bbb Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Eric Moulds was IMO very under appreciated both on a league level as well as by many Bills fans. I think so, too. I think he was the most talented receiver we ever had. For reason, his productivity would only be great every other year, though. I used to always be amazed by him, but it seemed like people around the country didn't know him as a top receiver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Mario Clark! Biggest hitter we've ever had in the secondary. Lifting mercury Morris over his head and body slamming him = priceless 25 picks by age of 27. Got a ring after being traded to 9'ers Mario Clark and Charlie Romes, the Bills had one of the best pass defenses in the NFL at that time...but one of the worst against the run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 The St. Petersburg Times ran an article today called "Top Ten Most Underappreciated Buccaneers". Pretty interesting stuff. Since it's a bye week, thought I'd run through my list of all-time underappreciated Bills (in no particular order). And no, you can't include Phil Hansen. If you're name is on the friggin' wall, you can't be friggin' underappreciated. 1. Jim Braxton. Did the dirty work for O.J. Powerful runner in his own right. 2. Bobby Chandler. One of the best possession receivers in Bills' history. Great blocker for O.J., especially for someone his size. Had a bunch of productive seasons after being traded to Oakland. 3. Mark Pike. Bad luck being a great special teams player on a team with the best special teams player of all time. 4. Frank Lewis. Jerry Butler had more flash but Lewis put together several strong seasons with the Bills. 5. Jim Ritcher. What was it? Something like sixteen years of solid left guard play? 6. Charles Rhomes. I remember him being a pretty good cornerback for us for a long time. 7. Pete Metzelaars. Strange career. Started for us for a bunch of years. Got benched for a few years in favor of Keith McKellar and then started again for a bunch of years after McKellar was gone. Strong blocker and dependable receiver. 8. Derrick Burroughs. He was really, really good. Better CB than Nate Odomes. Always thought we would have won Super Bowl XXV if he hadn't suffered career ended injury in 1989. 9. Daryl Talley. Underappreciated for first half of career. Pretty well appreciated after 1990. 10. Fred Jackson. He'll be off this list soon enough. Pay the man! Braxton was hurt in 1973 and only played in 6 games. Larry Watkins, the other FB on the team, played in all 14 games and did most of the blocking for OJ in that record breaking year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Jeff Wright was one hell of a NT for being undersized , & don't forget Jerry Butler , he was a great receiver it's to bad his career was cut short !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 How 'bout Mr. Consistency, Henry Jones? He had a solid career and some big moments in big games, like his interception in the Comeback game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I think so, too. I think he was the most talented receiver we ever had. For reason, his productivity would only be great every other year, though. I used to always be amazed by him, but it seemed like people around the country didn't know him as a top receiver. Honestly, I like Moulds, but I think he was more overrated than underrated. When he started to experience success, I always kind of thought he put as much effort into trying to convince refs that he was interfered with, rather than trying to catch the damn ball. I realize, this may have been later in his career, but I thing after the huge year he had in 2002 with Bledsoe, his effort slipped a bit. Used to really frustrate me, watching him belly-ache to the refs, after every play that went in his direction. Great player, IMO, but could have been even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Philster Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 surprised to see Billy Shaw named a few times....he's enshrined in Canton I agree on Antowain Smith...had a very good rookie season....his running style changed in 98 and 99 under Bishop Harris for the worse but was getting better late in his last season here with a new RB coach John Holocek...his nickname in college was Nitschke...at Illinois, Nitschke's alma mater. Was hurt in 95, backed up Spielman in 96 and through 97 until Spielman got injured and he was a key piece to the puzzle when the Bills switched mid-week from a 3-4 to a 4-3 at MLB. When the team switched back to a 3-4 a few weeks into the 98 season to get Cowart onto the field as the MoLB, Holocek kept plugging up holes while Cowart got the accolades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnychemo Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Jeff Wright was one hell of a NT for being undersized , & don't forget Jerry Butler , he was a great receiver it's to bad his career was cut short !!! I think I read somewhere (maybe Marv's book) that Jeff Wright was always worried he was going to get cut because he wasn't big/good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderweb Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Marlon Kerner Nate Odomes Leonard Smith Henry Jones John Fina Joe Ferguson Reggie McKenzie Daryle Lamonica The name Marlon Kerner rings a bell. He was becoming a very good corner until he got hurt. If I recall, he played a fair amount of nickle as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
please stop the pain Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I don't remember him hitting harder than Antoine Winfield. Did he really? I always thought that for devastating hits there was no one better than Leonard Smith. Unfortunately he seemed to average around one of these per game out of bounds. Great hits; bad personal fouls. Did make some receivers somewhat twitchy though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Paul Costa. 2 time all-star at TE---avg 17 yds per catch for career.Then made mid-career move to offensive tackle. Yet no one has mentioned him. Talented ,versatile guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Blizzard Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 (edited) Mike Lodish - Always came to play. He played in 6 Superbowls John Kidd - I would have preferred him over Rick Tuten in '90. Leonard Smith - Added a mean-streak to our secondary Jim Ritcher - 16 years. Enough said. Jerry Butler - One of our better receivers that is seldom mentioned Gary Baldinger - Just because... James Lofton (Has anyone even mentioned him?) Travis Henry - Personality and character aside, he was a very solid RB. Mark Pike - Great special teams guy and he was here for a decade.. Mike Lodish John Kidd Regrets Edited October 22, 2011 by Mr_Blizzard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 John Fina SUCKED...Total turnstile. Kelly retired because the guy sucked so badly. Bad choice. Not to mention~ I met the fat drunk at a bar in Scottsdale and he was a puddle and told me he thought the town/city of Buffalo sucked, and was a dump and that was why he was living in Arizona...You never heard Kent Hull say that. Fina was a big time doosh sorry the dude wasn't nice to you...but he was a good lineman who played with 17 other offensive lineman during he time with the Bills. Being an jerk doesn't make him better or worse, he was a good player they never helped - that's all I'm saying I think I read somewhere (maybe Marv's book) that Jeff Wright was always worried he was going to get cut because he wasn't big/good enough. wright was a descent pass rusher but he couldn't stop the run, very light pushed around the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Elbert Dubenion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Honestly, I like Moulds, but I think he was more overrated than underrated. When he started to experience success, I always kind of thought he put as much effort into trying to convince refs that he was interfered with, rather than trying to catch the damn ball. I realize, this may have been later in his career, but I thing after the huge year he had in 2002 with Bledsoe, his effort slipped a bit. Used to really frustrate me, watching him belly-ache to the refs, after every play that went in his direction. Great player, IMO, but could have been even better. Moulds was a great player with the worst group of QB's to play with your could dream up Kelly-Collins-Flutie-Johnson-Van Pelt-Bledsoe-Holcomb-Losman - 8 different quarterbacks in 10 years now go build some chemistry. He has some issues off the field but was a hell of a player. all time 764 and 9995 yards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonborn10 Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 The St. Petersburg Times ran an article today called "Top Ten Most Underappreciated Buccaneers". Pretty interesting stuff. Since it's a bye week, thought I'd run through my list of all-time underappreciated Bills (in no particular order). And no, you can't include Phil Hansen. If you're name is on the friggin' wall, you can't be friggin' underappreciated. 1. Jim Braxton. Did the dirty work for O.J. Powerful runner in his own right. 2. Bobby Chandler. One of the best possession receivers in Bills' history. Great blocker for O.J., especially for someone his size. Had a bunch of productive seasons after being traded to Oakland. 3. Mark Pike. Bad luck being a great special teams player on a team with the best special teams player of all time. 4. Frank Lewis. Jerry Butler had more flash but Lewis put together several strong seasons with the Bills. 5. Jim Ritcher. What was it? Something like sixteen years of solid left guard play? 6. Charles Rhomes. I remember him being a pretty good cornerback for us for a long time. 7. Pete Metzelaars. Strange career. Started for us for a bunch of years. Got benched for a few years in favor of Keith McKellar and then started again for a bunch of years after McKellar was gone. Strong blocker and dependable receiver. 8. Derrick Burroughs. He was really, really good. Better CB than Nate Odomes. Always thought we would have won Super Bowl XXV if he hadn't suffered career ended injury in 1989. 9. Daryl Talley. Underappreciated for first half of career. Pretty well appreciated after 1990. 10. Fred Jackson. He'll be off this list soon enough. Pay the man! Talley is on the wall. And while I'm sure others would disagree I don't think he should be. I think he was an average LB playing behind one of the best DE's to ever play the game. He wasn't even the best OLB on the team. And his play in the SuperBowl against the Giants was so bad, he is one of the main reasons they lost. Great thread, hats off to the OP, and great comment above, Buftex. Just to help out the younglings a bit, after Thurman Thomas and OJ Simpson the third all time leading rusher for the Bills even given his limited time here is Joe Cribbs (I believe about 4,500 yards). I still to this day don't think he was used as much in the pass as he could have been because he had great hands. If he doesn't have a contract dispute and doesn't run off to the USFL he could have ended with about 8,000 - 9,000 yards rushing for this team and more than 400 grabs. Cribbs was a great player. Had RW paid him there may not have been back to back 2-14 seasons and Ground Chuck may have stayed longer. I would add Reuben Brown. Solid lineman for many years. I want to do that cross country ride with him one of these years. Ruben Brown went to 8 ProBowls with the Bills - hard to say he was underapprecaited by the national media or other players. He is only underappreciated in Buffalo. That Still have no idea why he didn't get the love from Bills fans that say Wolford (even though he totally screwed us), House Ballard, and Rithcer did. Agreed. When the Bills "got good" from 1988-1990, I would hazard a guess that Norwoods' leg won the Bills a good 8 or 9 games. That kick in Super Bowl 25 was not a chip shot, like some presume. He wasn't never known for having an extra strong leg, but a very accurate one. Anything outside of 45 yards was outside his "automatic" zone. He missed. That is all that matters. He was kicking in near perfect conditions and he missed. The kick would have been good from 55 yards at least. He tried to overcompensate and he missed. It is not too much of a stretch to say the future of the entire region may have been different if he makes that kick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 How the #%@# could the kick could have been good from 55 yards at least when it wasn't good from 47? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma Pecoraro Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 How the #%@# could the kick could have been good from 55 yards at least when it wasn't good from 47? The kick had enough leg was probably the point. Like Fitzpatrick this weekend, Norwood tried to explain away his failure by citing 'technique' issues, i.e he didn't get his hips around. If you've been playing the game for 20+ years, including at the highest level, technique should be the least of your problems. A lot of guys mentioned in this thread as under-appreciated were either mediocre or insignificant, notable only as trivia for Bills fans. Others were plenty appreciated when they played in Buffalo, just not as superstars. Gary Balidinger? Sean McNanie? John Kidd and Mike Lodish. Part time or no time players. Might as well say Eddie Fuller, Yonel Jourdain, Mickey Washngton, Al Edwards. One player that was allowed to leave and had a steady above average career was Marvcus Patton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 I think Eddie Fuller holds the record for all time preseason rush yards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Philster Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 The name Marlon Kerner rings a bell. He was becoming a very good corner until he got hurt. If I recall, he played a fair amount of nickle as well. definitely...he and Ken Irvin were drafted in 95...in 95, Kerner was at nickel and in 96, Irvin got it...Kerner got it back in 97 and when T Smith left speculation was that Kerner would get the starting job. Unfortunately, the knee injury he suffered at the end of 97 was followed up with another more severe one to start 98 which ended his career. Speaking of him, Ken Irvin got a lot of flack for his play after Jeff Burris left. In 1998, Ken got the open RCB spot when Smith left for Chicago and while not a great CB, was pretty solid for a couple of seasons. Antoine Winfield was drafted in 99 and played at nickel most of the season until Irvin got hurt. Winfield was inserted into the starting lineup at RCB. The following season, when Burris was gone, rather than switch Winfield to LCB to take the open slot, they moved Irvin over to LCB where he had never played before in his entire career in Buffalo. Even before he became the starter at RCB, he always played at that position in camps with Kerner usually taking LCB and Irvin at RCB. His body wasn't accustomed to the switch...there were times I noticed, before he was benched for Clements, he hesitated coming out of his backpedal when defending a WR along the sidelines. He had, for 5 seasons, played on the right side of the field and came out of his backpedal turning to his right to keep step with the WR. In 2000, at LCB, he would start to turn right coming out of his backpedal sometimes which hurt his chances of keeping up with the WR. Other times, he started to turn right but then caught himself and turned left...but that hurt him even more and got him way out of position. Had the coaching staff had more foresight in his first 3 years and not kept him on one side of the field all the time, I think Irvin would be thought of more highly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Beard Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 One player that was allowed to leave and had a steady above average career was Marvcus Patton. I was thinking of adding Marvcus Patton to the conversation. Good player, great name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Talley is on the wall. And while I'm sure others would disagree I don't think he should be. I think he was an average LB playing behind one of the best DE's to ever play the game. He wasn't even the best OLB on the team. And his play in the SuperBowl against the Giants was so bad, he is one of the main reasons they lost. Cribbs was a great player. Had RW paid him there may not have been back to back 2-14 seasons and Ground Chuck may have stayed longer. Ruben Brown went to 8 ProBowls with the Bills - hard to say he was underapprecaited by the national media or other players. He is only underappreciated in Buffalo. That Still have no idea why he didn't get the love from Bills fans that say Wolford (even though he totally screwed us), House Ballard, and Rithcer did. He missed. That is all that matters. He was kicking in near perfect conditions and he missed. The kick would have been good from 55 yards at least. He tried to overcompensate and he missed. It is not too much of a stretch to say the future of the entire region may have been different if he makes that kick. Overall, Ruben Brown was a very good player... but he made some critical mistakes at the worst possible times that directly led to losses.. and then the POS quit on the team in 2003 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Jay Riemersma. The guy played his heart out and was not given a contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Beard Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Jay Riemersma. The guy played his heart out and was not given a contract. :worthy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 I was thinking of adding Marvcus Patton to the conversation. Good player, great name. I was thinking of adding his mother to the conversation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Blizzard Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Gary Balidinger? Sean McNanie? John Kidd and Mike Lodish. Part time or no time players. Might as well say Eddie Fuller, Yonel Jourdain, Mickey Washngton, Al Edwards. See - you don't appreciate those guys either. THEY ARE UNDER APPRECIATED!!! Bahahahahaaaaaa And thanks for the props for Al Edwards. He had a huge touchdown catch for us. As a matter of fact, I think it was his ONLY touchdown catch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma Pecoraro Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 And thanks for the props for Al Edwards. He had a huge touchdown catch for us. As a matter of fact, I think it was his ONLY touchdown catch! I still wonder what would have happened if Tasker was the 3 receiver in SB XXV instead of Al Edwards. I don;t think the Giants could have handled it, and I have no idea why Marv didn't think of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbonehawaii Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 The St. Petersburg Times ran an article today called "Top Ten Most Underappreciated Buccaneers". Pretty interesting stuff. Since it's a bye week, thought I'd run through my list of all-time underappreciated Bills (in no particular order). And no, you can't include Phil Hansen. If you're name is on the friggin' wall, you can't be friggin' underappreciated. 1. Jim Braxton. Did the dirty work for O.J. Powerful runner in his own right. 2. Bobby Chandler. One of the best possession receivers in Bills' history. Great blocker for O.J., especially for someone his size. Had a bunch of productive seasons after being traded to Oakland. 3. Mark Pike. Bad luck being a great special teams player on a team with the best special teams player of all time. 4. Frank Lewis. Jerry Butler had more flash but Lewis put together several strong seasons with the Bills. 5. Jim Ritcher. What was it? Something like sixteen years of solid left guard play? 6. Charles Rhomes. I remember him being a pretty good cornerback for us for a long time. 7. Pete Metzelaars. Strange career. Started for us for a bunch of years. Got benched for a few years in favor of Keith McKellar and then started again for a bunch of years after McKellar was gone. Strong blocker and dependable receiver. 8. Derrick Burroughs. He was really, really good. Better CB than Nate Odomes. Always thought we would have won Super Bowl XXV if he hadn't suffered career ended injury in 1989. 9. Daryl Talley. Underappreciated for first half of career. Pretty well appreciated after 1990. 10. Fred Jackson. He'll be off this list soon enough. Pay the man! No Phil Hanson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Blizzard Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 I still wonder what would have happened if Tasker was the 3 receiver in SB XXV instead of Al Edwards. I don;t think the Giants could have handled it, and I have no idea why Marv didn't think of it. To be serious a minute, I think if we had John Kidd instead of Tuten, Fred Smerlas instead of J. Wright, and Tasker as a 3rd/4th receiver, we would have blown the Giants out. Plus giving Thurman a few more touches would have helped. Memories . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma Pecoraro Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 I'm just curious about Tasker in that situation. Edwards was an abortion and had key drops. Tasker was faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Why the eff wasn't Tasker playing WR all along. He was so good at it towards the end of his career. I've heard people say that he was too small and would be hurt all the time.......Was that it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Philster Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Why the eff wasn't Tasker playing WR all along. He was so good at it towards the end of his career. I've heard people say that he was too small and would be hurt all the time.......Was that it? He was too valuable to special teams is the only reason I ever heard..but yeah, he was a solid WR as well as shown in 95 when Reed was out for most of the season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Why the eff wasn't Tasker playing WR all along. He was so good at it towards the end of his career. I've heard people say that he was too small and would be hurt all the time.......Was that it? He could have been our version of Wes Welker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 He could have been our version of Wes Welker. That's exactly what he could have been! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benderbender Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 aaron maybin Todd Collins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 jeff Nixon, JD Hill, Sestak, Dunaway, Mcdole and Day as a combined defensive line, (awesome) John Fina (many will argue about him I'm sure) Ernie Warlick. Wray Carlton has been mentioned, but I'd include him as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Blizzard Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 Todd Collins O M G ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 Chris Watson?? That's like putting JP Losman on the list. "He made a couple of nice throws." Or Dick Jauron. "He's just as good as Belichick." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 Chris Watson?? That's like putting JP Losman on the list. "He made a couple of nice throws." Or Dick Jauron. "He's just as good as Belichick." "He's not a punt returner… he's more of a punt catcher" Bills Head Coach at the time, Wade Phillips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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