Ed_Formerly_of_Roch

From what I've read, one of the issues is if a player retires, teams feel they have the right to get back money for future years, but rarely ever do request the money be returned. Once in awhile you hear about a player leaving on bad terms, i.e. Antonio Brown and they stilt don't recoup the money. I believe part of that is due to while I stated earlier "teams feel they have the right", I believe the NFLPA disagrees with that. So to avoid bad press, particularly when the issue is a retirement, the team lets the player keep the money. It may also be one of these things the team is ready to move one so player announces today he's retiring, team asks for money back, player says I'll think about it, they go back and forth maybe gives back 60%, but took so long to get the money, they already were forced to take the cap hit. Easier for teams to just take the hit right away and move on. Believe I read about this recently in an article about Andrew Luck and was stated that: "Even Indy didn't ask Luck to return the money when he retired."

Yeah interesting that All was liked, but Jerry always hated. Only difference I can see is Al didn't seem to come on that strong in the early days, maybe because the AFL as a whole wasn't that big. And when Al did come on strong in the later AFL years it was to fight the established NFL and became somewhat of a hero for that. There was something mystique too about the "Silver and Black"

The Bills system he's playing in now is a far cry from the 2019 Bills system. No Diggs who replaced Jones and Foster as the #2. So agree context does matter, makes it easy to cherry pick.

While watching it I was wondering if they were going to make a point of them embracing when Rozelle announced he was retiring, because I distinctively recall that being talking about back in 1989 that people were very surprised that they embraced and the emotion of it. So while Maddog stated it didn't ever happen, at the time many others reported it did happen. Two things stuck me watching it Rozelle smoked like a chimney. At the time there certainly wasn't all the live coverage of press conferences etc, that there are today, but don't recall seeing him smoking publicly. Never saw him standing up there stating: "With the 17th pick in the 1983 draft...." with a cigarette in his hand or having to wipe the ashes off the Super Bowl trophy. After watching this surprised that didn't happen. There was one very quick glimpse they showed of what appeared to be Mark Davis maybe back when he was around 20 years old or so, not too surprisingly he had the same identical haircut then as now! Some things never change!

So you're going to basically throw out 5 years worth of stats to base it all on one and half seasons of data here in Buffalo. Wow this may be the best example I've ever seen of cherry picking data. Every data point that 's not to your liking you excuse away. My point too wasn't to say Browns catch percentage wasn't very good, but more to state there just aren't more opportunities in the offense for more passes thrown or completed. Yeah I'll agree Brown was likely hampered with deep balls from Jackson, but Allen is far from elite with throwing deep balls too. He improved tremendously in the 20 to 25 yard passes, but still struggled with true deep 40+ yard passes. Admittedly a low percent are even thrown much less completed. Well at least we agree on one thing, likely he won't be back.

So do you think they should bring him back? And at $8 mil?? The problem with your extrapolation exercise is no guarantee those numbers work out. Allen completed 69% of his passes and threw 572 passes tied for 6th most. Where do these extra 34 completions to Brown come from? Likely by reducing the number of catches by Diggs, Beasley, and Davis. Over his career Brown has caught 53% of passes he was targeted (less than Davis BTW) so to catch 34 more balls, he'd need to be targeted around 65 times. Do you want Allen to attempt 65 more passes, or again someone else, likely Davis who would be targeted much less and who is making about 10% of the salary Brown is making. If anything could see them passing less and running slightly more next season. Could they benefit from Browns speed, assuming he still has it, sure; Do they need his additional production, not really.

Yeah he played 9 games, but only about 4 of them he looked half way decent, weeks 1,2,9, & 10. If the Bills were about $70 mil under the cap, great keep him, or if he's willing to take a pay cut down to about $3 mil then keep him, but doubt he's worth keeping at anything close to $8 mil unless the Bills determine that the 2020 roster is good enough to win the super Bowl next season with and minus upcoming FA. To improve the team, can't see how they can keep him and improve elsewhere. Yes they said they want/need more speed, but not so certain they were referring to the WR class. They need speed a D-line, LB and RB. The problem is very likely when they signed Brown to a contract, the assumption was in 2020 with a deep WR class we'll draft a true #1. Likely and hopefully within 1 to 2 seasons at most the rookie will become the clear #1, Brown will be an overpaid #2, but that's OK as our #1 is on a rookie contract. Once they traded for Diggs, that all changed and Brown is now making too much money when you factor in the production they get from the rest of the team at the WR position. Football doesn't use the WAR concept, but if they did, he'd look pretty bad!

Really how can you tell, Brown hardly played? In fact could easily argue the offense looked best the last third or so of the season, Exactly when Brown was out completely. If he just picked the top 10 salaries, then where was White, Diggs, and Dawson, plus he did say to keep Hughes and Morse who are also on the top ten. What he did was went down the list of players who have large salaries and pretty big cap savings, and under performed in 2020 for what they are paid. Yes it's speculation, by a person who is looking at it objectively and based on past performance by the Bills front office and also based on how most teams operate. Just like more than half the threads here are all speculation and based on fan emotion.

I think there's a better chance of trading Brown and our 4th rounder if we had one than getting a 4th rounder. With his contract in and injured in 2020, likely would need to give up picks to move him.

I'd rather cut Butler and Addison, keep Jefferson as he can play different positions. Agree on Brown. Think the higher priority though might be signing a good established edge rusher with the savings I'd also keep Ford at guard, draft another inside O lineman for other guard spot, ideally one that also has some experience at playing center. Would either sign Williams or someone else for RT

Cap wise, do the Bills come out ahead in any way by him retiring instead of being cut? Or is it a wash either way.

Just curious if those tea leaves can explain why the running game fell apart this year compared to last season. I mean the 2019 Bills running game wasn't confusing anyone with Derrick Henry, but they did look serviceable and wasn't a huge concern going into this year. Now this is probably one of the biggest issues for next year. This year three of the same five from last year are back. The one completely different change is no Spain, instead Ike once Ford went down. This year, Ford played half the season at guard before getting hurt as opposed to last year played at tackle. The other change is at RT with Williams, but he's been one of the more solid players this season. I supposed it's possible that while he's great at pass blocking is/was terrible at run blocking. Reading the tea leaves sounds like Morse doesn't fit the scheme that well, did the scheme change since last year when he seemed to be fine? Could it simply be this season our pass game was so good, we just didn't bother enough trying to get the run game going? So what do the tea leaves show??

One bye product of a pretty deep playoff run is very little time left to be bored before the next NFL calendar season begins.

I think in this case it's more due to Gruden not being completely happy with him and wants to move on.

Flores is a genius! Makes it much tougher to poach coaches from Miami in the future if all have coordinator titles!

Same with L Jackson. Keep hearing how Baltimore needs to build the offense around him get him a true #1 WR, "hey look at the difference in made in Buffalo!" A #1 WR isn't going to help when often throwing it into the ground. Granted you could have said the same about Allen a year ago, he did improve so maybe Jackson can too. but sense Jackson enjoys being more of a running QB so may not ever improve on the throwing part. Whereas I think Allen more wants to be the gunslinger which does have some risks, but at least they are risks within the normal QB profile.

Nope, wasn't mentioned in the + Access part either. They did mention 7th rounder Jackson though. LOL

Yes it's an issue, but other than those two games, what other games really scare you? Could see them losing one of the Miami games. Will they likely go 15-1, no but could see them again going 13-3 or so. As mentioned KC plays NFC East so that's a break, but also play AFC North which isn't so easy. BTW we faced two SB teams this past year and also the two that were in the SB the year prior. Since we finished in 2nd the year prior, we lucked out a little by not playing Baltimore regular season, instead played Pitt, but the 2nd place finish also game us the toughest matchup this past year in AFC South against Tenn. Other than playing the NFC East and AFC south, couldn't imagine how they could have an easier schedule. Every year teams that are expected to do very well falter and their are surprises that play better too. This year in most eyes, Buffalo was one of the surprises as few saw them going 13-3. Next year the Bills could be the surprise team that falters too. But if that were to happen, I'm not going to say I'm not surprised due to the schedule we were playing.

So now you're really going to think I'm crazy, admittedly I was thinking about this over a month ago, at that point, didn't think Tampa would make it to the SB. Having said all that, for a couple months I've felt that 2021 would be the Bills best shot at winning the SB as their schedule is the easiest. They play the NFC south and AFC south. Throw in Pitt and KC too. Yes they play at KC and at Tampa, but really feel one of these years Brady's age is going to catch up with him, it somewhat already has as he's really not the reason physically they are in the SB, it's more the defense. While it certainly didn't happen this year with KC, typically there's always a SB hangover to deal with also. I worry about Miami in particular if they get Watson. But other than Tampa, the rest of the NFC south doesn't worry me too much, same with AFC south, Tenn and maybe Indy if they solve the QB spot could be tough, but both have some questions Not all that worried about Pitt and Grandpa Ben. So lets assume they lose to Tampa and KC, add all that up could see them going 12-4 to 13-3 again. If they can't the last thing I want to blame it on is the schedule. So yes I have seen the schedule and that's the part that I'm excited about!

Yeah that one 40 point week he had gave me a victory!

They actually have focused quite a bit on the defensive side. Drafted Oliver, Epinesa, Johnson, & Phillips. Also signed Butler as a FA who is only 26. So far Oliver has looked the best which considering where drafted should look the best. Phillips was starting to come on before injured last season, this year by season end was looking better again, likely next year will be make or break year for him. Johnson for a 7th rounder has done very well, but is still a 7th rounder. Epinesa improved, will see what next season brings for him WRT improvement. Offensive line have drafted Dawkins,Teller, and Ford so would agree not nearly as much effort there.

I was kind of thinking the same thing, but more geared towards Watson as in if Stafford got this much how will a team ever have enough picks to make that trade. The other day was hearing that Stafford may be worth two 2nd rounders and a 3rd then this came out. But then as I read some about it, it appears the main reason Detroit got what they got, wasn't at all due to Staffords abilities, but was mainly due to taking on Goff's huge contract. Likely would see a similar thing if Wentz were traded. Detroit likely got an extra #1 just for taking on the contract. This was kind of like that Cleveland trade a couple years back Would have been interested to be a fly on the wall during trade negotiations. OK we'll take a 2nd and 3rd for Stafford. Wait you want us to take Goff, OK price just tripled.

So if he leaves say this March, do we get the extra pick in 2021 or would it be the 2022 draft?

Did you click on the link, was alot I didn't know about the game. Packers were in a couple of times and Lombardi called it the S**t Bowl and is for losers, Needless to say the Packers lost the game too, but then won the next couple of championships. Was offically known as Bert Bell Bowl and Bell actually died while at an NFL football game.

Great idea! Amazed it's never been thought of before, ... Oh wait here's the results from the 3rd place game back in the 60's. As soon as saw this post, I was pretty certain they use to do this as remembered Cleveland playing in the game the one year when I was a kid. Amazing how much info you can find via Google. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playoff_Bowl Also recall Baltimore playing in the game in 66. They were kind of like the 2020 Steelers, were 12-0, best team in the league, beating everyone. Played the Rams week 13 and lost, the Rams then had the tie breakers so Baltimore ended up in 3rd place game. Season was only 14 weeks long back then too. This was in the NFL only not part of the AFL, Apparently was called "The Playoff Bowl" (I didn't remember that part) it died when the leagues merged in 1970 The Lions BTW were 3-0 in this game, think that's about the last playoff they ever won.