GG Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 It's got eleven-foot walls and a gate designed along medieval "bent entrance" lines (you apparently have to pass through two gates, then around a corner and through a gatehouse to get access to the compound - great design if you're facing battering rams and trebuchets, mildly stupid if you're facing helicopters). Security costs - even mildly stupid security. My guess is that this is the boomerang complacency of 9/11. He thought that there's no way the compound would be attacked through the air in the middle of Pakistan. That's a long way for helicopters to travel without attracting notice from somebody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 (edited) Doc he gave up the life of a Saudi billionaire to live in caves and fight side by side with rebels in afghan against the soviets. One of the things that made him appealing to his followers. We'll never know for sure because we weren't there. Id love to see video of how it all went down though. They said the shooting started in the house 40 minutes before they got to obl. Seems odd he wouldnt have been more prepared than to stick a woman in front of him when the seals kicked the door down. Guy was evil but not dumb, how could he think that would so him any good? Edited May 3, 2011 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Nice tip o' the hat to Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton that the Seal Team 6 left a burning helicopter as their calling card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Obama a bit luckier than Carter (with regard to operation Eagle Claw)? Supposedly a helo went down off the bat. ?? Just imagine the outrage if it failed... Or worse... They were wrong with the intell. Gotta admit, a VERY ballsy move. Nice tip o' the hat to Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton that the Seal Team 6 left a burning helicopter as their calling card. Helicopters are one of those things that always amazes me... When they laid at my work in the parking lot... I always cringe! Everything is always too close for comfort! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Regardless of who the President is or what party he is affiliated with, I would expect a press conference. This is the biggest accomplishment in the war on terror. Much credit to our troops, the Obama Administration and the Bush Administration for making this possible. Certainly a great deal of credit goes to the work put in by a huge number of people over the last ten years from the military and both administrations, and ultimately to Obama for making the call to green-light the operation. But an impromptu television address about it just struck me as odd; our government usually downplays such events rather than giving them additional attention. Maybe the event was just more significant to others than it was to me. I was there to see the WTC attacks, but after ten years I find the impact of killing OBL to be greatly reduced. Sure I'm glad he's dead, but it doesn't change the permanent impact 9-11 has on our culture and does it really change much on the AQ end of the equation? Seems like he was pretty much retired from the gang anyway. I might have expected to see people celebrating in the streets had this happened in 2002, but not 2011. Did people honestly feel different about the world today because he was dead? I didn't. Either way, not a big deal, just questioning the need. But naturally that brought out some of our more thin-skinned left wingers to scream about 'partisanship'. Thanks for the laugh guys. Just imagine the outrage if it failed... Or worse... They were wrong with the intell. Gotta admit, a VERY ballsy move. I'm guessing there wouldn't have been a speech. Always a lot of risk in those kinds of operations, but this is just one out of thousands in the GWOT, no? So I don't think there would have been outrage if it had failed (who says we would have even known what the mission was if it didn't succeed). The 'outrage' over the Iran mess in 1980 was mostly about the frustration that they still had our people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 (edited) Gotta admit... Obama went "rogue"... Especially ballsy with not sharing intell... Violating Pakistani soverignty... It is a gutsy call. I really didn't think Obama had it in him. Yikes... Literally OBL hiding in plain sight, surrounded by a lot of Pakistani military. I wonder how things will play out with Pakistan... Edited May 3, 2011 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 (edited) Thatt policy really started with bush. There was an acknowledgment the Paki army and intelligence was sympathetic to al Qaeda so if we wanted anything we'd pay off the prime minister enough to make him happy and then simply over ride the military. Edited May 3, 2011 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Gotta admit... Obama went "rogue"... Especially ballsy with not sharing intell... Violating Paki soverignty... It is a gutsy call. I really didn't think Obama had it in him. Yikes... Literally OBL hiding in plain sight, surrounded by a lot of Paki military. I wonder how things will play out with Pakistan... I hope you know that your description of Pakistanis is the equivalent of the n-word to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 I hope you know that your description of Pakistanis is the equivalent of the n-word to them. I am truly sorry... I really didn't know that! I will go back and change that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacka Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 I hope you know that your description of Pakistanis is the equivalent of the n-word to them. Who gives an F***. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew in CA Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 "I will mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy." MLK When did MLK say that? I've never heard that quote before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 I am truly sorry... I really didn't know that! I will go back and change that! EiIL, did you star in this film? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 EiIL, did you star in this film? youtube.com/watch?v=H0jkv2bRFgQ What is your point? I didn't want to offend anybody... There is nothing wrong with apologizing. When did MLK say that? I've never heard that quote before. A quick Google search: "I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that." ~Martin Luther King Jr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 I heard on the radio yesterday that OBL took a double tap to the left side of his head/face. NICE!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Who gives an F***. People with good manners? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Certainly a great deal of credit goes to the work put in by a huge number of people over the last ten years from the military and both administrations, and ultimately to Obama for making the call to green-light the operation. But an impromptu television address about it just struck me as odd; our government usually downplays such events rather than giving them additional attention. Maybe the event was just more significant to others than it was to me. I was there to see the WTC attacks, but after ten years I find the impact of killing OBL to be greatly reduced. Sure I'm glad he's dead, but it doesn't change the permanent impact 9-11 has on our culture and does it really change much on the AQ end of the equation? Seems like he was pretty much retired from the gang anyway. I might have expected to see people celebrating in the streets had this happened in 2002, but not 2011. Did people honestly feel different about the world today because he was dead? I didn't. Kinda my feelings as well. had this happened 8-9 years ago, it would have meant a hell of a lot more. I don't really care about the speech one way or another, as any president would have done something similar. Had this happened before either of the two wars, or the Patriot Act, this could have possibly helped shape this country for the better. While I'm glad he's dead, and I'm proud that we were able make the right call and to effectively act on good intelligence, I do not feel any different today than I did last week. The world's not safer, AQ isn't gone, we're not done in the Middle East because of this. To me, taking out Saddam will have had a greater effect in this world than taking out Bin Laden will have. Good day for America? Bittersweet to me at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 (edited) Good read in the NY Times taking you through the details so far disclosed. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/03/world/asia/03intel.html?partner=rss&emc=rss The code name for Bin Laden was “Geronimo.” The president and his advisers watched Leon E. Panetta, the C.I.A. director, on a video screen, narrating from his agency’s headquarters across the Potomac River what was happening in faraway Pakistan. “They’ve reached the target,” he said. Minutes passed. “We have a visual on Geronimo,” he said. A few minutes later: “Geronimo EKIA.” Enemy Killed In Action. There was silence in the Situation Room. Finally, the president spoke up. “We got him.” Edited May 3, 2011 by Peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Kinda my feelings as well. had this happened 8-9 years ago, it would have meant a hell of a lot more. I don't really care about the speech one way or another, as any president would have done something similar. Had this happened before either of the two wars, or the Patriot Act, this could have possibly helped shape this country for the better. While I'm glad he's dead, and I'm proud that we were able make the right call and to effectively act on good intelligence, I do not feel any different today than I did last week. The world's not safer, AQ isn't gone, we're not done in the Middle East because of this. To me, taking out Saddam will have had a greater effect in this world than taking out Bin Laden will have. Good day for America? Bittersweet to me at best. Good to see you aren't letting partisan politics cloud your opinions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Kinda my feelings as well. had this happened 8-9 years ago, it would have meant a hell of a lot more. I don't really care about the speech one way or another, as any president would have done something similar. Had this happened before either of the two wars, or the Patriot Act, this could have possibly helped shape this country for the better. While I'm glad he's dead, and I'm proud that we were able make the right call and to effectively act on good intelligence, I do not feel any different today than I did last week. The world's not safer, AQ isn't gone, we're not done in the Middle East because of this. To me, taking out Saddam will have had a greater effect in this world than taking out Bin Laden will have. Good day for America? Bittersweet to me at best. Joe Miner = Joe Lieberman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 (edited) Good to see you aren't letting partisan politics cloud your opinions... Edit for clarification: In my previous post, greater doesn't mean better. more significant, larger effect/impact is what I was trying to imply. Now, if you want to continue to argue the partisan point: Good to see you're an idiot. How will taking out Bin Laden change the world? Taking out Ghadaffi (or however it's spelled) will have a more significant impact on the world than taking out Bin Laden. Edited May 3, 2011 by Joe Miner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 My question is, why did we give that piece of garbage Muslim burial rites? We should have treated him with the same respect and courtesy his Somalian lackeys showed our soldiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 What is your point? I didn't want to offend anybody... There is nothing wrong with apologizing. I'm just joshin' ya, EiIL. There isn't anything wrong with apologizing. My question is, why did we give that piece of garbage Muslim burial rites? We should have treated him with the same respect and courtesy his Somalian lackeys showed our soldiers. "Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like A Mofo Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 "I will mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy (unless it helps some politician that I blindly cheer for that really does not give a rat's ass about me or anyone else) ." Libs and Cons Edited for accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 (edited) Edit for clarification: In my previous post, greater doesn't mean better. more significant, larger effect/impact is what I was trying to imply. Now, if you want to continue to argue the partisan point: Good to see you're an idiot. How will taking out Bin Laden change the world? Taking out Ghadaffi (or however it's spelled) will have a more significant impact on the world than taking out Bin Laden. Great response...you make an idiotic statement, attempt to clarify your idiotic statement, in an iditoic way, call someone else an idiot, and then change the subject.... Edited May 3, 2011 by Buftex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Great response...you make an idiotic statement, attempt to clarify your idiotic statement, in an iditoic way, call someone else an idiot, and then change the subject.... And this tactic is new to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 not sure if this has been addressed but my cynical self has to say it... Not sure I buy what is being reported. I have heard too many conflicting reports of the timing of the mission etc...did it happen sunday afternoon or did it happen early in the weekend, thereby allowing time to get dna proof. I have no doubt OBL is dead, but I wouldn't be a bit surprised if he has been dead for years and this was the time to make it official with some grand account. They instantly 'bury' him at sea, no pictures of it yet, giving everyone plenty of time to build the back story. Just doesn't sit well with me, and I hope I am completely off base. Mind you, I am not criticizing any of the officials for this report. I think announcing OBL is dead is a good thing for the Country and the World and I feel that this was done as a psychological boost and it is a great move. There would be no 'glory' in announcing that OBL withered away and died from liver failure. I applaud how this account has been handled(even if it is a big elaborate story). I just feel there is waaaaay more to it then we will ever know. OK, i gotta go put my aluminum foil helmet on and wait for the end of the world.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 not sure if this has been addressed but my cynical self has to say it... Not sure I buy what is being reported. I have heard too many conflicting reports of the timing of the mission etc...did it happen sunday afternoon or did it happen early in the weekend, thereby allowing time to get dna proof. I have no doubt OBL is dead, but I wouldn't be a bit surprised if he has been dead for years and this was the time to make it official with some grand account. They instantly 'bury' him at sea, no pictures of it yet, giving everyone plenty of time to build the back story. Just doesn't sit well with me, and I hope I am completely off base. Mind you, I am not criticizing any of the officials for this report. I think announcing OBL is dead is a good thing for the Country and the World and I feel that this was done as a psychological boost and it is a great move. There would be no 'glory' in announcing that OBL withered away and died from liver failure. I applaud how this account has been handled(even if it is a big elaborate story). I just feel there is waaaaay more to it then we will ever know. OK, i gotta go put my aluminum foil helmet on and wait for the end of the world.... there are some details that need clearing up.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 there are some details that need clearing up.... D-Day happened nearly 70 years ago and there are still plenty of details that need to be clear up. Jesus, why does everyone need to know everything and why do they need that information NOW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booster4324 Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 not sure if this has been addressed but my cynical self has to say it... Not sure I buy what is being reported. I have heard too many conflicting reports of the timing of the mission etc...did it happen sunday afternoon or did it happen early in the weekend, thereby allowing time to get dna proof. I have no doubt OBL is dead, but I wouldn't be a bit surprised if he has been dead for years and this was the time to make it official with some grand account. They instantly 'bury' him at sea, no pictures of it yet, giving everyone plenty of time to build the back story. Just doesn't sit well with me, and I hope I am completely off base. Mind you, I am not criticizing any of the officials for this report. I think announcing OBL is dead is a good thing for the Country and the World and I feel that this was done as a psychological boost and it is a great move. There would be no 'glory' in announcing that OBL withered away and died from liver failure. I applaud how this account has been handled(even if it is a big elaborate story). I just feel there is waaaaay more to it then we will ever know. OK, i gotta go put my aluminum foil helmet on and wait for the end of the world.... Maybe this? Typical lab-based DNA matching tests like this can take up to 14 days; they're painstaking and need to be repeated several times to ensure the sample's not contaminated from any other DNA sources. But that's not necessarily the only way to do these tests: late in 2010, a University of Arizona team presented research on a machine that can do the analysis in just two hours in a largely automated way. It's possible that knowing they were engaged on a mission to capture bin Laden, U.S. forces arranged for access to a machine like this to be on quick alert - probably for flying blood, cheek cells, and other samples taken from the body to the lab for expedited analysis. Eaton also pointed out that DNA matching isn't an exact science and that sibling matching is even less exact: "It all comes down to a probability, with a statement like, 'There's a 1 in 1 quadrillion chance this isn't the same person in both DNA samples.' In other words: conspiracy theorists still have something to talk about." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Maybe this? Fake. Just like the WTC demolition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Great response...you make an idiotic statement, attempt to clarify your idiotic statement, in an iditoic way, call someone else an idiot, and then change the subject.... So now that I've dumbed it down to where you can begin to understand what I was saying, do you still want to argue and call people partisan, or would you care to retract what you said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Fake. Just like the WTC demolition. The WTC demolition was fake?? You mean they're still there? Did they cover them with invisible paint or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 (edited) So now that I've dumbed it down to where you can begin to understand what I was saying, do you still want to argue and call people partisan, or would you care to retract what you said? You can't dumb things down any more than the original statement. I wasn't trying to argue, just commending you on your ability to spin everyting in a partisan way. Edited May 3, 2011 by Buftex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 The WTC demolition was fake?? You mean they're still there? Did they cover them with invisible paint or something? Ah, that David Copperfield. What a joker, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 (edited) You can't dumb things down any more than the original statement. I wasn't trying to argue, just commending you on your ability to see everyting in a partisan way. And how do you see a statement saying that the removal of Saddam in 2003/2004 will be more significant than the death of Bin Laden in 2011 as partisan? Because clearly you're reading something into that statement that isn't there. But I would expect that from an idiot. Edited May 3, 2011 by Joe Miner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Well I knew the "woman was killed acting as obl shield" was a bit fishy. Now theyre reporting the dead woman was on a different floor than obl. And the woman with him was shot in the leg and survived. . Hardly what you expect from a "shield" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 I was there on sunday...and i thought i saw some paint brushes laying around...they did do a great job on the painting though...it really appears as if there is another building being constructed The WTC demolition was fake?? You mean they're still there? Did they cover them with invisible paint or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Well I knew the "woman was killed acting as obl shield" was a bit fishy. Now theyre reporting the dead woman was on a different floor than obl. And the woman with him was shot in the leg and survived. . Hardly what you expect from a "shield" You do realize that most of the early reporting came from 2nd & 3rd hand accounts, so it's not surprising that there are many inconsistencies? AFAIK, there has been no detailed account of the events offered by CIA or Pentagon yet, so everything is still being pieced together from various sources who may not have any detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 (edited) Ummmm no I wasn't aware of that. But I'm quite sure the reports are coming from administration press conferences and officials speaking off the record who are usually trusted sources for major media outlets. If you have the data showing it's all 3rd hand then put it forth. Not sure why anyone would care since the only people there were seals, dead or muzzled in a Paki jail. Anyway the main point was the fishiness of the woman shield story, and how peope were nonetheless reacting to it. Its turning out to have been worthy of skepticism. Edited May 3, 2011 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Ummmm no I wasn't aware of that. But I'm quite sure the reports are coming from administration press conferences and officials speaking off the record who are usually trusted sources for major media outlets. If you have the data showing it's all 3rd hand then put it forth. Not sure why anyone would care since the only people there were seals, dead or muzzled in a Paki jail. Anyway the main point was the fishiness of the woman shield story, and how peope were nonetheless reacting to it. Its turning out to have been worthy of skepticism. If the source is from administration officials, then it's at least a 3rd person account, because A: they're not the guys in combat and B: not the commanding officer. So do the math. And the female human shield story has changed from Osama using a woman as a human shield to his courier using a human shield. Easy to see how the two got transposed in the initial reports. In any event, if the US was going to go through the trouble of orchestrating this kill, wouldn't it be an easier sell to kill him in some remote mountain dugout, instead of middle of Pakistan, knowing that you will inflame an already tense relationship in the latter? Are people at all capable of non-serial thought? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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