Pats* can't run

[Dr. K]

28 yards rushing against the Rams last night.

 

I know it's pre-season, but 28 yards against the Rams?

 

But Brady threw three TDs.

 

It's also interesting that the Pats played Brady into the fourth quarter. Why did they do that? Does he need the work? I doubt it. Were they that eager to beat the Rams? Why?

Edited August 27, 2010 by Dr. K

[KD in CA]

28 yards rushing against the Rams last night.

 

I know it's pre-season, but 28 yards against the Rams?

 

But Brady threw three TDs.

 

It's also interesting that the Pats played Brady into the fourth quarter. Why did they do that? Does he need the work? I doubt it. Were they that eager to beat the Rams? Why?

 

My guess would be 'yes'. Passing teams need to get the timing down and the 3d pre-season game usually seems like the time to give your offense is full dress rehersal.

 

I sure hope the Bills can figure out a pass rush against Brady or it's going to be another 0-2 this year.

[Dr. K]

My guess would be 'yes'. Passing teams need to get the timing down and the 3d pre-season game usually seems like the time to give your offense is full dress rehersal.

 

I sure hope the Bills can figure out a pass rush against Brady or it's going to be another 0-2 this year.

 

Could be. But if this is their offense's full dress rehearsal, they will be the worst running team in the league.

 

I know the trend now is for teams to succeed without having to run very well, but this strikes me as a vulnerability.

Edited August 27, 2010 by Dr. K

[Guest dog14787]

My guess would be 'yes'. Passing teams need to get the timing down and the 3d pre-season game usually seems like the time to give your offense is full dress rehersal.

 

I sure hope the Bills can figure out a pass rush against Brady or it's going to be another 0-2 this year.

 

 

Shut down Randy Moss and you muzzle the New England Patriots explosive passing attack in my opinion and I believe the Bills secondary is up to the task. The Buffalo Bills are a different team now, we will run the ball, control the clock and keep Tom Brady off the field as much as possible.

 

The Buffalo Bills can and will beat the New England Patriots this season,

 

 

I Billieve...

[bigdogtim]

Passing is very exciting, but in order to consistently win in the NFL, you need to be able to run and defend against the run.

[Bob in STL]

Shut down Randy Moss and you muzzle the New England Patriots explosive passing attack in my opinion and I believe the Bills secondary is up to the task. The Buffalo Bills are a different team now, we will run the ball, control the clock and keep Tom Brady off the field as much as possible.

 

The Buffalo Bills can and will beat the New England Patriots this season,

 

 

I Billieve...

 

If Brady has time he will find the 2nd and 3rd receivers and we are going to be in trouble.

 

Pressure on Brady is the surest way to beat him. See: Super Bowl loss to Giants.

 

Playing the Pats* in bad weather would be helpful if thay are that reliant on the pass.

[agardin]

The Pats haven't really cared about the run for several years now, they have Maroney and Fred Taylor as their backs. They haven't had a true featured back since the days of Curtis Martin, maybe Corey Dillon. It looks like that philosophy has paid off.

[stony]

Passing is very exciting, but in order to consistently win in the NFL, you need to be able to run and defend against the run.

 

I think you need to defend the run, no doubt. But in today's NFL, passing is the key to winning games more than running.

[djcalvin79]

The Pats haven't really cared about the run for several years now, they have Maroney and Fred Taylor as their backs. They haven't had a true featured back since the days of Curtis Martin, maybe Corey Dillon. It looks like that philosophy has paid off.

The Patsies don't need Moron-ey to run the ball.. even their 3rd string backup law-firm-named dude ran all over us.

 

An intense pass rush might be just about the only way to get it done. With holdouts and injuries this might be the weakest their O-line has been in a decade.. yet it's light years ahead of our O-line.

[nucci]

I don't think the Pats* have had a decent running game the last few years anyways.

[Cynical]

I think you need to defend the run, no doubt. But in today's NFL, passing is the key to winning games more than running.

 

Been hearing that phrase now for 25+ years.

I started hearing it during the Air Coryell years. I heard it again when the West Coast offense came rolling out. Heard it again when teams started running the Run 'N Shoot offense.

 

Run, stop the run. One of the basics of football.

[aristocrat]

if you look at last year against them i dont think the pats offense did anything against us. freddy had a monster game week one and i think edwards threw for more than brady. the second game i think fitzy played and even he beat out the pats.

[wonderbread]

IIRC last year the Pats run game didn't beat us.

[Guest dog14787]

If Brady has time he will find the 2nd and 3rd receivers and we are going to be in trouble.

 

Pressure on Brady is the surest way to beat him. See: Super Bowl loss to Giants.

 

Playing the Pats* in bad weather would be helpful if thay are that reliant on the pass.

 

The biggest strength of the buffalo Bills is the secondary, second biggest, the running game, both key ingredients to beating the Pats in my opinion,

 

Turnovers, we need turnovers, and we have enough talented personnel to win the turnover battle and time of possession, which normally equates to W's

 

When you throw the ball against the Bills defense, you are throwing the ball into the mist of some of the most dangerous return men in football in my opinion.

Edited August 27, 2010 by dog14787

[KD in CA]

The Pats haven't really cared about the run for several years now, they have Maroney and Fred Taylor as their backs.

 

Exactly. The Pats* have been a pass first team for years and sure seem to have had success with it.

 

 

As for the secondary; it's meaningless if they can't pressure Brady. If he has time, he's going to find an open receiver, period.

[Dr. K]

The biggest strength of the buffalo Bills is the secondary, second biggest, the running game, both key ingredients to beating the Pats in my opinion,

 

Turnovers, we need turnovers, and we have enough talented personnel to win the turnover battle and time of possession, which normally equates to W's

 

When you throw the ball against the Bills defense, you are throwing the ball into the mist of some of the most dangerous return men in football in my opinion.

 

Time of possession in this Pats-Rams game

 

Pats: 16:14

Rams: 43:46

 

The only reason the score was close was that that Pats returned the opening kickoff for a TD, and the Pats intercepted a pass and ran it back inside the 10.

 

This is all pre-season, but the Pats were playing against last year's worst team in the league. With the Pats starting offense playing into the fourth quarter.

 

The Pats and the Colts have proved in recent years that you don't need a good running game to win a lot of games. However, 28 yards a game is beyond abysmal, and I guarantee if they run like that all season and pile up 16 minutes in time of possession, I don't care how good Brady and Moss and Welker are, they will be lucky to win half their games.

Edited August 27, 2010 by Dr. K

[T master]

Shut down Randy Moss and you muzzle the New England Patriots explosive passing attack in my opinion and I believe the Bills secondary is up to the task. The Buffalo Bills are a different team now, we will run the ball, control the clock and keep Tom Brady off the field as much as possible.

 

The Buffalo Bills can and will beat the New England Patriots this season,

 

 

I Billieve...

 

CAN YOU SAY WES WELKER IS BACK !!!!!

[ganesh]

Could be. But if this is their offense's full dress rehearsal, they will be the worst running team in the league.

 

I know the trend now is for teams to succeed without having to run very well, but this strikes me as a vulnerability.

 

Brady's throws to Welker are effectively RUN plays in their system. It is often a hitch-and-catch for 5-6 yards between Brady and Welker.

 

The biggest strength of the buffalo Bills is the secondary, second biggest, the running game, both key ingredients to beating the Pats in my opinion,

 

Turnovers, we need turnovers, and we have enough talented personnel to win the turnover battle and time of possession, which normally equates to W's

 

When you throw the ball against the Bills defense, you are throwing the ball into the mist of some of the most dangerous return men in football in my opinion.

 

The problem has not been the SEcondary. It is the inability of our LBs to cover their damn TEs....Two TDs to Ben Watson in the closing minutes of the game sealed our season opener last year.

[wonderbread]

CAN YOU SAY WES WELKER IS BACK !!!!!

BUT WE HAVE RASCO PERRISH IN ARE LINE UP!!!

[Dr. K]

Brady's throws to Welker are effectively RUN plays in their system. It is often a hitch-and-catch for 5-6 yards between Brady and Welker.

 

I know how they use Welker. It works fine--up to a point.

 

Are the Pats going to win the division on 28 yards rushing and 16 minutes of possession per game?

 

I'm not saying the Bills are going to beat them. But I think they are incredibly vulnerable. I bet Belichick isn't dismissing the performance against the Rams last night, and if that was the "full dress rehearsal" of their offense, any good team they play, including even the dog-ass Jets, is going to beat them like a red-headed stepchild. They could quite realistically fold like a house of cards in the regular season.

 

Of course, I could be wrong.

Edited August 27, 2010 by Dr. K

[Thurman#1]

28 yards rushing against the Rams last night.

 

I know it's pre-season, but 28 yards against the Rams?

 

But Brady threw three TDs.

 

It's also interesting that the Pats played Brady into the fourth quarter. Why did they do that? Does he need the work? I doubt it. Were they that eager to beat the Rams? Why?

 

 

 

Only 11 attempts in the whole game.

 

Neither Faulk nor Taylor, nor even Maroney got even one carry, it was only Green-Ellis and Morris.

 

And they're averaging 3.5 YPC this preseason, which sure isn't good but isn't absolutely horrible either.

 

Not a big deal yet.

 

I don't think the Pats* have had a decent running game the last few years anyways.

 

 

Decent, but nothing more. But in their Super Bowl-winning years, they were a good running team. That's actually been part of their downfall, IMHO, is that they aren't balanced, so the really good rushing teams can batter Brady, ala the Giants in the SB.

 

Shut down Randy Moss and you muzzle the New England Patriots explosive passing attack in my opinion and I believe the Bills secondary is up to the task. The Buffalo Bills are a different team now, we will run the ball, control the clock and keep Tom Brady off the field as much as possible.

 

The Buffalo Bills can and will beat the New England Patriots this season,

 

 

I Billieve...

 

 

Why would you believe that? We haven't stifled Moss since Nate Clements left. Now, he stifled Moss every time. Just him him in the face a lot till he started pouting. None of our other guys seem able to stop him consistently.

[stony]

Been hearing that phrase now for 25+ years.

I started hearing it during the Air Coryell years. I heard it again when the West Coast offense came rolling out. Heard it again when teams started running the Run 'N Shoot offense.

 

Run, stop the run. One of the basics of football.

 

And your point is? All I'm saying is that during the regular season, the teams with the best passing attacks win the most games. Saints, Colts, Chargers, etc. Thats why there's such a premium on quarterbacks and running backs are a dime a dozen. The Vikings have arguably the best running back in football aside of C.Johnson, but what was their identity last year? Brett Favre's 33TD passes. One of the biggest myths in football is that running sets up the pass. In fact, it might be completely the other way around. Teams that can pass at will open up the box for running backs. The Patriots won't be able to run this year but something tells me their still good for 10 wins. Cincy was able to run last year but decided they needed to upgrade their passing drafting two possible impact players and signing two more veteran recievers. Stopping the run is much more vital than running the ball.

[sllib olaffub]

If the games don't count against the season's overall record, then I can guarantee you Bill Belicheck looks at them strictly as an opportunity for experimenting with plays, and with getting plays down - more or less a practice time. He knows he's got to run effectively, and they'll be up to that task. New England is a tough team when Brady and Belicheck and there, and they are anything but predictable. I hate 'em. And, I've been saying this for a few years now, IF YOU'RE GOING TO BEAT THE PATRIOTS, YOU'VE GOT TO PRESSURE BRADY CONSTANTLY!!! The Bills, over the last three or four years, have given the Patriots a little trouble here and there - and it's because of Schobel. He had Brady's number. So, however we have to do it, we had better be knocking him all over the place this season. If we can manage that, then we can beat them.

And, I do think we'll be stout against the run this year. Maybe vulnerable to quick outside runners, but the Pat's don't really have that speed there too much.

[Skoobydum]

Pats are going down!!

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

If Brady has time he will find the 2nd and 3rd receivers and we are going to be in trouble.

 

Pressure on Brady is the surest way to beat him. See: Super Bowl loss to Giants.

 

Playing the Pats* in bad weather would be helpful if thay are that reliant on the pass.

 

 

Ravens did an even better job of this in the playoffs last year.

Edited August 27, 2010 by over 20 years of fanhood

[Dr. K]

 

 

The problem has not been the SEcondary. It is the inability of our LBs to cover their damn TEs....Two TDs to Ben Watson in the closing minutes of the game sealed our season opener last year.

 

This is sadly true. It always kills me how easily Brady is able to send the TE down the middle for 20-30 yards against the Bills. And apparently this new rookie TE they have is even more of a weapon.

 

I expect to be gnashing my teeth over this every time the bills play them. That and the short passes to Welker with large RAC.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

This is sadly true. It always kills me how easily Brady is able to send the TE down the middle for 20-30 yards against the Bills. And apparently this new rookie TE they have is even more of a weapon.

 

I expect to be gnashing my teeth over this every time the bills play them. That and the short passes to Welker with large RAC.

 

 

My opinion, for which I welcome scrutiny, is that play works against a cover 2 much better than the new D. While Watson is big and fast enough to be a difficult match up, I think a strong safety or nickel corner, or at least a better LB matched up, keeps that play from scoring twice.

 

 

[Chalkie Gerzowski]

Fred Taylor - 7,000 carries, 45 years old.

 

Sammy Morris - decent in a pinch

 

Laurence Baloney - usually injured.

 

Benjamin H. Jarvis Green Fawnsworth Ellis IV Esq. - at least he has the longest name in the league.

 

Kevin Faulk - still hanging in there while collecting medicare.

 

[4BillsintheBurgh]

I say beat them at their own game - play a 3-1 defense, double Moss and Welker and make them run on us.

[Leonidas]

Shut down Randy Moss and you muzzle the New England Patriots explosive passing attack in my opinion and I believe the Bills secondary is up to the task. The Buffalo Bills are a different team now, we will run the ball, control the clock and keep Tom Brady off the field as much as possible.

 

The Buffalo Bills can and will beat the New England Patriots this season,

 

 

I Billieve...

 

You're a little too much of a homer for me.

 

So many people here talking about weaknesses on the Pats, yet they've beaten us what, 15 straight times? It's embarrassing. There is no reason to think in this rebuilding year it's going to happen, certainly not after what happened last year on MNF.

[eball]

The Pats haven't really cared about the run for several years now, they have Maroney and Fred Taylor as their backs. They haven't had a true featured back since the days of Curtis Martin, maybe Corey Dillon. It looks like that philosophy has paid off.

Yes, because they've won how many Super Bowls since having a featured back like Dillon?

[Leonidas]

Yes, because they've won how many Super Bowls since having a featured back like Dillon?

 

Please. They won a super bowl with friggin' Antowain Smith, they went 18-1 with Maroney, Morris and company while setting all sorts of records on offense, they have been a perennial contender for a decade, and you want to say that losing Corey Dillon is why they haven't won a super bowl since '04?

[Guest dog14787]

You're a little too much of a homer for me.

 

So many people here talking about weaknesses on the Pats, yet they've beaten us what, 15 straight times? It's embarrassing. There is no reason to think in this rebuilding year it's going to happen, certainly not after what happened last year on MNF.

 

 

Winning the turnover battle, running the ball well and controlling the clock is the formula for beating any football team and the Patriots are no exception.

 

We finally have a coach who will coach to this teams capabilities and not to some unwritten rule the ball has to be forced down the field in order to win ball games.

[Leonidas]

Winning the turnover battle, running the ball well and controlling the clock is the formula for beating any football team and the Patriots are no exception.

 

We finally have a coach who will coach to this teams capabilities and not to some unwritten rule the ball has to be forced down the field in order to win ball games.

 

So because we don't have Dick Jauron anymore we're now going to beat the team with superior talent and still superior coaching?

 

Sure, winning the turnover battle, running the ball, and controlling the clock help (of course we did all those things and still lost to Dallas on MNF, but I digress). But why would we do any of those things well against New England? Why would we turn the ball over less? Does Brady throw a lot of picks against us? Is Trent going to become a legit QB by then? Is he going to out-play Brady? Why do you think New England won't be able to run the ball this year? They've always been able to run it against us during years we WEREN'T rebuilding our defense, what makes it any better this year? And what's with the ball being forced down the field? Did you just get Dick Jauron and Mike Martz confused? Dick Jauron was as conservative as they come. You can say "I billieve" as much as you want, but you haven't given a shred of evidence to suggest we're going to beat New England this year. Just a reminder, remember 2007? Remember the beatings they handed down to us? Here was their offensive starting lineup then: QB Brady, RB Maroney, WR Moss, WR Welker/Stallworth, FB Evans, TE Watson, LT Light, LG Mankins, C Koeppen, RG Neal, RT Kazcur. This year: QB Brady, RB Maroney, RB Faulk/Taylor, WR Moss, WR Welker, TE Crumpler, LT Light, LG Connolly, C Koeppen, RG Neal, RT Vollmer. Will they beat us 56-10 again? I doubt it. But your optimism is completely unfounded.

[Guest dog14787]

So because we don't have Dick Jauron anymore we're now going to beat the team with superior talent and still superior coaching?

 

Sure, winning the turnover battle, running the ball, and controlling the clock help (of course we did all those things and still lost to Dallas on MNF, but I digress). But why would we do any of those things well against New England? Why would we turn the ball over less? Does Brady throw a lot of picks against us? Is Trent going to become a legit QB by then? Is he going to out-play Brady? Why do you think New England won't be able to run the ball this year? They've always been able to run it against us during years we WEREN'T rebuilding our defense, what makes it any better this year? And what's with the ball being forced down the field? Did you just get Dick Jauron and Mike Martz confused? Dick Jauron was as conservative as they come. You can say "I billieve" as much as you want, but you haven't given a shred of evidence to suggest we're going to beat New England this year. Just a reminder, remember 2007? Remember the beatings they handed down to us? Here was their offensive starting lineup then: QB Brady, RB Maroney, WR Moss, WR Welker/Stallworth, FB Evans, TE Watson, LT Light, LG Mankins, C Koeppen, RG Neal, RT Kazcur. This year: QB Brady, RB Maroney, RB Faulk/Taylor, WR Moss, WR Welker, TE Crumpler, LT Light, LG Connolly, C Koeppen, RG Neal, RT Vollmer. Will they beat us 56-10 again? I doubt it. But your optimism is completely unfounded.

 

 

So what, the Pats throw the ball well, our pass defense also ranked number one last season when it comes to opponent QB rating, ranked in the top three in every important category. This season we won't just take the ball away, we will be shoving it down our opponents throats like McGee did against Indy.

Edited August 27, 2010 by dog14787

[eball]

Please. They won a super bowl with friggin' Antowain Smith, they went 18-1 with Maroney, Morris and company while setting all sorts of records on offense, they have been a perennial contender for a decade, and you want to say that losing Corey Dillon is why they haven't won a super bowl since '04?

And if they had a running game worth a spit they'd have been able to offset that Giants' pass rush a bit, don't ya think?

 

Look, having one of the best QBs of an era is obviously a huge advantage...but the Pats haven't sealed the deal in a while now, and their running game ain't much. Just sayin'.

[PromoTheRobot]

And if they had a running game worth a spit they'd have been able to offset that Giants' pass rush a bit, don't ya think?

 

Look, having one of the best QBs of an era is obviously a huge advantage...but the Pats haven't sealed the deal in a while now, and their running game ain't much. Just sayin'.

It's hard to win in the NFL...when you can't cheat.

 

PTR

[edg77]

I live in Pats* country and nothing would make me happier than to beat them but until it happens I can't get behind any theories that it will. How many times have we had them "beat" only to find some new way to get sick? From The Very Special Teddy Bruschi Memorial Comeback Spectacular to last season's opening debacle it's been too much to take. I have no hope.

[Dr. K]

I live in Pats* country and nothing would make me happier than to beat them but until it happens I can't get behind any theories that it will. How many times have we had them "beat" only to find some new way to get sick? From The Very Special Teddy Bruschi Memorial Comeback Spectacular to last season's opening debacle it's been too much to take. I have no hope.

 

I completely understand the despair, but it has to happen eventually. Last season the Pats beat the Bills twice, but neither game was by any means a blowout.

 

I'm not saying it will happen this year, but the Pats have come somewhat to earth since their 18-1 season. That are not superhuman. The Ravens humiliated them in Foxboro last year. That game reminded me of the last playoff game played in Buffalo, when the four-time AFC champion Bills, the team still sporting Jim Kelly, Thurman Thomas, Andre Reed, Bruce Smith, Cornelius Bennet, and Daryl Talley met the second year Jacksonville Jaguars on the Bills' home field, where they had not lost a playoff game since 1989--and got beat. The Bills still played some good games after that, and had some playoff seasons, but their dynasty was over.

 

Today's Bills are absolutely not the Ravens, but the nonetheless they had the Pats on the ropes in the opener last year, in Foxboro, even with Edwards at QB. The gap between the teams is not what it was three years ago.

 

We'll see what happens.

 

So because we don't have Dick Jauron anymore we're now going to beat the team with superior talent and still superior coaching?

 

Sure, winning the turnover battle, running the ball, and controlling the clock help (of course we did all those things and still lost to Dallas on MNF, but I digress). But why would we do any of those things well against New England? Why would we turn the ball over less? Does Brady throw a lot of picks against us? Is Trent going to become a legit QB by then? Is he going to out-play Brady? Why do you think New England won't be able to run the ball this year? They've always been able to run it against us during years we WEREN'T rebuilding our defense, what makes it any better this year? And what's with the ball being forced down the field? Did you just get Dick Jauron and Mike Martz confused? Dick Jauron was as conservative as they come. You can say "I billieve" as much as you want, but you haven't given a shred of evidence to suggest we're going to beat New England this year. Just a reminder, remember 2007? Remember the beatings they handed down to us? Here was their offensive starting lineup then: QB Brady, RB Maroney, WR Moss, WR Welker/Stallworth, FB Evans, TE Watson, LT Light, LG Mankins, C Koeppen, RG Neal, RT Kazcur. This year: QB Brady, RB Maroney, RB Faulk/Taylor, WR Moss, WR Welker, TE Crumpler, LT Light, LG Connolly, C Koeppen, RG Neal, RT Vollmer. Will they beat us 56-10 again? I doubt it. But your optimism is completely unfounded.

 

All of them three years older. If names won football games, then we should just get Kelly, Smith, Thomas, Reed, Bennett, Tasker, Hull, Wolford and Talley back to play this season.

 

I'm not optimistic, but I have a guarded expectation the Bills will do better. And I hate all this worship of the Pats. They deserve immense respect for what they have done. But they are not the team they were in 2007.

Edited August 27, 2010 by Dr. K

[Leonidas]

So what, the Pats throw the ball well, our pass defense also ranked number one last season when it comes to opponent QB rating, ranked in the top three in every important category. This season we won't just take the ball away, we will be shoving it down our opponents throats like McGee did against Indy.

 

Again, completely baseless optimism. So we're going to run it down their throats like we did last year, with Fred Jackson's 57 yards in the opener? Or his 80 yards in week 15? We were ranked tenth last year in rushing. New England was ranked ninth. What's changed, exactly? And why was our pass defense ranked so high? Because teams ran up and down the field on us and they didn't have to pass, that's why. That's going to change this year with a completely revamped, rebuilding defense? McGee makes one tremendously athletic pick-six and now our defense is top-tier? Plus, how does McGee's interception equate to "shoving it down opponents throats" exactly?? No no, I remember, you "billieve." Yeah, say that enough times and it'll come true. Who cares if we've beaten them twice in twenty meetings over ten years...you "billieve."

 

It's hard to win in the NFL...when you can't cheat.

 

PTR

 

...except they went 17-1 after the Spygate game.

 

I live in Pats* country and nothing would make me happier than to beat them but until it happens I can't get behind any theories that it will. How many times have we had them "beat" only to find some new way to get sick? From The Very Special Teddy Bruschi Memorial Comeback Spectacular to last season's opening debacle it's been too much to take. I have no hope.

 

This is my experience to a T.

 

All of them three years older. If names won football games, then we should just get Kelly, Smith, Thomas, Reed, Bennett, Tasker, Hull, Wolford and Talley back to play this season.

 

Come on, that's hardly the same. Are any of those guys even close to over the hill? Maybe Moss has lost a step. You're talking about guys who retired ten years ago. I'm talking about guys who are near the end of the prime of their careers. That's a terrible argument to make.

 

I'm not optimistic, but I have a guarded expectation the Bills will do better. And I hate all this worship of the Pats. They deserve immense respect for what they have done. But they are not the team they were in 2007.

 

I don't worship the Pats. I hate them more than anything on this planet. But it's the same people here that homer-up and give all these BS reasons why this year is "the year" to beat New England. We got swept when they had Matt Cassell playing QB and he hadn't played a football game in years! This year we're rebuilding, our defense is in disarray, and we still have no QB. Sorry, the homers are too much here.

Edited August 28, 2010 by Leonidas