Maybe Buudy Did Know something

[BobChalmers]

As for the "better team" who was not satisfied with him, Buffalo outrushed Miami last year, 1720 to 1643 yards and had better yards per carry at 4.3 vs. 3.7. They also gave up fewer sacks, (34 vs 38) and Buffalo outscored Miami as well. Miami had a much better defense than Buffalo, accounting for the few more games they were able to win, but lets not get carried away with Miami's offensive line under the "great" Sparano. Perhaps Richie was actually part of the problem with their subpar line?

 

THANK YOU

 

The Bills-fans insistance on believing everyone else in the league is doing everything better the Bills is just boring, and in many cases, such as much of this thread, actually just plain uninformative.

 

The Bills were devastated by injuries last year, which is the only reason they bothered with a player that another bad team - StL - had already dumped mid-season. As the numbers above nicely illustrate, the Bills have a better OL than the Dolphins, and they're young and improving.

[BADOLBILZ]

You do not need to be a shrewd judge of talent to see that Incognito is average at best, and probably not even that. As for the "better team" who was not satisfied with him, Buffalo outrushed Miami last year, 1720 to 1643 yards and had better yards per carry at 4.3 vs. 3.7. They also gave up fewer sacks, (34 vs 38) and Buffalo outscored Miami as well. Miami had a much better defense than Buffalo, accounting for the few more games they were able to win, but lets not get carried away with Miami's offensive line under the "great" Sparano. Perhaps Richie was actually part of the problem with their subpar line?

 

Cornell Green

 

I watched a few Dolphin games, and Incognito did not get blown up, pushed back, and he seemed atleast servicable in run blocking. There's got to be something else at work here. That's somewhat of a surprise.

 

Jonathan Scott need no fanfare. He barely held his own, had help most of the time, and only saw the field because of the incredible string of injuries to the Pittsburgh tackles.

 

True, he has played in a Super Bowl, but that is more because of his teammates that because of anything that he put together.

 

Next you'll be asking for the return of Langston Walker.

 

Red........it's about Cornell Green. How do you rank those restricted free agents let go in favor of signing a horrendous 34 year old to a multi-year deal. I could really care less if people think that Jon Scott was lousy. Was he better than Green? Yes. Was he cheaper? Yes. End of discussion.

 

the Cornell Green reach was understandable at the time, but they guy just hit the wall.

Jonathon Scott stunk and the Steelers first couople moves will be replacing both Scott and Flozell Adams.

He did start for Pittsburgh and they did make the super bowl, but is similiar to the San Francisco Giants picking up Mike Fontenot and the former Cub then goes on to win the world series.

 

Cornell Green hit the wall about a decade ago. He was the Raiders worst OL. His signing was anything but understandable.

[Green Lightning]

You do not need to be a shrewd judge of talent to see that Incognito is average at best, and probably not even that. As for the "better team" who was not satisfied with him, Buffalo outrushed Miami last year, 1720 to 1643 yards and had better yards per carry at 4.3 vs. 3.7. They also gave up fewer sacks, (34 vs 38) and Buffalo outscored Miami as well. Miami had a much better defense than Buffalo, accounting for the few more games they were able to win, but lets not get carried away with Miami's offensive line under the "great" Sparano. Perhaps Richie was actually part of the problem with their subpar line?

 

Now there you go with facts. It ruins a perfecdtly good tantrum on the part of some on this thread who think somehow we would be a better team with Jonathan Scott and Ritchie Incognito on board. I'd rather play guys who needed to play or to see what they got when your team is on the rebuild. Both of those guys were not in any long term picture for us. As it stands now, let's just get a freakin' RT in the draft of FA and I think we're going to be fine.

[yungmack]

I am not commenting necessarily on Nix's talent judgement (though he has been in the league a long time).

Perhaps Jonathan Scott could fill the job in Pittsburgh because there was better talent around him to make

up for his short-comings? I also think that Scott was starting as an injury fill-in.

 

Cornell Green absolutely was not a great pickup, but I am pretty sure that they were hoping to get a year

as a stop-gap not a long-term starter out of the 34 yo journeyman. That didn't work out very well, but

when trying to build from the ground up, you can't fix every problem over night.

Jeez, an intelligent, level-headed comment. This board is going to hell!

[Phil Hansen Forever]

There has to be an interesting story surrounding this guy. Could he be that much a dick all of the time that people just cant stand him? He isnt THAT bad of a player. He's not great, but there are certainly many other players who are worse... Strange. Wonder what the "inside word" is on him.

Speaking of Dicks, how's Jauron these days?

[rpcolosi]

The bar for acceptable OL play is set a bit higher in Miami. Sparano was an OL coach for Parcells and they drafted a LT #1 overall 3 years ago.

 

I think it's a bit of a reach to suggest that Nix is a shrewd judge of OL talent because he didn't re-sign a player who a better team wasn't satisfied with.

 

After all, Nix is the guy who signed Cornell Green to start at RT. Can you imagine anyone else in the AFC East doing that? Me neither.

 

He also let Jonathon Scott walk and the guy ended up starting for the AFC Champions. Not trying to dog Nix, but at best the jury is still out on his decision making.

 

 

you made sense until you brought up jonathan scott. he was their 3rd... THIRD string tackle. Maybin torched him repeatedely in training camp for would-be sacks. letting him goes was a wise move. wrotto and howard are both better than scott. in essence, they got scott and we got ubrik - and ubrik is the better player with more upside, simply at a position of depth for us.

 

cornell green was a joke of a signing, but we all have to be aware they most likely expected him to simply bridge the gap until some younger guys stepped in and were capable in year 1 of the deal. he wasn't guaranteed much at all on a "three" year deal and nothing was backloaded, indicating he was viewed as a stop gap/short term fill in. in essence, the deal sounded bigger than it was and buddy rented the guy for a around 3mil until some rookie FA and practice squad players proved adequate in the system. none of us liked the deal, but would you rather invest in a mid 30s guy like Pace who commanded more money or try to find some younger, cheaper, upside potential FAs? frankly, i was content with who buddy brought in from wrotto to ubrik to reinhart.

 

the biggest knock is why in the world Wang saw no PT - unless they view him as a long term project. that is disheartening and should be watched closely. that will be a far bigger judge of Nix's OL e v a l than renting Green for half a season. 3mil is nothing for an offensive tackle.

[Beerball]

Re-signs with miami for 3 years

[BillsVet]

Nix and crew hosted Bob Sanders and saw him go to SD. They made it known they were interested in Atogwe, and he went to Washington. Last year they hosted a few lower cost players and couldn't sign them, eventually getting two lost cost options at the end of their careers in Davis and Green to go along with a guy with injury concerns who played OK in Dwan Edwards.

 

Building through the draft does not mean building exclusively through the draft. When the CBA gets hammered out, you'd think Buffalo would be able to fill some holes with quality free agents. If not, I question their commitment to building a winner. Buffalo hasn't made a slam-dunk move in Pro Personnel in forever.

[Spiderweb]

Re-signs with miami for 3 years

 

That should end this thread.

[BuffaloBillsMagic1]

That should end this thread.

Buddy, you are so smart....

[OCinBuffalo]

I am not commenting necessarily on Nix's talent judgement (though he has been in the league a long time).

Perhaps Jonathan Scott could fill the job in Pittsburgh because there was better talent around him to make

up for his short-comings? I also think that Scott was starting as an injury fill-in.

 

Cornell Green absolutely was not a great pickup, but I am pretty sure that they were hoping to get a year

as a stop-gap not a long-term starter out of the 34 yo journeyman. That didn't work out very well, but

when trying to build from the ground up, you can't fix every problem over night.

Nice post.

 

I am in the "Jury's still out" camp, but if we are going to be critical of anyone, it's useful to be accurate, specific, and to take all the facts, not just the ones that make us "right", into account.

 

Perhaps the reason Green and Scott stood out as soooo poor, is that the other guys we do have are starting to look good? In a sense, we have had non-starters, in every sense of the word, on the O-line for so long, it was hard to tell who was the worst when they all were doing poorly(except Peters, and now, it even looks like that was a good call = Peters is good, but not worth the hyped up elite LT $$$).

 

I am hoping to get 1 or 2 O line out of the draft, or very high on UDFA. It would be nice if Wang could keep progressing. I think he has a chance to be solid. But who knows? In any event, I don't want us reaching for RT. I am fine with reaching for LT.

 

Oh, and an administrative note: Thanks to the OP for spelling re-sign properly. I had almost resigned myself to the belief that re-sign would never be spelled properly on this board.

[Mr. WEO]

Re-signs with miami for 3 years

Now that's funny!

[Kingfish]

Cornell Green

 

 

 

Red........it's about Cornell Green. How do you rank those restricted free agents let go in favor of signing a horrendous 34 year old to a multi-year deal. I could really care less if people think that Jon Scott was lousy. Was he better than Green? Yes. Was he cheaper? Yes. End of discussion.

 

 

 

Cornell Green hit the wall about a decade ago. He was the Raiders worst OL. His signing was anything but understandable.

 

 

Is it really worth arguing over whether or not there were less terrible OTs the Bills could have signed last year? The Bills needed a warm body and weren't going to get anyone good from 2010's garbage OT FA class.

 

http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?option=OL&y=2010

[GG]

Is it really worth arguing over whether or not there were less terrible OTs the Bills could have signed last year? The Bills needed a warm body and weren't going to get anyone good from 2010's garbage OT FA class.

 

http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?option=OL&y=2010

 

It absolutely is worth arguing over, because a seemingly irrelevant discussion about backup OLs is illlustrative of the decision making ability of this organization. Bills knew they had a hole to fill at RT when Butler retired in February, and they elected to throw a bigger contract offer to a less competent guy when they already had a serviceable guy on the team.

 

Now we can go on and on about taking a calculated gamble that Green would turn out better than Scott and that the professional talent evaluators know more than the fans on a Bills forum. But if the tape of the '09 season showed that Cornell Green was shot, yet the Bills brass thought that he still had two years left in the tank - well, history has spoken conclusively about their player evaluation in that case, didn't it?

 

So maybe we can hold out hope for the pickups of Wrotto, Howard & Urbik, but the mian reason those guys are there is because the team thought it could compete with Cornell Green & Jamon Meredith in the line up in the first place.

Edited March 4, 2011 by GG

[Kingfish]

It absolutely is worth arguing over, because a seemingly irrelevant discussion about backup OLs is illlustrative of the decision making ability of this organization. Bills knew they had a hole to fill at RT when Butler retired in February, and they elected to throw a bigger contract offer to a less competent guy when they already had a serviceable guy on the team.

 

That's where I disagree. Johnathan Scott isn't serviceable, he's below average. If Cornell Green is a D player then Johnathan Scott is a D+. If the Bills had gone into 2010 as Scott as their starting RT fans would have been killing Nix for it.

[BuffaloBill]

Cornell Green absolutely was not a great pickup, but I am pretty sure that they were hoping to get a year

as a stop-gap not a long-term starter out of the 34 yo journeyman. That didn't work out very well, but

when trying to build from the ground up, you can't fix every problem over night.

 

 

This may be the most intelligent thing said about the Scott situation. The Bills were and continue to be in a serious rebuild mode. To your point not every need is going to be addressed on day one.

 

With that said the Bills have to hit better in the draft. Last year's draft dis not produce any immediate "hits." I know a couple of the guys like Carrington and Moats are coming on nicely but given their drafting position the Bills need at least one, and if we are to take a step forward two, high impact player to come out of each draft.

[Sisyphean Bills]

It absolutely is worth arguing over, because a seemingly irrelevant discussion about backup OLs is illlustrative of the decision making ability of this organization. Bills knew they had a hole to fill at RT when Butler retired in February, and they elected to throw a bigger contract offer to a less competent guy when they already had a serviceable guy on the team.

 

Now we can go on and on about taking a calculated gamble that Green would turn out better than Scott and that the professional talent evaluators know more than the fans on a Bills forum. But if the tape of the '09 season showed that Cornell Green was shot, yet the Bills brass thought that he still had two years left in the tank - well, history has spoken conclusively about their player evaluation in that case, didn't it?

 

So maybe we can hold out hope for the pickups of Wrotto, Howard & Urbik, but the mian reason those guys are there is because the team thought it could compete with Cornell Green & Jamon Meredith in the line up in the first place.

Well said. The hope for some of these new faces is floated on where other teams, teams that let them go, drafted them. Wrotto is dubbed an extra 4th round pick, Urbik and Rinehardt a pair of extra 3rd round picks, and also Erik Pears, the backup to Cornell Green 2 years ago in Oakland.

[bernie]

Richie Incognito returns to Miami

Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on March 4, 2011, 10:00 AM EST

Richie Incognito

 

Richie Incognito’s new contract with the Dolphins was lost (by us) in the flurry of labor news and last minute contract news last night.

 

The former penalty magnet agreed to a new three-year deal with Miami, according to ESPN’s Adam Schefter. Incognito was one of the most consistent parts of Miami’s line last year, and probably their best interior player.

 

A third-round pick of the Rams in 2005, Incognito has been known for his short temper and inconsistent play. The Dolphins did a nice job harnessing his aggression, and then rewarded him for it Thursday night.

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/03/04/richie-incognito-returns-to-miami/

[PromoTheRobot]

Any ex Bill signed by another team is proof we blew it. Never mind if we all felt that player was crap and needed to be cut anyway.

 

The 5 stages of Bills players:

 

1) hate the signing

2) player sucks, needs to be cut

3) player is cut, we're glad

4) player signs elsewhere, we worry

5) player is awesome, proof of front office incompetency.

 

PTR

Edited March 4, 2011 by PromoTheRobot

[Doc]

Championship!