Alaska Darin Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 So let me get this straight. You think the scouts/coach/gm did a great job getting Witner, but then turn around and question them on keeping guys like Reed and Wire? Which is it? 771848[/snapback] As if it can't be both. Did Wire prove worthy of a roster spot last week in his "2 series and then benched for a rookie" audition? Let me give you the answer, since you probably will have a hard time on your own: NO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 So let me get this straight. You think the scouts/coach/gm did a great job getting Witner, but then turn around and question them on keeping guys like Reed and Wire? Which is it? 771848[/snapback] Oh, man. When VABills is getting in your schitt about how you evaluate talent, you know you're in trouble. Whatever you do, don't recommend a movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyMannn Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Vincent set a career high with 102 tackles for Buffalo last season. 771799[/snapback] Too bad they were mostly 20 yards down field Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swift Sylvan Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Too bad they were mostly 20 yards down field 771862[/snapback] Sucks For That Team! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffalOhio Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Let's just hire Vincent as a coach now. 771729[/snapback] He's already a bazillionaire due to his personal businesses. He doesn't need football anymore, and he's played a lot of games. He doesn't seem heartbroken that he's out for the rest of the year, and at this point in his blessed life, why should he be? That being said, he's under contract, and nothing prohibits him from sticking around and 'coaching' the younger guys. He said as much already in the article on BuffaloBills.com. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5 Wide Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 He's already a bazillionaire due to his personal businesses. He doesn't need football anymore, and he's played a lot of games. He doesn't seem heartbroken that he's out for the rest of the year, and at this point in his blessed life, why should he be? That being said, he's under contract, and nothing prohibits him from sticking around and 'coaching' the younger guys. He said as much already in the article on BuffaloBills.com. 771886[/snapback] Exactly......he's set for life and just wants to get out without limping for the rest of his life, a young and hungry Simpson has a chip on his shoulder and something to prove... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyMannn Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 He's already a bazillionaire due to his personal businesses. He doesn't need football anymore, and he's played a lot of games. He doesn't seem heartbroken that he's out for the rest of the year, and at this point in his blessed life, why should he be? That being said, he's under contract, and nothing prohibits him from sticking around and 'coaching' the younger guys. He said as much already in the article on BuffaloBills.com. 771886[/snapback] Isn't he also big in the NFLPA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 You may not be aware of this but the primary reason the Bills are doing this is to torture you. They know how miserable you are and they just want to add to your misery. You should take it personally. 771723[/snapback] Every move is a wrong move to someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Oh, man. When VABills is getting in your schitt about how you evaluate talent, you know you're in trouble. Whatever you do, don't recommend a movie. 771861[/snapback] Unless it's Daddy Day Care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5 Wide Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Unless it's Daddy Day Care. 771918[/snapback] I heard that he only loves that movie because he was an extra on the set Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justnzane Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Isn't he also big in the NFLPA? 771906[/snapback] Yeah he is the head player rep. or president or something like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Awesome. The only thing better than this news would have been Troy Vincent on the waiver wire. He's been afraid to hit for about 4 years now. Let the youngins step on in. Troy can now start his career in taking over for Gene Upshaw. 771750[/snapback] Not sure if it has been mentioned, but I believe they can bring Vincent back this year but he would have to clear waivers first. Since he's an old guy with a fairly large contract there isn't much risk of anyone picking him up. On the other hand it might be time he was put to pasture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 a young and hungry Simpson has a chip on his shoulder and something to prove... 771897[/snapback] AKA fresh veal to the eyes of several opposing qb's on the schedule...cripes, we already have one neophyte pushing on the other safety spot while changing to a pass defense scheme that begs exceptional savvy at that position. Madness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 My reactions to this are: 1. Shoot, i hate it when any Bill starter goes on IR and I am surprised that some who call themselves Bills fans seem pleased about this. My sense was that as an older player TV would could hit the wall suddenly anyway. If he did suddenly play in a manner that he could no longer tie for the team lead in INTs AND FRs then I would certainly hope that his sub played well enough for us to bench him and use him as a reserve. It seemed illogical to me that some advocated the football equivalent of cutting yourself (he did not play well enough last year to call it suicide) by cutting our leading turnover receiver last year with little cap value to be gained from such a cut. When you add into this item that the scheme was moving toward his are of greatest strength and away from the area people whine about most as we went to Cover 2 from Zone-blitz, AND we had just acquired a bunch of young DB who would benefit from on field vet advice to supplement the lead position coaching advice, AND his position of being voted by his peers as Pres of the NFLPA made cutting him as punishment of the NFLPA a stupid and risky football strategy keeping him was the obvious smart football move and I hoped we would at least get 8 weeks of play out of him before he hit the wall. I am bummed we did not get more rime before the injury bug hit. 2. I am quite pleased however, with what Ko Simpson showed us on Sunday and would rather he had taken the job from TV through skill by mid-season rather than being handed the job in week 2 due to injury. However, after seeing him perform a bit Sunday I have my fingers crossed that though he will make mistakes like any rookie, if we luck out these lessons will not come at game criticl times, 3. The Bills did make a talent mistake at safety IMHO, but the mistake was keeping Wire over Baker rather than anything involving TV. Sure it would have been better to have not locked up a roster spot on a player who was injured onto IR in the first game, but this is such hindsight as to not really be a justification. This argument also ignores the fact mentioned above that one should be asking Coy Wire questions before you start asking TV questions anyway. 4, Real life is about making lemonade out of lemons since we have no choice about many of the lemons of injury. It does vary from player to player how much they habg around when they are hurt, It depends on the needs and comfort level of the hurt player (who often are at least around because of access to the docs and rehab equipment), the team (if the player is in their future plans they usually want him around) and the needs of his replacement (sometimes folks are uncomfortable with a "dead man walking" around the team). My sense is that TV will hang around a bit and that is good: A. Position coaching is the lead and the key here, but those who say it is all about the coaches and not about former star players have not been paying attention to the NFL. The game often looks different on the field to how it looks on the sideline, in the pres box or on TV, TV has the ability to supplenent the coaching in an important way if he chooses to. B, I think he is done as a player and I doubt he will want the demotion of being a coach. However, as NFLPA Pres. this year the job requires a player who is under contract. TV will be active talking to his teammates and actually probably will be around the league more now that he has free time so I do not see him walking away from the game just yet. In addition. one of the things many players seem to miss most in retirement is the camaraderies of their fellow athletes and being part of a team which at its best is like a family. TV has enough money and fiscal interests to walk away if he wants, but he will get the benefits of camaraderie if he continues to contribute to the team. it seems natural that he will act as an extra instructor for the young DBs. C. Folks need to also understand that though your position coach is there to help you get better, he is also there to decide whether you play or not. For example, Coy Wire should not be on this team anyway. Does anyone seriously think he goes to the coaches and asks them for help figuring out everything that his wrong with his game and drawing attention to his bad plays? Nope. One of the reasons why uts great to have a vet who knows the game there for a player to talk to and get pointers from is because folks like Simpson, Whitner and Youbouty are not even sure when they get here what you should ask about or not. Having an exprienced vet you to be your confessor and helper is great to make you a better player. So, I am bummed that TV craooed iut so soon, I am pleased that Simpson showed good ability off the bat. I hiope Bowen gets well soon and I am glad we got Leonhard back. i wish we had Naker rather than Wire but uch is life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfanmiami(oh) Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 AKA fresh veal to the eyes of several opposing qb's on the schedule...cripes, we already have one neophyte pushing on the other safety spot while changing to a pass defense scheme that begs exceptional savvy at that position. Madness. 771962[/snapback] Vincent's whole 24 games at FS qualify him as having "exceptional savvy" at the position? In his time in Buffalo, hasn't TV been getting torched pretty regularly? Even if Simpson gets beat in coverage (which we're somewhat used to), could his physical tools and playmaking skills make up for some of it?....Just playing devil's a bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 The good thing for Troy is that, because he was on the roster for the first game, he will receive is entire salary for the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 The good thing for Troy is that, because he was on the roster for the first game, he will receive is entire salary for the year. 771989[/snapback] May be that was the plan and Wilson had a hand shake deal with Vincent to let him play the 1st game and then go to IR and collect his remaining 3M (or whatever he was owed). I hope Vincent can become a DBs coach for the bills and help in mentoring the young guys....A guy cannot be too wrong, having played 15 years in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 AKA fresh veal to the eyes of several opposing qb's on the schedule...cripes, we already have one neophyte pushing on the other safety spot while changing to a pass defense scheme that begs exceptional savvy at that position. Madness. 771962[/snapback] Give me a young, hungry, athletic talent with mad ball skills (Simpson) over an aging, not-much-left-in-the-tank "cerebral" veteran (Vincent) any day of the week. Doesn't anyone remember that the key to this defense is SPEED? Mark my words -- Simpson's energy and effort will make up for his lack of experience. He wasn't undressed last week by the best QB in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Give me a young, hungry, athletic talent with mad ball skills (Simpson) over an aging, not-much-left-in-the-tank "cerebral" veteran (Vincent) any day of the week. Doesn't anyone remember that the key to this defense is SPEED? Mark my words -- Simpson's energy and effort will make up for his lack of experience. He wasn't undressed last week by the best QB in the league. 772034[/snapback] I had no opportunity to see the NE game. How long was it after Vincent went down and left the field? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 This may be the conclusion of Vincent's career. Adios amigo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 This may be the conclusion of Vincent's career. Adios amigo. 772046[/snapback] Thank you Troy. I am sure your teammates like Clements and McGee appreciate how much you have meant to their development. Hopefully you will be able to help out Whitner and Simpson too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 I like it. If Simpson stays healthy, by the middle of next season we could have one of the nastiest secondaries in the NFL. Think back to the Niners when Lott, Hicks, and Williamson were rookies. Of course, they could all end up sucking ass. But I'm not a fan of non-physical guys like TV at the safety position - or anywhere else for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 I had no opportunity to see the NE game. How long was it after Vincent went down and left the field? 772038[/snapback] I think it was mid 1st quarter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 ...by the middle of next season we could have one of the nastiest secondaries in the NFL.772055[/snapback] Just curious if you're including Clements as part of that pack next year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Just curious if you're including Clements as part of that pack next year? 772097[/snapback] Once Nate sees how many chances he can take w/ a couple of ball-hawking safeties behind him, he won't want to leave. (I can dream, can't I?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewin Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 I had no opportunity to see the NE game. How long was it after Vincent went down and left the field? 772038[/snapback] 2nd defensive series From this article Vincent said he was merely reaching over to touch Patriots running back Corey Dillon down when he felt a twinge in his left leg. - unlikely he would have withstood the rigors of a full season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 Vincent's whole 24 games at FS qualify him as having "exceptional savvy" at the position? In his time in Buffalo, hasn't TV been getting torched pretty regularly? Even if Simpson gets beat in coverage (which we're somewhat used to), could his physical tools and playmaking skills make up for some of it?....Just playing devil's a bit 771985[/snapback] No as far as being torched regularly based on the objective evidence out there. His first year here was 2004 and the Bills finished statistically with the second best D in the league. The pron with the Bills that year occured when they had a horrible start, but TV was actually already showing signs of being on the backside of his career and was out. During the win streak the Bills generally were the ones doing the torching. The D problem in the final game agaist Pitts was stopping the run as Paker ran all over us to join with ST failures of Lindell missing a chip shot and NC kaying a PR on the turf along with Bledsoe failing to move the D effectively. Last year, TV tied for the lead the team in INTs and FRs, and the complaint about him in a year where our whole D was ineffective was not about his pass coverage but his tackling as he is not the guy with the past talents to cast him orimarily as a run stopper as the zone blitz sometines calls on safeties to do rather the the Cover 2 which at least tried to use him more correctly though in the end he broke down. If you have any specifics of him being burned regularly beyond the general party line I;d love to see them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 No as far as being torched regularly based on the objective evidence out there. His first year here was 2004 and the Bills finished statistically with the second best D in the league. The pron with the Bills that year occured when they had a horrible start, but TV was actually already showing signs of being on the backside of his career and was out. During the win streak the Bills generally were the ones doing the torching. The D problem in the final game agaist Pitts was stopping the run as Paker ran all over us to join with ST failures of Lindell missing a chip shot and NC kaying a PR on the turf along with Bledsoe failing to move the D effectively. Last year, TV tied for the lead the team in INTs and FRs, and the complaint about him in a year where our whole D was ineffective was not about his pass coverage but his tackling as he is not the guy with the past talents to cast him orimarily as a run stopper as the zone blitz sometines calls on safeties to do rather the the Cover 2 which at least tried to use him more correctly though in the end he broke down. If you have any specifics of him being burned regularly beyond the general party line I;d love to see them. 772363[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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