BigDingus

He can also miss many throws that the large majority of QB's in the NFL can make....And as most coaches will tell you, it's those plays that matter most, not always trying to go for one big home run. Since you quoted my comment, you should notice the part I said "There are exceptions to every rule." YOU can point to the random one-off's....and I'll point to the much larger list of failures. I also mentioned in my post - ".I also notice that sub 60% tends to be where the bad, or at best, inconsistent QB's reside." Do you think Cam Netwon is consistent? Hardly. And Cam Newton was also putting up MONSTER numbers in college, and at Auburn no less, and won the National Championship. Josh Allen put up average numbers, got worse his senior year, and wasn't even one of the top QB's in a weak division. "Oh! But the talent around him blah blah blah!" And? All those other QB's from teams in his division had the same disadvantages. They all played with comparable talent around them. He also had the benefit of playing AGAINST inferior talent, unlike QB's like Cam Netwon, and couldn't do much with it. I'm all for being supportive and hopeful with Allen, but I thought this thread would discuss his real merits & be based in reality, not plucking only what we want to see & ignoring all the other evidence that doesn't fit our narrative....

That, and the fact he was wearing pads on a day they weren't practicing in pads (and he had a different color uniform on). His stunt probably didn't last long when he botched so many things, but still funny he tried.

Because completion percentage & accuracy are just minor things to ignore? (2017 Numbers) Drew Brees - 72.0% Alex Smith - 67.5% Jimmy Garoppolo - 67.4% Tom Brady - 66.3% Matt Stafford - 65.7% Matt Ryan - 64.7% Aaron Rodgers - 64.7% Kirk Cousins - 64.7% Big Ben - 64.2% Jameis Winston - 63.8% Philip Rivers - 62.6% Tyrod Taylor - 62.6% Jared Goff - 62.1% Eli Manning - 61.6% Russell Wilson - 61.3% Carson Wentz - 60.2% Blake Bortles - 60.2% Andy Dalton - 59.9% Mitch Trubisky - 59.4% Cam Newton - 59.1% Trevor Siemian - 59.0% Ryan Fitzpatrick - 58.9% Jacoby Brisset - 58.8% Brian Hoyer - 58.0% JOSH ALLEN - 56.1% (PAST TWO YEARS)***** Tom Savage - 56.1% Brock Osweiler - 55.8% Blaine Gabbert - 55.6% CJ Beathard - 54.9% Deshone Kizer - 53.6% I see the better group of QB's tend to have higher completion percentages to go along with the rest of their numbers...I also notice that sub 60% tends to be where the bad, or at best, inconsistent QB's reside. There are exceptions to every rule, but I know I'd rather have him positioned between Tyrod & Rivers or Ryan & Stafford than Tom Savage & Brian Hoyer or Blaine Gabbert & Brock Osweiler...

Here's the problem with your breakdown...you're assigning fault to everyone but him. People did this with Tyrod, Manuel, Losman, Edwards, Holcomb, etc. too, game after game, year after year. The other problem is every QB in the game has the same stuff working against them...blown routes, poor timing on some plays, dropped balls, effort issues, etc. And even though Allen has always had stats like this from HS to College, people will still blame his completion percentage on others all season. Doesn't matter that he's had plenty of games like that (16 games over the past 2 years he failed to complete 60% of his passes), or that every other QB in the world has to deal with the same types of problems, we're going to pretend when Allen's game performances match his track record, it's not who he REALLY is...and that it's someone else's fault.

Did you forget he also threw a TD too? Darnold is a better player than Allen at this point, everyone knows that. The question is will Allen develop into a better one in the FUTURE. He's also far more accurate (as it seems all the 1st round rookies are & always have been) than Allen. Hoping our coaching staff can somehow crack that code & get Allen at least to 60%. Oddly enough, Teddy Bridgewater might be the best QB on that team, but is probably the odd man out atm.

Props for posting all this in one easy to view post. Really appreciate it. I'm glad some people are enjoying watching him, as am I. I'm still not confident in his prospects with our team the way it is, but doesn't mean I'm not going to enjoy when he does well. Either way, just happy to know at the end of the season I'll have something to look forward to. Whether we're in the playoff hunt for the 2nd year in a row (extremely unlikely), or Allen gets thrown in as the starter since the season's lost, it'll give us all a great reason to stay engaged.

I dunno, out of all the 1st round rookies we've seen so far, Baker Mayfield was the only one who looked actually impressive to me. And with all the talk going on right now about them now wanting to go after Dez Bryant, I think the Browns are impressed too. If Bryant is cheap enough, I wish the Bills would considering signing him. Having another experienced, and talented WR to go with Benjamin would only help any of the 3 QB's we have in their efforts.

Yeah, it definitely jumps out a bit, although the Edwards is a bit bigger, Lawson had better numbers in college but Tremaine may have grow into a better player with time. And even though Lawson wasn't a world beater in the NFL, he still had a productive 10 year career as a starter.

Or maybe he'd get 1.2 seconds of protection against a 1st team D-Line & Linebackers? Did you see how San Diego's line destroyed us last year? We lost both Incognito & Woods since then, so it's unlikely to have improved by losing our 2 best players on the unit. The point in regards to Tyrod is that unlike Mahomes, Jackson and Rudolph, this will be his 8th season, and 4th as a starter. How many seasons have Jackson, Mahomes & Rudolph played so far? Soooo...regardless of what Tyrod does in the preseason, we all know who the F' he is. It's not a mystery, therefore we can make educated estimates as to his average production

I mean, he's exactly what both his detractors & supporters say he is...raw, strong arm, and has accuracy problems. Needs a lot of improvement, but has promise.

Today might've just not been his day, but all reports from national media members have said he's been looking insanely impressive in camp so far. And he isn't even as small as some other linebackers we've signed or drafted. Just a few guys I can think of, Matt Milano is 6'0 & 230 lbs, Kiko Alonzo was 6'3 & 238 lbs, Manny Lawson was 6'5 & 240 lbs, while Edwards is 6'5 & 250 lbs. He's definitely going to put on some size, so I'm not too worried yet.

Cam's more accurate than Allen, and has at least shown he can win at a high level in both college & the pros. Allen has potential, but if Benjamin has these critiques of Cam, I can only imagine the hell he's gonna raise when Allen is going through his growing pains He may actually prove to be a detriment long-term to Allen's development, but I hope I'm wrong.

This "hot take" made me chuckle. I don't know if you're serious or not, but it was amusing nonetheless. Peterman is trade bait because he played decent in 1 preseason game....the logic around that one is hilarious.

That much is true. Although Tyrod would've had a better completion percentage, but also less yards per reception too.

Yeah, that's what a lot of people have been saying, but then he'd be playing against 1st string corners, safeties, lbs and linemen...It won't get much better considering who our 1st teamers are.

But these aren't excuses, I just laid out all the information to present a fuller picture of why "being thrown to the wolves" is a fair assessment. Whether or not Peterman contributed to their turnover differential, every team has a few games where they pick apart a QB (I know we did), so it's not like the Chargers were the only team playing that week & got an unfair stat boost while everyone else took the week off. Hell, they even forced a TO from Tyrod, simply because their pass rush was that good with Bosa & Ingram. Our O-line was outmatched play after play...remember all the threads whining about their "mic'd up" stuff, with the Chargers players laughing & joking about how easy it was to tear apart our O-line?

This last excerpt from La Canfora's article is the most important & telling - "Could be a long year in the standings for the Bills, but I like the direction they are headed in. Progress isn't always linear in this league and last year's roster wouldn't reach the playoffs again in most cases. This is about a long-term youth movement to have the pieces of a perennial contender in place when these youngsters reach their prime. The have cleared the deck of bad contracts and bloated cap numbers and will be poised to make aggressive additions in trades or free agency in the coming years. Given the Raiders' issues with Khalil Mack right now, cant help but think how he would look here, for instance, if he ever hit the market (Mack played his college ball at Buffalo). I know this much, they aren't afraid to be bold here, and they have a shared vision between coaching/front office, which can go a long way in this league." Along with the rest of the article, I feel more comfortable with this coaching staff & FO than I have in a while. Though I didn't like the Allen pick, the fact they have their eyes on the future, and aren't trying to fool themselves into thinking we're closer than we are, makes me believe they can pace themselves & do this the right way.

-Chargers were top 5 in sacks last year -Chargers were top 3 in takeaway differential last year -The Bills haven't won in LA/San Diego since 1985 -Had only a few days to practice with 1st team -Chargers Head Coach was Anthony Lynn in his first year...a guy who knew our players VERY well having been a former coach here -Chargers were 3-2 in their last 5 games, with their 2 losses being: a close game in NE against the Pats, and a 3 point loss to the Jags in Jacksonville in OT...the 2 teams who played in the AFC Championship Game -Traveling across the country to start your first game ever is NOT conducive to a good performance -Joey Bosa & Melvin Ingram = Bad opponents for a 5th Round Rookie -Kelvin Benjamin got injured on the opening drive after catching a 20 yard pass...out for the game (we were already down Jordan Matthews) Also taking into account everyone knew the Chargers were playing much better football at that point (after having loss their first 4 games), eventually finishing 9-7 on the year, it might as well be called "being thrown to the wolves" for a 5th round rookie with a few days to prepare. It was one of the worst possible matchups for a rookie starting his first game.

He was 4-6 his rookie year, with 11 TD's to 9 INT's, and played fairly well for a rookie in many of those games. Hell, he wasn't really even "bad" in those first 4 games, but that loss to Houston really sealed the deal. Should've won that game and gone to 3-1 on the year, but ultimately punted the game. Not saying he was the franchise guy, but like usual, Bills coaches & FO were feeling the pressure of the drought more & more each year, and were in "win-now" mode even though we never committed to full rebuilds. Developing QB's was never our forte, so hopefully with Allen we show a little more patience & prudence. Looking back at EJ's rookie year, it's easy to see Allen playing in a similar way production-wise. This time, I hope we know how to develop him instead of yanking him around & destroying his ability to lead the team.

What does that even mean? Do teams hold a 3rd, super secret draft, where they pick off players from each other's teams? How else do people "draft him from the Bills?"

Williams deserves to be top 3. He was a HUGE signing at the time, and really came out of nowhere. He was one of the hottest free agents, and in his prime, and Ralph actually allowed the FO to spend big time money on getting him here. On top of it, he played very well, and helped anchor a defense that was leading the league in sacks for a couple of years. He was named among the top 100 NFL players in the league by his peers, AND embraced the city. Driving around on his snowplow, helping drive people around in blizzard conditions, the guy was really having fun in Buffalo. Also, he played through injuries, and only missed 1 game in 4 seasons with us. 2012 - 10.5 sacks 2013 - 13.0 sacks 2014 - 14.5 sacks 2015 - 5.0 sacks Seems to me like he was on a roll, all while being a definite focal point for opposing teams to plan against. Suddenly he, along with the rest of our defense, plummets in production when Rex the "defensive guru" rolls into town... Mario could've been like so many other big name FA signings that landed a record contract & fallen off the map, no longer hungry to produce. He didn't. For that I'll remember his time here fondly. Just remember, he didn't b*** or moan whatsoever until Rex completely ruined an otherwise fantastic defensive unit. I don't blame him at all.

I think McCarron, even if Peterman outplays him in camp. Seems Peterman is a good practice kind of guy, and the coaches might be tepid on starting him again. McCarron was brought in to be the starter "for now," with the hopes that he may end up being a steal. Even if he doesn't light it up in camp/preseason, they'll probably give him the benefit of the doubt going in. I don't see any way Allen starts week 1 unless he completely kills it against 3rd teamers in preseason for a couple games, gets a shot with the 1's in the 3rd preseason game, then kills it there. Outside of that, he's shooting for #2 at best.

That's actually not true. They are called 9 time AFC East Champions. Just as the 90's Bills are always referred to as having won 5 out of 6 AFC East championships. Hell, just google any articles that discuss those teams, or the Bills franchise achievements as a whole. Here's just the Wikipedia page of the Bills - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_Bills It even notes "Conference Championships," and "Division Championships" to go along with League Championships. In record books, in documentaries, in discussion, and on banners, division & conference championships are certainly referred to as "Championships," not "wins." Also, your comment "A championship requires a championship game or games where the tow best teams play" isn't true either. There are conferences in College Football that don't have a championship game, yet have a designated champion. The NFL already officially recognizes both division & conference champions...here's even more proof (in case you didn't want to read any articles, watch any videos, or listen to any broadcasts that specifically reference division champions) - You were right...don't worry. I just posted proof in case he wants to keep arguing...

I'd easily take that $200... We know the Bills aren't winning the Super Bowl, let alone the AFC East crown, so the only way I'd be at risk of losing $10,000 would be if the Sabres somehow go from dead last in the league to Championship in one shot. I guess it's possible, but would any non-homer bet the Browns would go from dead last in the league to winning the Super Bowl this year? Hell, even though I'd only make $200, I'd take that bet with 50 separate people & still feel safe. Then I'd come away with $10,000 anyway, even if I did just risk paying $500k

His first year in the league, he had 1,631 rushing yards, averaging 5.1 yards a carry, and 15 TD's (in 15 games). Shady's BEST year, 2013 with the Eagles, he had 1,607 rushing yards, 5.1 yards a carry, and 9 TD's (in 16 games). Shady has been in the league 9 years, and Elliot's rookie season was arguably better than Shady's BEST season in his prime. Elliot isn't even in his prime yet, so it's crazy to think what he can do in the future. Unfortunately, Shady's best days are behind him, even if he can stay productive a couple more years. Zeke missed 6 games last season, and STILL had 983 rushing yards & 7 TD's...Shady played in all 16 games and had 1,138 rushing yards & 6 TD's. Zeke had 269 receiving & 2 TD's while Shady had 448 & 2 TD's. Again...he played 6 less games. And the Bills had the #1 rushing offense in 2015 & 2016, and was #6 last year, so let's not act like we haven't had ample blocking, or that somehow our scheme doesn't suit runners as well as Dallas. We both have a top tier RB, and both teams focus on rushing. Lastly, Zeke is 22 years old, Shady is 30. I'd take Zeke over Shady easily. Shady is still my favorite RB in the league (unless the accusations prove to be true), but in terms of production & potential, especially the next few seasons? Zeke every time.