Chef Jim Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 4 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: You get to give everyone free advice. I can do that. Just don't return the favor. Because I appreciate the advice but......oh you know how it goes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 27, 2020 Author Share Posted January 27, 2020 23 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: An incredibly detailed and almost scientific witness account Sounds like it was clouds and fog, and the pilot may have flown slowly but directly into the hill. So anyways, whats everyone think of this account? Pretty crazy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said: An incredibly detailed and almost scientific witness account Sounds like it was clouds and fog, and the pilot may have flown slowly but directly into the hill. Wow, great witness. Very methodical and precise. If his account is correct, it does sound like CFIT (controlled flight into terrain) due to a dropping deck (lowering clouds). Pilot Basics 101: 3 Cs in those circs (Climb, Confess, Comply). Yeah, you might get an action, but your goal in those circs is to stay alive to testify at your hearing. The pilot was in contact with the relevant ATC, because he had asked for VFR flight following (radar services) and been rejected due to poor coverage, so he was all set to yelp for help. If this witness is correct, instead he lost his damned life and took 8 trusting pax with him because he was too much of a (*^*&%^$^#to do what he oughtta. ***** ass. <-----the pilot, though RIP, not the witness 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 27, 2020 Author Share Posted January 27, 2020 1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Wow, great witness. Very methodical and precise. If his account is correct, it does sound like CFIT (controlled flight into terrain) due to a dropping cloud deck (lowering clouds). Pilot Basics 101: 3 Cs in those circs (Climb, Confess, Comply). Yeah, you might get an action, but your goal in those circs is to stay alive to testify at your hearing. The pilot was in contact with the relevant ATC, because he had asked for VFR flight following (radar services) and been rejected due to poor coverage, so he was all set to yelp for help. If this witness is correct, instead he lost his damned life and took 8 trusting pax with him because he was too much of a (*^*&%^$^#to do what he oughtta. ***** ass. He's a sound engineer with a TWA hat on. We got the perfect person in the perfect place to tell the story. Said a guy who has been there 17 years never saw cloud cover that low. Rotors stopped immediately. I appreciate his addition that it all happened so quickly that those aboard probably didnt suffer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: He's a sound engineer with a TWA hat on. We got the perfect person in the perfect place to tell the story. Said a guy who has been there 17 years never saw cloud cover that low. Rotors stopped immediately. I appreciate his addition that it all happened so quickly that those aboard probably didnt suffer. The highlighted is the one bit that struck me. I've lived in CA (many different locations but never out that way) since 1983. We always have low cloud cover. Local weatherman Fritz Coleman used to do stand up and one of his bits I saw was "doing the weather in Southern California is easy. Repeat after me. "early morning low clouds followed by late morning clearing highs in the mid to upper 70's." Everyone in the audience got it! We all hear that report every day. Edited January 27, 2020 by Hapless Bills Fan taking out quoted crap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 27, 2020 Author Share Posted January 27, 2020 Just now, Chef Jim said: The highlighted is the one bit that struck me. I've lived in CA (many different locations but never out that way) since 1983. We always have low cloud cover. Local weatherman Fritz Coleman used to do stand up and one of his bits I saw was "doing the weather in Southern California is easy. Repeat after me. "early morning low clouds followed by late morning clearing highs in the mid to upper 70's." Everyone in the audience got it! We all hear that report every day. Maybe it was even lower than usual? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 Just now, DrDawkinstein said: Maybe it was even lower than usual? Correct. I get that. My point is the weather patterns here are EXTREMELY common and predictable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterRob Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, Chef Jim said: The highlighted is the one bit that struck me. I've lived in CA (many different locations but never out that way) since 1983. We always have low cloud cover. Local weatherman Fritz Coleman used to do stand up and one of his bits I saw was "doing the weather in Southern California is easy. Repeat after me. "early morning low clouds followed by late morning clearing highs in the mid to upper 70's." Everyone in the audience got it! We all hear that report every day. Saturday night?? Are you a helicopter mechanic in Orange County by chance? Sunday night. Excuse me. Still was thinking about loved ones Saturday as well. Coming close to the time of the year when two very important people to me passed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 5 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Please stop this crappy back and forth right now. Youre both embarrassing yourselves in a RIP thread. This. Listen Up! to you other guys: Get a room (take it to PM) if you guys want to bicker, I'm not in the mood. Sounds like one of us (pilots) ***** up and took 8 people with him. RIP, but I hate when that happens. I take it very personally. I don't think I'm alone there in the brotherhood. On the other hand things happen so fast when you're flying and have such permanent consequences if you choose wrong. There but for the Grace go I. The thread is pinned. It is pinned in Off the Wall because that's where the first thread was started, it's not a football topic per se so that seemed appropriate, and the other threads got merged into it. If the first thread had been started in TSW, I might have pinned it there, I don't know. Why does it matter? It's here on the forum for your use. It's pinned. AB is a football player. While we try to eliminate duplicate AB threads, football topics go in The Stadium Wall. Non-Bills/Bills forum split has been previously brought up & rejected. Crap thread that got started got closed in what, like an hour? Want faster service, Report so it doesn't wait on a Mod to notice. If you have a problem with this, 1) go PM Scott and complain 2) volunteer to be a mod so you can make better judgements and better keep your temper when people dole out criticism, abuse & threats OR 3) GTFO and don't let the door hitcha where the good Lord splitcha I'm gonna go clean out a bunch of crap up thread now. I trust it will not come back. That is All. 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 1 minute ago, RochesterRob said: Sunday night. Excuse me. Still was thinking about loved ones Saturday as well. Coming close to the time of the year when two very important people to me passed. Sorry. I've not read this whole thread so wasn't aware of your personal losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 17 minutes ago, Chef Jim said: The highlighted is the one bit that struck me. I've lived in CA (many different locations but never out that way) since 1983. We always have low cloud cover. Local weatherman Fritz Coleman used to do stand up and one of his bits I saw was "doing the weather in Southern California is easy. Repeat after me. "early morning low clouds followed by late morning clearing highs in the mid to upper 70's." Everyone in the audience got it! We all hear that report every day. There's low and there's lower. It sounds like the pilot was an experienced local guy. He had a plan that was presumably based on prior experience with the local weather patterns and it dropped lower right at that spot. Speculation: It may be that area is prone to it and he expected to be able to bullgaffle his way through it. Maybe he'd done so successfully before a few times. Sometimes the most hazardous thing is to take a risk, and succeed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-GunJoshAllen17 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 (edited) When Neil Peart died a couple of weeks ago I was crushed because Rush is my favorite band and Peart along with John Lennon are basically my musical heroes. This is just as heartbreaking for me and maybe even more. There are just so many aspects of this story that devastating. His age, his daughter, all the other victims and the fact that it looks like it could have been preventable. It would be easier if his daughter didn't go with him. Either way it's still very painful. Edited January 27, 2020 by J-GunJoshAllen17 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLTbills Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 On 1/26/2020 at 3:06 PM, Virgil said: ESPN finally just reported it. One of the last to do so. You had one job..... Honestly, with all the misinformation put out by the media yesterday, I'll give ESPN credit. I'd rather be right than first, considering how outrageous it all was yesterday. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 42 minutes ago, CLTbills said: Honestly, with all the misinformation put out by the media yesterday, I'll give ESPN credit. I'd rather be right than first, considering how outrageous it all was yesterday. My friends were texting with me and when one of them texted the Woj tweet, I said now it's official. He's a Bona fanatic and a Facebook friend, but I think I'm totally unbiased when I say why can't journalists be like him - he wants to be fast but he won't ever be fast at the cost of being wrong. I've never seen him be wrong. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: There's low and there's lower. It sounds like the pilot was an experienced local guy. He had a plan that was presumably based on prior experience with the local weather patterns and it dropped lower right at that spot. Speculation: It may be that area is prone to it and he expected to be able to bullgaffle his way through it. Maybe he'd done so successfully before a few times. Sometimes the most hazardous thing is to take a risk, and succeed. You can find the audio transmissions online, were they sped up or was the flight just a few minutes long? Once they were cleared and stopped circling things happened very fast. Edited January 27, 2020 by CommonCents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said: This story hit me hard. First, I lost my dog named Kobe after 10 1/2 years of having him. Saved him 1 hour before they were going to put him down too just because he had been at the kennel 3 weeks. Never thought we would be saying goodbye to the guy I named him after just 2 months later. But that’s not really what got me...it was hearing about his daughter being in there and the other young girls and parents on board. I was 18 years old and my brother was a day away from turning 7 when my father was murdered and he was about the same age as Kobe. It’s hard losing a parent so young, especially when they are so close to you. Heart breaks for his wife and other daughters who will all have different levels of grief as well as the families of the other souls lost. My brother was 7, so it hit him differently as he mostly grew up just not remembering him as well given he was pretty young. I had to learn how to be a man fast and deal with one of my biggest hero’s, motivators and inspirations being gone at the same time. Coincidentally, that was November 1994, and he was a massive 49er fan. That’s is why to this day that was the only year I ever rooted for the 49ers to win the Super Bowl, and that was the last time they won it...a few months later behind Steve Young. Now 25 years later the Niners are back in the SB and I will be once again rooting for them for the first time since in honor of him. And in my $100 per square SB Pool I ran, I bought 2 squares. One says “Kobe” which was originally in honor of my dog but now has much deeper meaning...and the other was the 94th square and has my dads name on it. Last night went to Lakers HQ for the Kobe vigil and was honored to pay tribute and leave a message on the canvas tribute wall they put up with his pic to be signed. Got to thank him for all the memories and most importantly the inspiration myself and so many others have taken away from his work ethics and most importantly dedication to his kids and family. Alpha I was not able to go did you see Quinn Cooke down there? I heard he was there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 There's clouds and there's fog, and they can exist in the same area, because they are the same thing, codensed water vapor, except one is very close to the ground. LA basin has predictable coastal fog at predictable times every year, and it burns off mid morning. A low ceiling can turn to fog with a half degree temperature, and "burn off with just the same temperature change. Nothing strange about it. I would never engage in impromptu accident investigation, but its a really bad idea to hunt around for a cloud base when you don't know it it extends to the surface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 18 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Alpha I was not able to go did you see Quinn Cooke down there? I heard he was there Quinn was at the Staples center where fans just originally gathered and did their own. I went to El Segundo to the Lakers HQ and practice facility where the Lakers organization set up a vigil for the public. I know it was still open an hour ago as I had a friend who was there then. There was a massive canvas wall with his pic on it and Lakers employees had sharpies for everyone to write a message on the wall. https://apple.news/AxgMSUXyWQR6lJd5GW2I_WA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPoy88 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 36 minutes ago, CommonCents said: You can find the audio transmissions online, were they sped up or was the flight just a few minutes long? Once they were cleared and stopped circling things happened very fast. The flight took after just after 9am local time and ended just shy of 10am, where it was ~20 miles from its destination (if it was landing at or around the sports complex.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said: Please stop this crappy back and forth right now. Youre both embarrassing yourselves in a RIP thread. Is it an official RIP thread? Change the title then. I an mostly with you. But, Geeze... What more is there to say if it's just RIP. So much more to talk about. Kobe is very controversial. Edited January 27, 2020 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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