to make WAY too many solo tackles where he bears the brunt of a breakaway RB. That is a lot to ask of any safety. So exactly what does the Bills coaching staff "like" about Sheppard?!? He is awful at best when the real bullets are flying. I am fairly certain Kirk Morrison will be activated and playing more from here on ... at least I hope so. But why hasn't that happened already?

 

WTF is going on, Wannstache? In limited duty, your boy from Pitt, Scott McKillop, looked like his instincts were at least twice as good as Sheppard's. I'd damn sure rather have him, Kirk, Poz or the ageless wonder London Fletcher as our MLB at this very moment. Quite possibly even Ray Bentley.

[NoSaint]

the morrison question has been confusing to me for a few years (since he left the raiders). he was really good there, then cant do anything in jax, and cant even dress here?

 

what happened?

[Never NEVER Give-up]

I just did a quick analysis of the Bills Tackling Stats:

% of TOTAL TACKLES:

LB-32 DB-48, DL-20

 

% of SOLO TACKLES:

LB-31 DB-50 DL-19

 

What does it mean? The analysis is incomplete because we need to realize DB's make a high %age of tackles on passing plays, thus padding their #'s, BUT, the raw #'s above DO suggest that the LB's are making too few plays. So I said to myself, "Myself, what if you compared our D to the #1 D (we want to become), what do their #'s look like".

 

Number 1 right now is SF 49'ers, here are their numbers

% of TOTAL TACKLES

LB-40 DB-38 DL-22

 

% of SOLO TACKLES

LB-42 DB-36 DL-22

 

The analysis is still incomplete, but you can derive that the Bill's secondary is being called on to make too many plays AND it make sense that as the game goes on those guys may get more worn out, hence succeptable to big plays later in the game.

 

Also, the Bills have 438 total tackles to SF's 377 or 16% more - we're on the field way too much (but we all already knew THAT !)

 

Another interesting thing about the numbers - the Niner LB's made 42% of the solo stops and were in on 40% of all tackles. The Bills' LB's only made 31% of the stops and were in on 32% of all tackles. This tells me the Niner LB's made plays 42% of the time on their own with no help (assists). The Bills' LB's should be embarrassed.

 

Looking at our DB's - theyre being asked to make SOLO stops (no help from LB/DL) on almost 50% (48%) of the plays - UN-Billeveable!!! We need to cut them some slack, buy them some Ben-gay and tell them we will draft LB's and maybe find some in Free Agency!!!

 

Our DL makes slighly fewer tackles as a %age of total plays, than the Niners DL - 20% vs 22%. But it's not as glaring as the LB/DB numbers, but intuitively, we all know the DL should be doing better.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Never NEVER Give-up

[Coach Tuesday]

I don't love Sheppard but those were two sick blocks. I mean he got absolutely lit up. Not easy to fight through those kinds of direct, well-executed hits, I don't care who you are.

[greenmohawk]

You're right Sheppard is stinking it up, he 's in there on potential. That he will be better w some experience. But I think i've seen enough too, the position was better served w Scott McKillop plugging the holes.

[HankBulloughMellencamp]

those were two sick blocks. I mean he got absolutely lit up. Not easy to fight through those kinds of direct, well-executed hits, I don't care who you are.

 

On the long run, you must be talking about the lead block on Barnett, and it was a good one by the FB.

 

But upon further review, one can clearly see Sheppard at least a yard deeper than the other LBs. At the snap, he shuffles forward and eventually willfully engages with the OL, whom in my opinion he could have easily avoided contact with by sidestepping as CJ breaks to his right). But he gets caught up in the muck for no reason. A decent MLB would have scraped over and plugged that play up just as CJ passed Barnett. Or at least got a piece of him.

 

I implore you to review the play again.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000083671/article/chris-johnson-adrian-peterson-pump-out-key-runs

[sjjr]

If Sheppard is blocked, then the D-line should be free to make a play. They aren't winning matchups they must to play this defense. If they aren't winning and Sheppard is blocked then we need a weakside LB and SS to make more tackles.

 

Really, if you're going to allow a guy who hasn't done anything all year to go for almost 200 on you then it has to be a team effort to be that bad.

[eSJayDee]

One of the reasons you seldom hear/see Sheppard is that a significant %age of the time, he's on the bench, as we're in nickel. Not an excuse, just an observation. I agree that you typically see the MLB in on a very high %age of tackles on running plays & based on observations, he certainly isn't.

[RyanC883]

We need better LB's and a scheme. Not a better scheme, a freaking scheme.

[rstencel]

This is why so many of us were pushing for LB's to be drafted with our first round selection if one worth drafting was available. One wasn't available as it turned out, but so many people kept saying how LB's are a dime a dozen and don't need LB's in today's NFL. Personally, I think LB's are they key to any defense, as they are asked to do so much in both running game and passing game, and have to be able to cover short zones, rb's and te's. They also need to be able to play the run and blitz when asked.

 

Top defenses are almost always led by a LB who is a beast, or a complete linebacker core that dominates most games. While can be said the Giants don't have that and won several superbowls, they just squeaked into the playoffs when making the superbowl as well, and their lb core isn't top end but isn't bad either.

 

I hope we look to improve in that area next draft, and devote a pick in one of top 3 rounds if any worthy candidates are still on the board, cause we really need a injection of talent at lb IMO.

[PaattMaann]

maybe his strategy/wannys game plan is for our LBs to eat up the blockers so our DBs are free to make the tackle : )

[jonramz]

you can't put the first TD on Sheppard, I actually thought he made a good play in the hole on that one blowing things up. I thought Bradham wasn't in his gap on the 1st td and on the 2nd Sheppard got blocked well... but it was Barnett that got crushed in the hole (and the hole was HUGE) and it was Kelsay who was too busy running upfield to play any run def.

[jonramz]

What kills the LB's are cut-back runs, like Johnson's 89 yard run.

 

The LB's over-pursue on everything, including on play-action fakes, cut-backs, everything.

 

Bradham is the worst at this too, but he's also young, so he gets a bit of a pass.

 

Best answer I've read today

[nucci]

yes

 

close this thread

Yep, very simple.

[FitzShowUsYourTitz]

I think I just saw Chris Johnson whizzing by my window.

[NFLBighits]

On the long run, you must be talking about the lead block on Barnett, and it was a good one by the FB.

 

But upon further review, one can clearly see Sheppard at least a yard deeper than the other LBs. At the snap, he shuffles forward and eventually willfully engages with the OL, whom in my opinion he could have easily avoided contact with by sidestepping as CJ breaks to his right). But he gets caught up in the muck for no reason. A decent MLB would have scraped over and plugged that play up just as CJ passed Barnett. Or at least got a piece of him.

 

I implore you to review the play again.

 

http://www.nfl.com/n...mp-out-key-runs

 

Ya I noticed the same thing with the hole cj was coming thru and sheppard just shuffled to the right with the guard 3 feet in from of him and what a disgrace sheppard has been and he should only be playing sparingly IMO

[auburnbillsbacker]

4-3 linebackers are supposed to be fast and instinctive. Most of the bills linebacker are more of the 3-4 type, big and strong. The bills in my opinion need 2 new startes at linebacker bad.

[HankBulloughMellencamp]

on the 2nd Sheppard got blocked well... but it was Barnett that got crushed in the hole (and the hole was HUGE) and it was Kelsay who was too busy running upfield to play any run def.

 

Then we agree to disagree on a few things ... on CJ's long one my point is simply that with half an ounce of MLB instinct, he could have at least slowed up CJ. To say "he got blocked" and blame it on Barnett is ridiculous. Barnett took on the lead blocker, and for him to make that tackle would have been stellar. Sheppard could/should have at least shown up at the point of attack - is that too much to ask of a MLB on essentially a cut that went off-tackle? I thought Kelsay did his DE job rather well by turning CJ into the "help" and not letting him get to the corner.

 

first, why people feel inclined to come to the defense of Sheppard, who barely shows up on the stat sheet, is beyond me.

[NFLBighits]

Then we agree to disagree on a few things ... on CJ's long one my point is simply that with half an ounce of MLB instinct, he could have at least slowed up CJ. To say "he got blocked" and blame it on Barnett is ridiculous. Barnett took on the lead blocker, and for him to make that tackle would have been stellar. Sheppard could/should have at least shown up at the point of attack - is that too much to ask of a MLB on essentially a cut that went off-tackle? I thought Kelsay did his DE job rather well by turning CJ into the "help" and not letting him get to the corner.

 

first, why people feel inclined to come to the defense of Sheppard, who barely shows up on the stat sheet, is beyond me.

I agree that was on sheppard and what the hell was he thinking and could ve at least trip him lol or stick his arm out..as he wasn't even engauged yet..

Edited October 22, 2012 by NFLBighits

[jonramz]

Then we agree to disagree on a few things ... on CJ's long one my point is simply that with half an ounce of MLB instinct, he could have at least slowed up CJ. To say "he got blocked" and blame it on Barnett is ridiculous. Barnett took on the lead blocker, and for him to make that tackle would have been stellar. Sheppard could/should have at least shown up at the point of attack - is that too much to ask of a MLB on essentially a cut that went off-tackle? I thought Kelsay did his DE job rather well by turning CJ into the "help" and not letting him get to the corner.

 

first, why people feel inclined to come to the defense of Sheppard, who barely shows up on the stat sheet, is beyond me.

 

Not really defending Sheppard... don't have a rooting interest in him either way, that just wasn't his gap assignment, that's all. It was Barnett's gap, and the gap was waaaaay to big because Dareus got doubled and wasn't able to hold his ground and Kelsay was way out of the play. Mario Williams actually does a really good job at holding the edge and pressing the hole down so the LB can come up and fill the hole. Barnett needs to come up w/ his inside shoulder and force it inside of him where Sheppard is, not outside of him where there is nobody. Sheppard needed to fill where Dareus should have been and not get blocked so easily by the guard coming off of the double team. Obviously easier said than done... but I'm 99% sure those were the missed gap assignments on that play

 

-Jon

[CBD]

I don't understand this scheme as I always thought a 4-3 defense had the OLBs outside the D-Ends.

That's not accurate, 4-3 DE typically has outside alignment and contain

 

on the 2nd Sheppard got blocked well... but it was Barnett that got crushed in the hole (and the hole was HUGE) and it was Kelsay who was too busy running upfield to play any run def.

Don't forget Dareus getting blown 3 yards off the ball by the double team. Edited October 22, 2012 by Carey Bender

[K-9]

I think I just saw Chris Johnson whizzing by my window.

 

That's better than having him whizzing IN your window.

 

GO BILLS!!!