mrags Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Ok, Its no secret that the DE's on this team are VERY overpaid. Weve seen many different thoughts, and ideas from cutting them, to trading them. Why arent we just asking them to restructure their deals. It seems like most FO's would be smart enough to know when someone is grossly overpaid and request this (I know, its asking alot of our FO), But its something that happens often enough each year in the league, and could free up cap space to bring in more talent to help the team win. Its obvious that this needs to happen. Your thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPicc2114 Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Would you like it if your boss asked you to take an optional pay decrease? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbyte Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Why would they do it? They know the Bills will not cut them, so why should they restructure and take less money. If you give them more bonus money I suppose they might do it. They do not think they are over paid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 And how do you know they arent in talks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Why would they do it? They know the Bills will not cut them, so why should they restructure and take less money. If you give them more bonus money I suppose they might do it. They do not think they are over paid Uhhhh, Kelsay better not be trying to take that stance. I think he is the one most likely to be cut if there was a cut coming. I think our FO sees how unproductive the guy really is and how Marv reamed us on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 The only DE on our team that's overpaid is Kelsey. Schobel's deal was comensurate with his production and he deserved every dime given that production. He had his best year in '07 to prove it. Now, the igmos (God bless Hogboy) around here like to point to his lack of sacks in '07 as "proof" that he was overpaid and will hold his injury last season (the same type that limited the HIGHEST paid DE in the league, BTW) against him as well. But that's why they're igmos. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Mike1 Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Would you like it if your boss asked you to take an optional pay decrease? If I only had 2 friggin' sacks I would not have a problem!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 If I only had 2 friggin' sacks I would not have a problem!!!! Yes, you would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted March 20, 2009 Author Share Posted March 20, 2009 Would you like it if your boss asked you to take an optional pay decrease? I dont work in the NFL. You cant ask the question if I would take a pay decrease or not. Your comparing apples to oranges. To even ask this your simply stating that restructured deals do not get done. It happens multiple times a year on other teams. These guys know how this works. They know when they are performing to their potential based on their pay or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bflobarry Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Schobel, over his career, has earned his respect around the league and the $ that comes w/ it. Kelsay has not. Kelsay, in my opinion, should be and will be cut. I'll say, again, that our #1 draft pick has to be spent on this woefully undermanned position. We NEED a pass rush, badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 I dont work in the NFL. You cant ask the question if I would take a pay decrease or not. Your comparing apples to oranges. To even ask this your simply stating that restructured deals do not get done. It happens multiple times a year on other teams. These guys know how this works. They know when they are performing to their potential based on their pay or not. Usually a restructuring means some cap money is pushed to later years and the players get more bonus money. I don't think the Bills , or most teams now, want to push dead money to future years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted March 20, 2009 Author Share Posted March 20, 2009 Usually a restructuring means some cap money is pushed to later years and the players get more bonus money. I don't think the Bills , or most teams now, want to push dead money to future years. Very good point. I will take that argument. I also agree with Bflobarry that Schobel is possibly worth his weight and that Kelsey is an absolute waste of space. However I dont agree that they will cut him, or draft a DE early in the draft. At least not early enough to make any impact in 09' season. Lets just sit back and think about it.... how many times in the last 5 or so years have they drafted someone that we all agree was a need? Every year we say we need a TE, DE, OLB and expect each year that it will finally be the year. This hasnt changed in years. I fear it never will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOBILLS78 Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 The only DE on our team that's overpaid is Kelsey. Schobel's deal was comensurate with his production and he deserved every dime given that production. He had his best year in '06 to prove it. Now, the igmos (God bless Hogboy) around here like to point to his lack of sacks in '07 as "proof" that he was overpaid and will hold his injury last season (the same type that limited the HIGHEST paid DE in the league, BTW) against him as well. But that's why they're igmos. GO BILLS!!! Fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Fixed. Nope. But I agree he had a good '06 as well. In '07, due to the rash of injuries on the D side of the ball, Schobel was asked to do things in our scheme that he wasn't previously required to do. Subsequently, he had his best all around year. He played great against the run, forced some fumbles, and got a fair amount of pressures as well. Schobel has a lot of respect from the players and coaches he goes up against. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOBILLS78 Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Nope. But I agree he had a good '06 as well. In '07, due to the rash of injuries on the D side of the ball, Schobel was asked to do things in our scheme that he wasn't previously required to do. Subsequently, he had his best all around year. He played great against the run, forced some fumbles, and got a fair amount of pressures as well. Schobel has a lot of respect from the players and coaches he goes up against. GO BILLS!!! Hmm. I agree to an extent, but won't agree that he played "great" against the run. I think I'll stick with the 14-sack year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidas Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Usually a restructuring means some cap money is pushed to later years and the players get more bonus money. I don't think the Bills , or most teams now, want to push dead money to future years. Sometimes, but not always. Alex Smith just restructured his deal to avoid getting cut, you can bet your ass he took a big pay cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbyte Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Respect does not win games, because of the cap, this is a what have you done for me lately league. This is what the players wanted with FA. If a player does not perform, he's gone. Well that how it works on other teams. Schobel is not getting any younger and the Bills will have to address his play. He cost too much to be a part time player. Injuries start to mount up as a player ages. He was always undersized to start, I think he is starting to slow down and I do not count on him to be the player of old. Just my opinion, I hope I am wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 You guys all seem to think that these players works as islands and are not inter connected with each other. The real problem last year was Denny and his inability to generate enough pass rush to stop opposing teams from doubling Kelsey. If there was a TE or RB to help chip the DE who do you think they were chipping against,It sure wasn't Denny.So with a healthy Schobel in there, Kelsey should look lots better then he did last year. What sucks about the Tampa 2 defense is that the only players that are supposed to rush the passer are the down linemen, the whole design is to not send dogs or blitezs and just rush with the front four. Everyone is screaming for a pass rusher in the draft this year. If the Bills are really that desperate for a pass rusher,then why not offer Jason Taylor a one year deal like they did with TO. If completly healthy the guy would be an outright terror teamed with Schobel on the other side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 The only DE on our team that's overpaid is Kelsey. Schobel's deal was comensurate with his production and he deserved every dime given that production. He had his best year in '07 to prove it. Now, the igmos (God bless Hogboy) around here like to point to his lack of sacks in '07 as "proof" that he was overpaid and will hold his injury last season (the same type that limited the HIGHEST paid DE in the league, BTW) against him as well. But that's why they're igmos. GO BILLS!!! Schobel???? LOLOLOLOL...yeah right...he doesnt deserve 1/10 of what he is paid.If doing absolutely nothing for years is your definition of earning multi-millions....well I suggest you apply for a job at AIG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lets_go_bills Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 I want Kelsay cut in the worst kinda way. He shouldn't make more than one mil per and should only be a backup. I don't care how nice he is or if he's a "team captain." Cut his useless ass! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Schobel???? LOLOLOLOL...yeah right...he doesnt deserve 1/10 of what he is paid.If doing absolutely nothing for years is your definition of earning multi-millions....well I suggest you apply for a job at AIG. Here is your typical bandwagon answer. He's 31 and most likely has a few good years left. Since 2001 Schobel is second in the NFL in sacks. Only three seasons ago the guy had 14 freaking sacks! This is where the bandwagoners try to convince you that none of his 68 career sacks meant anything to the team. If you have any objectivenes in you, you will see that this is just a foolish argument, generated by the consistently negative few. This is the same type of fan who tells you A- ROD has never hit a meaningful homerun. The next logical place for a hater to try and rip schobel is his health. Haters will say that he is getting old and injury prone. Since when is 31 the age when DEs become ineffective? Injury prone? The guy hadn't missed a game until last year, this includes a string of 116 consecutive starts. So if you want to judge him on his first real injury (last year) or the fact that he had 6.5 sacks in 2007, go ahead. If you recall in 2007 most of us felt schobel was a one man show on the DL and also playing hurt (same injury). I think his body of work speaks for itself and he doesn't deserve the hatred he gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Mike1 Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 WHAT HE SAID!!I want Kelsay cut in the worst kinda way. He shouldn't make more than one mil per and should only be a backup. I don't care how nice he is or if he's a "team captain." Cut his useless ass! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generaLee83 Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Would you like it if your boss asked you to take an optional pay decrease? If I was Chris Kelsay I would feel like I was committing robbery and rape given my salary compared to actual output, I mean aside from the Cowboys game 2 seasons ago has he ever done anything at all? I would never restructure Kelsay, send his asss packing, it'll send a nice message to the rest of the team. The message sent would be far greater than the cap hit. They did it with Dockery, why not Kelsay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generaLee83 Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Here is your typical bandwagon answer. He's 31 and most likely has a few good years left. Since 2001 Schobel is second in the NFL in sacks. Only three seasons ago the guy had 14 freaking sacks! This is where the bandwagoners try to convince you that none of his 68 career sacks meant anything to the team. If you have any objectivenes in you, you will see that this is just a foolish argument, generated by the consistently negative few. This is the same type of fan who tells you A- ROD has never hit a meaningful homerun. The next logical place for a hater to try and rip schobel is his health. Haters will say that he is getting old and injury prone. Since when is 31 the age when DEs become ineffective? Injury prone? The guy hadn't missed a game until last year, this includes a string of 116 consecutive starts. So if you want to judge him on his first real injury (last year) or the fact that he had 6.5 sacks in 2007, go ahead. If you recall in 2007 most of us felt schobel was a one man show on the DL and also playing hurt (same injury). I think his body of work speaks for itself and he doesn't deserve the hatred he gets. Aside from the needless spacing it's a good response although if his golden year was three years ago I think we have a concern although he is certainly worth the risk of one more season. Kelsay can go anytime for all I care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markd2020 Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 If I was Chris Kelsay I would feel like I was committing robbery and rape given my salary compared to actual output, I mean aside from the Cowboys game 2 seasons ago has he ever done anything at all? I would never restructure Kelsay, send his asss packing, it'll send a nice message to the rest of the team. The message sent would be far greater than the cap hit. They did it with Dockery, why not Kelsay? Chris Kelsay was consistently manhandled one on one last year. Often times by the tight end. His Position is a weakness on this team and needs to be addressed. I think a healthy Aaron Schobel would be a significant upgrade to that position from last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Aside from the needless spacing it's a good response although if his golden year was three years ago I think we have a concern although he is certainly worth the risk of one more season. Kelsay can go anytime for all I care. I got yelled at by an older poster with subpar vision, and now I try to space it out a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generaLee83 Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 I got yelled at by an older poster with subpar vision, and now I try to space it out a little. hahaha, probably Ralphy himself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 I would have never done either of those contracts- Kelsay because he didn't show burst to get around an OT and he didn't show power to go through a OT- Schobel because of age, size, and off season conditioning beliefs (when your game is quickness, age and disbelief in year round conditioning are a bad combination) btw if you are pissed at Peters for not honoring his contract you should also be pissed at Schobel who gave not so subtle hints that if his contract wasn't redone it would negatively affect his play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generaLee83 Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 I would have never done either of those contracts- Kelsay because he didn't show burst to get around an OT and he didn't show power to go through a OT- Schobel because of age, size, and off season conditioning beliefs (when your game is quickness, age and disbelief in year round conditioning are a bad combination) btw if you are pissed at Peters for not honoring his contract you should also be pissed at Schobel who gave not so subtle hints that if his contract wasn't redone it would negatively affect his play. I forgot about that, when was that hinted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChasBB Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Would you like it if your boss asked you to take an optional pay decrease? I wouldn't make it optional -- it'd be more like "you'll be taking a pay cut or else ..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChasBB Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 I want Kelsay cut in the worst kinda way. He shouldn't make more than one mil per and should only be a backup. I don't care how nice he is or if he's a "team captain." Cut his useless ass! Oh, but remember, he won the "Ed Block Award"! Gotta keep him forever now. Agree -- I would like to see him simply cut or traded, if possible, for ANY draft pick we can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Here is your typical bandwagon answer. He's 31 and most likely has a few good years left. Since 2001 Schobel is second in the NFL in sacks. Only three seasons ago the guy had 14 freaking sacks! This is where the bandwagoners try to convince you that none of his 68 career sacks meant anything to the team. If you have any objectivenes in you, you will see that this is just a foolish argument, generated by the consistently negative few. This is the same type of fan who tells you A- ROD has never hit a meaningful homerun. The next logical place for a hater to try and rip schobel is his health. Haters will say that he is getting old and injury prone. Since when is 31 the age when DEs become ineffective? Injury prone? The guy hadn't missed a game until last year, this includes a string of 116 consecutive starts. So if you want to judge him on his first real injury (last year) or the fact that he had 6.5 sacks in 2007, go ahead. If you recall in 2007 most of us felt schobel was a one man show on the DL and also playing hurt (same injury). I think his body of work speaks for itself and he doesn't deserve the hatred he gets. There is no hatred here for Schobel. He was above average for a few years...collected some garbage sacks when he had fat Pat and others to take the heat off of him..then slid into mediocrity when those guys left.He has been mediocre for 3-4 years now. Now that he is 31 or 32 and coming off an injury I'm sure he'll be earning his 8 million per;) I think Schobel gives good effort so no hatred here. But even when he was collecting some sack numbers he was never getting a consistent push towards the QB like the better DEs do.-At this stage of the game he is pretty useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 There is no hatred here for Schobel. He was above average for a few years...collected some garbage sacks when he had fat Pat and others to take the heat off of him..then slid into mediocrity when those guys left.He has been mediocre for 3-4 years now. Now that he is 31 or 32 and coming off an injury I'm sure he'll be earning his 8 million per;)I think Schobel gives good effort so no hatred here. But even when he was collecting some sack numbers he was never getting a consistent push towards the QB like the better DEs do.-At this stage of the game he is pretty useless. Schobel had his two most productive years in 2005 and 2006. His sack totals were 26 in that span and his tackles were also up in those seasons. Pat Williams last season in Buffalo was 2004 and his presence really didn't have much to do with Schobel's production. You make the claim that he has been mediocre for 3-4 seasons now. 2005-2008 Schobel- 53 games 33 1/2 sacks 200 tackles Peppers- 62 games 40 1/2 sacks 197 tackles That is pretty nice company, for a mediocre, slow, white, and undersized DE. Of course Schobel's sacks were all garbage time and Pepper's sacks won games. Besides he has never gotten consistent pressure, he just has gotten lucky alot. I am not trying to say Schobel is as good as Julius Peppers. I do however think it's sad that a mediocre franchise has fans that routinely bash one of it's only consistent players. I mean you called him useless and said he should be making 10 percent of what he's making now. IMO, some people need to take a step back for a minute and re-think alot of the things they so freely say on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Schobel had his two most productive years in 2005 and 2006. His sack totals were 26 in that span and his tackles were also up in those seasons. Pat Williams last season in Buffalo was 2004 and his presence really didn't have much to do with Schobel's production. You make the claim that he has been mediocre for 3-4 seasons now. 2005-2008 Schobel- 53 games 33 1/2 sacks 200 tackles Peppers- 62 games 40 1/2 sacks 197 tackles That is pretty nice company, for a mediocre, slow, white, and undersized DE. Of course Schobel's sacks were all garbage time and Pepper's sacks won games. Besides he has never gotten consistent pressure, he just has gotten lucky alot. I am not trying to say Schobel is as good as Julius Peppers. I do however think it's sad that a mediocre franchise has fans that routinely bash one of it's only consistent players. I mean you called him useless and said he should be making 10 percent of what he's making now. IMO, some people need to take a step back for a minute and re-think alot of the things they so freely say on this board. Good point! People have awfully short memories, forgeting everything he has done. He has been one of the more consistant productive DE's in the league up until he was injured. Both in the tackle and sack department. He is getting a little long in the tooth, but if he can come back healthy, I expect him to have a much better year. If he doesn't play well this year, then I think there is little doubt that we would need to seriously consider cutting him and free up that cap room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsBum11 Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 schobel is fine, i kno many people say he makes no big sacks, but the bills havent been good enough to put him in the situation to get a big sack, like in the playoffs. For many years he alwas got his sacks until he got hurt. Nothing you can do about that. Him being healthy next year might be the biggest improvement of all. Kelsay on the other hand can go. Denney does more by batting passes and being stout vs the run. Kelsay has done nothing since being in the league. Hes been a leader, so when the bills were a young team levy locked him up to help the young guys. But he needs to go or do better if the bills are to be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsWatch Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 I got yelled at by an older poster with subpar vision, and now I try to space it out a little. Translation: You got you got yelled at for crapping your pants and spread it on face instead. It is still crap however you distribute it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Translation: You got you got yelled at for crapping your pants and spread it on face instead. It is still crap however you distribute it. You bring up a good point. Thanks for weighing in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booster4324 Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Translation: You got you got yelled at for crapping your pants and spread it on face instead. It is still crap however you distribute it. Link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloed in Pa Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Chris Kelsay was consistently manhandled one on one last year. Often times by the tight end. His Position is a weakness on this team and needs to be addressed. I think a healthy Aaron Schobel would be a significant upgrade to that position from last year. That goes for every De we have .Well the BIG 3 . Clean house on these three. Bring in another vet ...Berry and draft one. Those three powder puffs have to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IQ Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 That goes for every De we have .Well the BIG 3 . Clean house on these three. Bring in another vet ...Berry and draft one. Those three powder puffs have to go. I happen to think Schobel is probbaly overpaid but get rid of all 3? Are you serious? You think you could get three DEs that would be better than Schobel? We need to draft a DE to line up with Shobel, not draft/sign three DE's. We have enough holes as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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