BigDingus

So really the easiest way would just be hoping that somehow the Ravens choke to one of those teams they should beat, and then whatever happens with the Chiefs & Chargers would determine the rest?

But I don't get what the point is and even saying that... The best QB on this roster by what metric? That he's not a 5th round rookie who has a combined total of 1 game under his belt? Well I sure hope so...He's a 7 year veteran and 3 year starter... But what good does that say about him? We KNOW who Tyrod is. 100% up and down. We KNOW he won't try to win us any games if we ever fall behind. You act like you know the QB Peterman is when no matter what you say, we just don't. He was absolutely horrendous in 1 half of 1 game. We know he tries to get the ball to Benjamin as much as he can, has a quick release, and throws downfield. That's it. We are under no illusions that we're a SB contender. So why not try to go with the guy who clearly TRIES to play the QB position instead of the RB in disguise who will most certainly be nothing more than who he has always been?

I said the Fish game was better, as I confirmed you were right...it was his actual best game. But that's was it. You used his BEST game to one-up his SECOND BEST game. That's it. His two best games in a nutshell. So over the body of work we've seen, he has 1 performance in a loss that's pretty good, and another performance in a loss that's actually good. Do you know how laughable it is to hold up 1 game of 300 yards (that took OT to achieve) and say "See, he's good!" when you have career journeymen put up those numbers multiple times over their careers? And although Brady is a HOFer, he AVERAGES 300 yards a game at 40... Let that sink in for a moment. And 3 passing TD's one time in his life? How is that impressive again? JP Losman had multiple 300 yard games and multiple 3 TD games... Do we hold up those as if he was somehow a decent QB? Do we say "look at his best game ever, followed by his second best game ever!" and then try to pretend that's even semi-indicative of the kind of player he was? No. So to pretend Tyrod has a history of this, or some great track record is ridiculous. You are right, I'm done "acknowledging the good." It's too few and far between, and outliers aren't the norm. If you want, you can ignore his two sub-100 yard passing games this season as outliers too, but you're still left with a guy who averages 160 passing yards, and 1 TD a game. What's to acknowledge there?

I remember 2 things far more in that game. 1) The halftime FG kick debacle, and 2) Robert Woods making huge plays all game long, having a career defining game. I do remember Tyrod doing well, but when Russell Wilson is on the other side having an average day, yet still playing better than Tyrod, it doesn't stand out as much. He threw for only 7 less yards but otherwise played better across the board. He had 2 passing TDs, no interceptions, 11 YPA (as opposed to 7.6), also had a rushing TD, and took 1 less sack (4 instead of 5). He's a fantastic player, and Tyrod did his best Russell Wilson performance, but it just showed the disparity between the 2 when Wilson wasn't even at his best and still putting on a performance.

Thanks, that makes far more sense now. It'd probably help if between CBS, NFL.com, ESPN, and NBC (and the other outlets) could get their playoff seating right & explain tiebreakers better. Half of them were still showing the Ravens this morning as the 6th seed, and even tonight on MNF they showed that as well. Super confusing.

Oh, so another game they lost... And his one game throwing for 3 TDs in his career, as well as the only time he broke 300 due to having OT lol. I guess his 3-20 all-time record in games the Bills go down by even a single point in the 4th quarter shows how he just puts the team on his shoulders and wills them to victory right? It's still amusing you throw out his best game EVER, as a defense for his second best game EVER, and use that as if it proves anything about his play as a 7 year vet & 3 year starter. Josh McCown has had better games than those...Rookies new to the league have better games than those. But hey, don't let facts get in the way of your hopes & dreams. Dream on...

Yeah, we lost. And that was the BEST Tyrod has ever played before or since. 289 yards, 1 passing TD, 1 INT and 1 rushing TD. It's funny that stands out as some fantastic achievement on his resume, when that would be like an above average game for most any "good" QB. We put a whopping 25 points up, so yeah, I guess that's better than the 3 we've been getting.

Is there no way to install a heated field or something? Or at least heated lines so you can see where you are on the field? Lol I'm just wondering if that's even something that can be done...

So we DO want the Chiefs to win the division is what you're saying? Trying to figure out who would be better wining the West makes my head hurt.

I'm not happy with a lot of the in-game decisions he's made, and the Dareus trade was a real head-scratcher at that point in the season, but I'm fine with him as the coach for now. I really don't want to see another new coach here for at least another 2 years. We need some damn stability for once.

Even the nicest of articles discussing the Bills failures on defense express how Tyrod & the offense are royally screwing them. That's not debatable. When the defense is on the field for 6 straight mins getting pounded, the first thing they need is rest. Then they need to regroup & try to figure out what the opponent is doing scheme-wise & how to stop it. But before they even sit on the bench, they're being trotted back out there as the offense already went 3 & out and punted.... Yeah, great way to help your guys out. There are games where our offense is only on the field for 18 minutes compared to the opponent being out their for 42 minutes! Please try to say the ineptitude of Tyrod & Co. aren't partially to blame!

Do good QB's throw for under 100 yards in any game they're not injured? How about multiple times a season? Do good QB's lead only 1 TD drive in the 1st quarter all season? Do good QB's that have been in the league for 7 years have ZERO 300+ yard passing games? Do good QB's lead the league in 3 & outs? Do good QB's have 3-20 records when going down by a single point in the 4th quarter? Who cares if he throws a couple bombs a season... Those receivers don't put up big numbers or anything, so it's not consistent. Sammy Watkins is the only receiver under Tyrod to ever break 1,000 yards, and he only BARELY did it with 1048. He only throws to guys downfield who are open on all sides of the ball by a mile. Do good QB's throw 2 yard dump pass after 2 yard dump pass on 3rd & long every time? Blame Dennison all you want, just like you guys blamed Hackett & blamed Roman, but it's up to the players to execute. He has options, but CHOOSES to go for the outlet pass as his PRIMARY option. Dennison doesn't force him to ignore his reads and dump to the RB every play...nor does Dennison make him hold onto the ball and not see open receivers. Dennison also doesn't make him throw it behind people, at their feet, or 10 yards over their head. And don't even dare say Tyrod doesn't get 300 yard games because we're a run based offense, and he doesn't get many passing attempts...Such a myth & disregard for facts it's ridiculous. He'd have more passing attempts if he was on the field more! You know why he's not? Because he doesn't even try to throw to the 1st down marker on 3rd down! He can't get attempts when he goes 3 & out drive after drive and is stuck sitting on the bench. The only teams that tell their fans they are a run-based offense that relies on defense & field position are the teams without a good QB! It's by necessity, not by choice. All the coaches we've had, and all the coordinators that call these plays HAVE to try to focus on the run because they know how limited Tyrod is. He simply cannot execute when called upon

I feel like there are going to be a LOT of raging people after next Sunday... with talk about winning the division popping up (even as a hypothetical), you're just being set up for massive disappointment. The Patriots are the exact opposite of choke artists. If this were the Bills we were talking about who were currently at 10-3 & the Patriots were at 7-6, then sure, I could see them choking the last 3 games & losing the division. But we're talking about the f'ing Patriots! They've won 5 Super Bowls & been to 7 under Brady & Belichick...all in the era of Free Agency! Even if they were on the ropes, they would gut out the necessary wins. The Bills on the other hand get the bottom yanked out from under them all the time...so yeah, I could see them choking away a division lead late in the season.

A lot of people say that's how he is in real life. Just a cool, nice guy who's surprisingly down to earth. They say he's literally the "anit-Peyton Manning" in that way. Peyton looks like the "Aw shucks" guy on TV, enjoys the limelight, wants to be loved and is always shown with a great sense of humor joking around. But behind the scenes he's a lot more distant and doesn't want to be bothered. Brady however, he doesn't really care about the media portrayal, but he's super nice to fans, has a good sense of humor in real life, and isn't stuck up at all. Still hate him as a player, but there's something to be said for how people appear in the media, and how they are in real life.

So wait, on tonight's game they brought up an info graphic of the playoff standings (this was late in the 3rd or early in the 4th), that once again showed the Bills not in 6th seed... Then the announcers talked about the Ravens being in that position, followed by discussing the Bills & the others. Wtf is going on... ESPN's own nationally televised game doesn't have updated info? No... no you don't.

That's some crazy commitment too. After a game in freezing temperatures, high winds, blizzard-like snow, etc. he then goes home to get into a cold tub and ices down to try & get ready for the next game. Damn...I would've hit the hot tub first, and nothing would've come before that happened.

You hope "prime time Tyrod" shows up? We were on prime time against the Jets a few weeks ago...that didn't turn out so well.

The fact that 57% would pass on a proven, great young QB and franchise player for a positional player & a future draft pick who may or may not be good is hilarious. Please, never complain about the front office again. You have forfeited your right to judge this franchise's failures as you would also choose to gamble instead of take a sure-thing. In 18 years of failure, what's the one position we needed most? QB. We've had plenty of great CBs, including Antoine Winfield, Nate Clements, Terrence McGee, Stephon Gilmore, Tre' White, etc...and where have they gotten us? Nowhere. I'm glad you guys aren't part of this decision making process of this organization.

Ok, so ESPN was wrong then. That's good to know. Too bad we didn't play the Pats once at the beginning of the season when their defense was garbage & they were playing only average-pretty good overall. Right now, Brady smells playoffs and is hungry again. Even though he already has the record for most SB's won by a QB, getting a 6th is probably more important to him than all the others. The impact that would have on his legacy can't be understated. Right now, you still have people trying to make arguments for other QB's as the GOAT, but to get freaking SIX wins would make all but the craziest, locked-in-denial haters have to shut up and accept him. To do that all in this in the Free Agency era just blows any counterargument out the window. Getting a win in NE against Brady & this team would be nothing short of a miracle.

Yes, and no disrespect to Tre, but how many times have we had solid rosters with some great players here & there but no QB? How far did that get us? Gilmore was a pro-bowl CB, but did he outweigh having a bad QB? In the past 18 years, here are some of the good/great players we've had: 1. Marcell Dareus 2. Stephon Gilmore 3. Marshawn Lynch 4. Terrence McGee (Pro Bowler, 2 time All-Pro, holds many Bills Franchise records including most career all-purpose yards) 5. LeSean McCoy 6. Antoine Winfield 7. Sammy Watkins 8. Kyle Williams (4 time Pro Bowler, over 40 sacks) 9. Eric Wood (Pro Bowler & one of the top rated Centers) 9. Sam Adams (Pro Bowler, monster DT) 10. Stevie Johnson (Had 3 consecutive 1,000 yard seasons...for a 7th round pick) 11. Nate Clements 12. Richie Incognito 13. Eric Moulds (3 time Pro Bowler, 3 time All-Pro) 13. London Fletcher 12. Willis McGahee (2 time Pro Bowler, averaged 1,121 yards & 8 TD's a season) 13. Jason Peters 14. Mario Williams 15. Ruben Brown (9 time Pro Bowler, 4 time All-Pro, probably the best player at his position the Bills have had since Bruce Smith) 16. Takeo Spikes 17. Lee Evans (Averaged 892 yards & 6 TD's in the 6 seasons he played all 16 games with us...with JP Losman/Kelly Holcom/Trent Edwards as QBs) 18. Cordy Glenn 19. Aaron Schobel (78 sacks over 9 seasons, 2 time Pro Bowler) 20. Robert Woods 21. Brian Moorman (LOL just wanted to throw our 2 time Pro Bowler in there) 22. Travis "Baby Maker" Henry (Pro Bowler) 23. Jarius Byrd (3 time Pro Bowler, 2 time All Pro, NFL interceptions leader in 2009) Note: These were not in any particular order, and I only put descriptions next to some players who some people may have forgotten how good they were. There were plenty more good players you could make an argument for, but the one thing they all have in common is since 2000, they never helped the Bills get to the Playoffs. Even when we had some pretty great rosters, we always were missing a QB. You can hit on other positions all you want, you can pickup great Free Agents all you want, but that method has not translated to success for the Buffalo Bills. If we had a chance to go back & take Watson, but passed it up for a good or even great CB, that would just be another failure in the history of this franchise.

I mean people can claim all they want they'd do it the same way...but if you guys would honestly pass up on Watson given what we know now, you have no right to criticize the Bills FO for being unable to find a franchise QB these past 20 years. And to say you'd rather have a QB from the 2018 draft is equally foolish. You can "think" someone is going to be great all you want, but to pass up on a proven great young QB in HOPE that another QB could potentially be better is simply asinine. Watson wasn't just doing good for a rookie, he was destroying it out there & putting up monster numbers. If we had him on this year's team we'd be a completely different animal & a legitimate threat. Instead of just hoping we squeak into the playoffs & lose the WC game, we'd actually have a shot at winning in the playoffs. Yeah...let's pass up the guy that could make us a fixture in the playoffs for a decade or more for someone who MAY be able to do that, but there's no certainty. If someone offered you 2 million dollars today but also said "Here's 4 cups...under one of them is a check for 5 million, while the other 3 have nothing. Your pick!" Would you really gamble on uncovering the 5 million check instead of a guarantee that you're instantly rich? Again, you have NO right to complain about personnel choices or the state this team is in if you're so willing to pass up on franchise QBs in hope of finding a better one later.

This is the idea I'm struggling with. I can't decide if there's anything to be said for a moral victory in finishing 8-8 or 9-7, yet still missing the playoffs. It might feel good now that we finish with a better record than the previous year, or that we have a winning record, but come draft day I'll be pretty ticked off seeing franchise QB's go to teams other than the Bills because we won some meaningless games down the stretch (unless we can secure a deal with San Fran to move up somehow). Again, mathematically it's possible we make the playoffs, but we've seen this show before... A lot actually. Even last year we were 7-7 and still in contention, with only the Dolphins & the Jets left. We lost to both... In 2015 we were 6-6 with 4 very winnable games left and a great shot at a WC spot. We had the 5-7 Eagles (at that point), the 6-7 Redskins, the 4-10 Cowboys (without Romo), and the 10-5 Jets to beat. We went 2-2 in that stretch.... In 2014 we were 8-6, in control of our own destiny...only having to beat the lowly 2-12 Raiders & the Patriots in week 17 who were going to rest their starters (having once again clinched their spot at 12-3 going) going into their final game. We choked...and lost to the Raiders of course. We finished 9-7, had a stacked roster and a top 3 defense, and all credible outlets said we were 1 player away from being a long-term threat in the AFC...Problem was that player was a QB. Then our HC left, we hired Rex Ryan, and the rest is history. All I know is that the Bills ALWAYS are "close" to making the playoffs at this point in the season, but something stupid always happens & they choke. Last year the Dolphins ended our hope in OT. Assuming we'll beat them twice is quite a lot for the Bills, so it's hard to imagine them actually doing it.

I'm definitely confused which would be better for us. If the Chiefs beat the Chargers & the Chargers win the rest, they finish with a 6-6 Conference record. However, they beat us head to head, so does that matter?

CBS Sports has us as the 6th Seed too - https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/standings/playoffrace

After today's dramatic win, I was quite excited. But within a minute or so, I mentally hit a wall. We know what this team is, and we know how this team plays...so looking ahead at the schedule, thinking about the Patriots in week 16, made me remember we're still probably not making the playoffs yet again. Mathematically we're still in it, but the Ravens edge us out for the 6th seed (although CBS Sports says WE are the 6th seed - https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/standings/playoffrace). In reality, our only real chance at beating the Pats would've been playing them in week 17 & them resting their starters. Beating the Dolphins twice is doable, but far from guaranteed. But beating the Patriots in Foxborough isn't happening when they still have a reason to play their starters. Contenders for the Wildcard Spot: 1. Ravens (7-6) - They play a cakewalk schedule for their last 3 games. Browns, Cots & Bengals. They could easily finish 10-6. If they go 9-7, we MIGHT win those tiebreakers, but according to most projections at the moment, they're ahead. At 9-7 they'd have a 7-5 conference record, just as we would, so there may be a chance somewhere in there, but I'm not certain. However, given their schedule we need someone to pull off an upset for us to even have a shot. 2. Chargers (7-6) - They play the Chiefs, Jets & Raiders, and will likely beat all of them given how well they're playing. They've gone 7-2 in the last 9 weeks, only losing by 8 to the Pats in Foxborough & losing by 3 to Jaguars in Jacksonville. If they lose a game & go 9-7, they'll have a 6-6 Conference record & we'd have a 7-5 Conference record (assuming we only lose to the Pats). They may outright win the West though and leapfrog us entirely. 3. Chiefs (7-6) - They have the lead in the West right now, but that could quickly flip with the Chargers. They play the Chargers, Dolphins & Broncos. It really depends on what Chiefs team shows up, but assuming they go 2-1 during that stretch, they'd have a 7-5 Conference record (tied with us), and have a loss to us head to head. One of them has to win the division, so I'm not sure which would be better for us, assuming one goes 2-1 & the other goes 3-0 to close out the season. 4. Titans (8-4) - They play the 49ers, Rams & Jaguars. They currently hold the 5th seed, as the Jags lead the division at 9-4. Their final game of the season against the Jags could be very important for them, and the Rams are a good team this year. There's a chance they go 1-2 during this stretch, finishing 9-7 with a 7-5 Conference record too. If the Ravens win out, this may be our only other shot at getting in based on tie-breakers, but it's still slim. I'm not even including the Raiders, as even if they win out & go 9-7 they'd still only have a 3-3 division record, and a 6-6 conference record. Thinking about all that needs to go right in order for the Bills to even have a shot hurts my head. Granted the Bills could just end the conversation before it even happens by scrubbing out against Miami next week (which would be predictable given this team's history), but let's assume we don't. With that said, does anyone HONESTLY feel we're making the playoffs this year? And if not, do you guys feel there's something to be said for going 9-7? Or are you in the "no moral victories" camp, and would rather us not win anymore games? I'm genuinely curious as to how this board feels given where we stand.