NoSaint

Trying to secure an invite I see?

it feels, at least at times in some locations, that there’s some sentiment of it being good to let the militia do what the police can’t. Which is a bit worrisome.

Lot of knocks on pff but not much support of Barkley seems to imply they are at least close here

that he crossed state lines with an illegal weapon is still of note, even if the duration of the drive was a bit less substantial

so I’ll frame the thought exercise a different way and promise I’m not advocating disarming police here so please don’t go that route in a response. My point is how quickly we go to guns and how they change behavior- and not if they should have them in the first place but I’m going to take guns out of the list of options here to discuss alternate outcomes. Police should have them but I’m in favor of better training and accountability in usage. in the Blake situation, if the officer did not have a gun do you think he would have been able to resolve the situation without someone dying? Or similarly apply that to the Atlanta Wendy’s shooting? or what would be different in how Breonna Taylor’s home was approached? i understand that they are sometimes needed, so please skip any straw men with the answers.

so if we expand out from whether or not legally justified to how we would think shootings should happen on a broad level... can’t see where he’s reaching - makes me uncomfortable to just shoot every time and call it good. pulling knife- if you can’t give a bit of space then sure but if you can step back a bit to give buffer and continue managing the situation - I prefer that. Gun involved - I skew pretty heavily to giving officers leeway once it’s a gun in hand.

I’ll point out that I did post earlier that I haven’t taken a firm position on Blake yet as it’s both still unfolding and before tonight I had been keeping a bit too busy to have a grasp on all the details. So much of my discussion has been very broad strokes intentionally. that said, your wife cheats on you 10 times, how patient are you hearing out that #2 and #7 may be a misunderstanding? I don’t know your life but suspect you and I are blessed with this being an more abstract discussion for us than for some others who have to look the fear in the face. Not to overgeneralize but I get how some people could be tired of debating the nuance of each and every case and just be angry that there are so many cases in the first place.

always curious to see your take when these pop up as I know you are pretty progressive on a lot of social issues and very empathetic but also a bit of the old school with things like the work place or order in general. I think we both have a hard time with “it ain’t right but I’m not sure that’s how you fix it” in this case Kenny has a stage and financial security that allows him the ability to make a statement. And coincidentally that statement does align with his current industry, so there’s some professional value to being an ally to the players. Honestly I don’t know him or his employer well enough to comment but it’s a hell of a moment playing out

skewing back on topic - Kenny Smith just walked off the inside the nba set in support. will be interesting to see how the nba responds and how far this stretches into other sports as well as related fields

how broadly do you extend the right to shoot based on this video? Or is it still a very high threshold that unfortunately comes with risk?

I suppose no one is always an overstatement. No one here in these conversations was what I meant. And specifically was getting at idolizing behaving as they did. but yes, you brought an article with quotes from his friends and family talking positively about him while also acknowledging his checkered past in it. crazy enough, few of these dead guys are simple pure devils and they, alongside bad choices, also make good ones and make some people happy. I think you’d be hard pressed to find anyone saying we should aspire to live life exactly like George lived his, even if you find some folks that have personal affection for him or that in push back against his demonization also try to share the other side of the human.

to be fair, you kind of changed the goal line a bit bringing it back to solely this case, from your earlier post that implied a general running from police. It might have been unintentional but each of us responded reading it as a broad statement.

no one is exalting Floyd or Blake neither seem like great guys. that doesn’t mean there’s a free pass on anything anyone does to them.

If that’s your takeaway to saying we shouldn’t shoot people for running away than I’ll echo previous sentiments that you are a bad person. And I’ll consider that being nice to you based on what I really think of responses like that.

yes. unless they are an immediate threat I do not believe they should be shot. I think there are very few if any exceptions. I accept that more may get away, and other crimes may be committed as a result. That does not change the opinion. do you think that simply running away should be cause to shoot?

and sometimes, call me crazy, but that’s ok.

not to be rude but it’s not particularly interesting. this one I have been slow to condemn as I haven’t had time to deep dive the nuance of it and still looks to be thin on facts so I don’t feel the need to rush but ultimately your thread comes down to this question: are you comfortable with officers shooting to kill anytime they perceive that someone could be reaching towards a weapon? think long and hard about whether in a nervous state or after a couple drinks you might clumsily reach to grab something proactively? While thinking about it, also consider that some people are a lot more likely to be considered a threat when making the same flub because of reasons other than their behavior. wonder about whether a 35 year old white woman walking away from police is likely to be shot here, as opposed to the black man that just was.

We can’t all be as enlightened as you, luckily.

https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/kyle-rittenhouse-is-a-patriot-god-bless-him.1853096/ as an example? I just googled and it was one that popped up

but when you can shoot for any unknown you can shoot at nearly any time no matter what. That’s precisely the part that worries me. Immediate threat of death/serious harm vs when anything could happen is a thin but important distinction. Sometimes clearer than others and I do try to respect that but also try to remember which side is trained/tasked with great duty and which side is often drunk/high/mentally ill/scared/or just having an awful day. and thanks for the well wishes! I’m in Nola so should be breezy and some spurts of rain. Will be absolutely devastating where it hits though. Really escalated in a hell of a way.

they were playing a playoff game at 4pm eastern on a Wednesday during an interrupted season. You don’t see any other possible causes for a dip?

In the Atlanta drunk driver incident I asked what harm it would’ve been not as aggressively fighting/chasing him. You know, you have his ID, and car... probably not too bad to issue a warrant and pick him up later if he gets away. people responded that he’d potentially steal cars and kill people driving drunk, or hole up in nearby establishments/homes with hostages. I suspect he’d duck down a nearby ally and call a friend for a ride and then get arrested at home sometime pretty close after instead of fighting over a taser and shooting him. that we are so fast to fall in comply or die as a standard does worry me. And I do get it’s a hard job done by imperfect people. And force is often needed. But we sure are quick to justify it.

define expect? im not shocked he was shot. I think we shoot too many people and are cool with it if the guy does just about anything wrong. I don’t think it’s ok to resist arrest. Rarely do I think it should be immediate death.

Yea this is going to probably be really bad for those in the path. Never wish it on anyone but glad it’s off course from the largest metro areas.

you’ve oversimplified his job greatly. It’s simply not just stop entry by all means needed. what he did was out of bounds and for a reason. This is one of many ways it could’ve gone south.