Buftex Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Ummmm no I wasn't aware of that. But I'm quite sure the reports are coming from administration press conferences and officials speaking off the record who are usually trusted sources for major media outlets. If you have the data showing it's all 3rd hand then put it forth. Not sure why anyone would care since the only people there were seals, dead or muzzled in a Paki jail. Anyway the main point was the fishiness of the woman shield story, and how peope were nonetheless reacting to it. Its turning out to have been worthy of skepticism. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/03/white-house-revises-bin-laden-final-moments_n_857073.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk3%7C60282 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 (edited) If the source is from administration officials, then it's at least a 3rd person account, because A: they're not the guys in combat and B: not the commanding officer. So do the math. And the female human shield story has changed from Osama using a woman as a human shield to his courier using a human shield. Easy to see how the two got transposed in the initial reports. In any event, if the US was going to go through the trouble of orchestrating this kill, wouldn't it be an easier sell to kill him in some remote mountain dugout, instead of middle of Pakistan, knowing that you will inflame an already tense relationship in the latter? Are people at all capable of non-serial thought? ummm, it's unlikely we'll ever hear from the seals who did the actual shooting. So if that's your standard then we'll never know anything. But we are hearing from people in the State Department, Pentagon and President who were in direct contact with the mission. Their initial report came out basically as a script which they wanted to read "no civilian, women or children casualties. If any of the above are killed claim they were being used as shields by OBL. Also claim OBL was buried at sea to respect Muslim traditions." Now we're finding out neither of those OFFICIAL releases were accurate. Back to your regularly scheduled fantasy ... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/03/white-house-revises-bin-laden-final-moments_n_857073.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk3%7C60282 "Reading from a script carefully crafted by the Defense Department" exactly what they were doing with the initial releases ... reading a script of how they wanted the world to think it went down. Edited May 3, 2011 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Back to your regularly scheduled fantasy ... Back to your regularly scheduled "it's none of your !@#$ing business!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 "Paki" is a racial slur? I thought it was just shorthand. I guess this explains why Wilsonians get so pissed when I call them Wilsonites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 "Paki" is a racial slur? I thought it was just shorthand. I guess this explains why Wilsonians get so pissed when I call them Wilsonites Yes it is a racial slur. Try passing off a simple shorthand to your Japanese friend and see if he agrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 "Paki" is a racial slur? I thought it was just shorthand. Head over to England. You'll hear the BNP lackeys throwing it around all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 What about "Pacman"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Now we're finding out neither of those OFFICIAL releases were accurate. Which usually happens when you rely on third person accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Yes it is a racial slur. Try passing off a simple shorthand to your Japanese friend and see if he agrees. This explains so much. I thought the middle finger was just a Japanese way of saying hi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Which usually happens when you rely on third person accounts. Lol @ Panetta on the wire with seals as the operation went down as "3rd person" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Lol @ Panetta on the wire with seals as the operation went down as "3rd person" Let's do the math 1. Navy Seal 2. Panetta 3. Whoever you heard it from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Let's do the math 1. Navy Seal 2. Panetta 3. Whoever you heard it from. And an official white house briefing therein would actually be considered one source. As I stated earlier if you're waiting for the seals to tell it directly don't hold your breath; their identities may never be made publicly available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Head over to England. You'll hear the BNP lackeys throwing it around all the time. I asked a co-worker after work last night and that is what he said... He lived ouside of London for a while before coming back to work here in the States (his ex-wife is from England). My question is, why did we give that piece of garbage Muslim burial rites? We should have treated him with the same respect and courtesy his Somalian lackeys showed our soldiers. :wallbash: Separate your emotions from your rational head. I am not knocking your emotions... You have every right to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 I'm confused. I thought we were a nation of laws and he would have to be captured, brought to the US and tried in a Federal court in Manhattan with all the rights afforded to enemy combatants under the Geneva Convention and the US Constitution. What happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 (edited) I'm confused. I thought we were a nation of laws and he would have to be captured, brought to the US and tried in a Federal court in Manhattan with all the rights afforded to enemy combatants under the Geneva Convention and the US Constitution. What happened? My gut feeling? He committed suicide. Really. If he did, you think they would dare to say the truth? IMO, you make him look like a dog, clinging to life and the material world. Works great for secular guys like Gaddafi or Saddam Hussein... They would fall right into line. Kinda a sticky issue with OBL. NO way should we make him look like a martyr. I wanna see the videos and photos of the op? Is that possible? Actually the shot that took him out? Put everything to rest. Edited May 3, 2011 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 I'm confused. I thought we were a nation of laws and he would have to be captured, brought to the US and tried in a Federal court in Manhattan with all the rights afforded to enemy combatants under the Geneva Convention and the US Constitution. What happened? What? We try every enemy combatant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 I wanna see the videos and photos of the op? Is that possible? Actually the shot that took him out? Put everything to rest. Do you have ANY idea how high video of a SEAL mission like that would be classified? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 (edited) "I will mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy." MLK BTW, MLK didn't say this. Some chick on Facebook made it up and put it before a real quote by MLK, and some friends quoted the whole thing, thus creating the impression that he said it. Edited May 4, 2011 by Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 BTW, MLK didn't say this. Some chick on Facebook made it up and put it before a real quote by MLK, and some friends quoted the whole thing, thus creating the impression that he said it. here's a real MLK quote We must develop and maintain the capacity to forgive. He who is devoid of the power to forgive is devoid of the power to love. There is some good in the worst of us and some evil in the best of us. When we discover this, we are less prone to hate our enemies. Martin Luther King, Jr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronc24 Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 here's a real MLK quote We must develop and maintain the capacity to forgive. He who is devoid of the power to forgive is devoid of the power to love. There is some good in the worst of us and some evil in the best of us. When we discover this, we are less prone to hate our enemies. Martin Luther King, Jr. So...just so I have this straight....the good in Osama should have been considered before he died like the B word he was? Or should the SEALS have sung kumbaya with him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 So...just so I have this straight....the good in Osama should have been considered before he died like the B word he was? Or should the SEALS have sung kumbaya with him? Absolutely not. But there is nothing wrong with reflecting on what he probably was, before becoming a terrorist. Had things been different, he easily could have been one of the people who perished on 9/11. He wasn't though, and we did what had to be done. A great tragedy is that people like Osama Bin Laden and Adolph Hitler could have been great boons to the world. They had the brain power and leadership ability to do this. Another thing- we just over politicize everything nowadays. President Bush made some good decisions that went wrong and some bad decisions that turned out well. Same probably can be said for President Obama (too early to tell). Under it all, both are good people who love America and did what they believed would be in OUR best interest, while under the pressure cooker of Washington- not sitting at home with a bag of cheetos, watching MSNBC or FOX. I am sure President Reagan had his reasons for Iran Contra, but I would like to find a good book on the topic, as I was extremely young at the time. Before we blame our politicians, we should take a good, long look in the mirror! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Do you have ANY idea how high video of a SEAL mission like that would be classified? No. So basically we have to trust what the gov't says... Even in this technological age. Will it ever be declassified? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsSD Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 No. So basically we have to trust what the gov't says... Even in this technological age. Will it ever be declassified? As a Marine with several SEALs as friends I highly doubt we will see this footage. SEAL Team 6 is the most elite and beyond classified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whateverdude Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Another thing you will not read in the media is that the seal team along with the documents captured an Osama body guard/confidant who was injured in the firefight. Well, what do you know I guess the media is going to report this: There were conflicting reports about the second person the US forces took along with them. Some Pakistani officials say it was one of Bin Laden’s sons injured by the US commandos and thrown onto a separate military chopper; others say he was killed in the operation and it was only his dead body that they took along. My link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whateverdude Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Why do they lie to us? The US has known for 4 years, thats 2 administrations, that Osama lived at the compound. They had surveillance on him the whole time gathering intelligents on the network. Obama just pulled the trigger and I don't know why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booster4324 Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Why do they lie to us? The US has known for 4 years, thats 2 administrations, that Osama lived at the compound. They had surveillance on him the whole time gathering intelligents on the network. Obama just pulled the trigger and I don't know why. Link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Why do they lie to us? The US has known for 4 years, thats 2 administrations, that Osama lived at the compound. They had surveillance on him the whole time gathering intelligents on the network. Obama just pulled the trigger and I don't know why. Link? Actually they received intel 4 years ago that led them to the courier. Only recently did they get the intel that UBL was in fact there. Hence the "gutsy" call by Barry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 (edited) CIA Director calls out the Pakistanis ... According to two sources in a closed door briefing, Panetta told lawmakers "either they (Pakistani intelligence) were involved or incompetent. Neither place is a good place to be." .... and they're not happy ... If Panetta made such a comment, the Pakistani intelligence official said, "What worse statement can come than that we heard from Panetta? http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/04/bin.laden.main/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1 Edited May 4, 2011 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Well, what do you know I guess the media is going to report this: My link A part of me honestly wishes Obama keep a lid on this raid for a week or so. It would have allowed some time to filter through the vast amount of intel gathered in the raid and allowed time to possibly pursue time critical leads. Now that the whole world instantly knew his fate the other terrorists instantly knew their plans/locations/network was compromised from the highest level and they are changing their tactics and operations as a result. I guess we could have had an operational advantage by withholding this huge story to try and exploit the plethora of intel that was surely gained in the raid. oh well it is what it is... glad crabs are eating little chunks of his worthless corpse at the bottom of the ocean and he will be crab excrement by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whateverdude Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Link? There is no link and will not tell you how I know this. You can call this BS, in fact I would if I were in your shoes. All I can say in my defense is that I stated here before it hit the media that the Seals captured documents and an injured Osama confidant. Check the timestamps. As far as the US knowing about UBL for 4 years....that may never come out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 There is no link and will not tell you how I know this. You can call this BS, in fact I would if I were in your shoes. All I can say in my defense is that I stated here before it hit the media that the Seals captured documents and an injured Osama confidant. Check the timestamps. As far as the US knowing about UBL for 4 years....that may never come out. Yet in the story you linked above, the "wife" claims that they moved into the house six months ago? So someone is wrong or lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 There is no link and will not tell you how I know this. You can call this BS, in fact I would if I were in your shoes. All I can say in my defense is that I stated here before it hit the media that the Seals captured documents and an injured Osama confidant. Check the timestamps. As far as the US knowing about UBL for 4 years....that may never come out. do you think this all happened when the media/govt said or well before its reported? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whateverdude Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 do you think this all happened when the media/govt said or well before its reported? yes, and he's deader than dead. Some people in intelligence are just miffed and a bit disillusioned that Obama pulled the plug on the operation that was providing such an active intelligence stream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 A part of me honestly wishes Obama keep a lid on this raid for a week or so. It would have allowed some time to filter through the vast amount of intel gathered in the raid and allowed time to possibly pursue time critical leads. Now that the whole world instantly knew his fate the other terrorists instantly knew their plans/locations/network was compromised from the highest level and they are changing their tactics and operations as a result. I guess we could have had an operational advantage by withholding this huge story to try and exploit the plethora of intel that was surely gained in the raid. oh well it is what it is... glad crabs are eating little chunks of his worthless corpse at the bottom of the ocean and he will be crab excrement by now. I agree with you, although I don't know how long they could have kept it under wraps. But apparently one high-level Al Qaida has already surrendered in Sauda Arabia: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110504/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_saudi_al_qaida. Hopefully more arrests/take-downs to follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whateverdude Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Yet in the story you linked above, the "wife" claims that they moved into the house six months ago? So someone is wrong or lying. I have no idea, all I can tell you is that I have heard second hand that they have been surveilling UBL at this location for about 4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 A part of me honestly wishes Obama keep a lid on this raid for a week or so. It would have allowed some time to filter through the vast amount of intel gathered in the raid and allowed time to possibly pursue time critical leads. Now that the whole world instantly knew his fate the other terrorists instantly knew their plans/locations/network was compromised from the highest level and they are changing their tactics and operations as a result. I guess we could have had an operational advantage by withholding this huge story to try and exploit the plethora of intel that was surely gained in the raid. oh well it is what it is... glad crabs are eating little chunks of his worthless corpse at the bottom of the ocean and he will be crab excrement by now. How do they do that when there are 15+ witnesses who lived on the compound hanging out with the Pakistan police? The only way to keep it under wraps, even kind of, would be to take the entire family. With the Black Hawk going down, that was not an option. Who knows if it was part of the plan originally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 How do they do that when there are 15+ witnesses who lived on the compound hanging out with the Pakistan police? The only way to keep it under wraps, even kind of, would be to take the entire family. With the Black Hawk going down, that was not an option. Who knows if it was part of the plan originally? Seeing as how many of the people in ther terrorist group live "off the grid" so to speak in remote locations. word would reach them much later and second hanf if the US didnt publically announce this raid right away. Instead of Achmaed the courier taking 2 weeks to have message delivered that Bin Laden was compromised it was global in a few hours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 I have no idea, all I can tell you is that I have heard second hand that they have been surveilling UBL at this location for about 4 years. And that is consistent with reports that CIA has been tracking the site for 4 years, but didn't know exactly who was in there. So it's the last part of that supposition that is in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whateverdude Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 (edited) I'm also now hearing that there is no coincidence that Obama pulled the plug on this operations days after the announcement that Panetta is leaving the CIA for the Pentagon. Geesh, our media is so slow to put things together. Edited May 4, 2011 by whateverdude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 I'm also now hearing that there is no coincidence that Obama pulled the plug on this operations days after the announcement that Panetta is leaving the CIA for the Pentagon. Geesh, our media is so slow to put things together. I think that was announced last week... interesting coincidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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