TC in St. Louis Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 They fly these cats in, spend hours with them, and then sign them to an offer sheet, which the other team seems to always match. Does anybody think Arizona or Chicago will not match these offers? Marv's pretty smart, so there must be some reason he spent all this time and effort on RFAs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyMark Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 Marv's pretty smart, so there must be some reason he spent all this time and effort on RFAs. 635277[/snapback] So you are saying Marv spent ALL his time on Wells and the Chicago DL? Really? ALL of his time and effort. I am pretty sure you do not really mean that, I mean he probably spent SOME time with Davis, Triplett, Royal, and Bowen. So if Marv tries to sign someone and if he fails, then that is bad (Pickett, and ?). And if Marv doesnot try to sign a player then that is bad (Bentley and ?). And if Marv signs someone then that is bad (Triplett et al). So basically Marv can do no right, no? Marv is set up for failure and can not possible succeed given those assessable parameters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olaf Fub Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 I like that Marv is trying this. Like you said, it took few hours of his time and what do you have to lose? At worst, two teams eat up some of their cap space to re-sign their own. At best, we get a young player with some NFL experiece for a low draft pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 Exactly. Apparently Marv can do nothing right. If he goes after released players, then he's signing scrubs. If he goes after RFAs then he's wasting his time because his offer will just be matched. So what should he do? Double the contracts he's offering to get these guys to sign? It's called business. You win some, you lose some. But you have a plan, you implement that plan, you modify that plan, you move forward. But you certainly don't quit playying just because someone out bid you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt in KC Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 I like that Marv is trying this. Like you said, it took few hours of his time and what do you have to lose? At worst, two teams eat up some of their cap space to re-sign their own. At best, we get a young player with some NFL experiece for a low draft pick. 635291[/snapback] I think this is a great use of Marv's time. I personally think we have about a 1 in 3 chance of getting one of these two players. And if we don't, then two more teams out there have invested more $$ in their lines and are less likely to compete with us for the next talent we target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gggbills Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 Exactly. Apparently Marv can do nothing right. If he goes after released players, then he's signing scrubs. If he goes after RFAs then he's wasting his time because his offer will just be matched. So what should he do? Double the contracts he's offering to get these guys to sign? It's called business. You win some, you lose some. But you have a plan, you implement that plan, you modify that plan, you move forward. But you certainly don't quit playying just because someone out bid you. 635297[/snapback] Thank you...I am getting so sick of some of these so-called fans whinning about every single move Marv makes. I am convinced that there are some so-called fans on this board that will not be happy regardless of the move Marv makes. According to these so-called fans, we either pay to much for a player, or we lose them and thus did not pay enough. We either sign a scrub or we let a good person visit and then walk. Everytime another teams signs a player, (regardless of how much they pay him)....that means that "Marv has let another one get away" Wells is a perfect example of what I am talking about. If AZ matches, these so-called fans will say that Wells was great and we should have paid more for him. If AZ does not match, these so-called fans will say that AZ knows something we don't about Wells, and we clearly paid to much. For these so-called fans, there are no moves that will make them happy. They live to B word and whin. I have a suggestion for these so-called fans... at least play it smart and wait until the product hits the field before you start to whin. Your whinning may actually have some merit at that time. Go Bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 Exactly. Apparently Marv can do nothing right. If he goes after released players, then he's signing scrubs. If he goes after RFAs then he's wasting his time because his offer will just be matched. So what should he do? Double the contracts he's offering to get these guys to sign? It's called business. You win some, you lose some. But you have a plan, you implement that plan, you modify that plan, you move forward. But you certainly don't quit playying just because someone out bid you. 635297[/snapback] What he should have done is go out and overpay for Bentley. They've never signed an All Pro OL in free agency. Plenty of Joe Panos', Trey Teagues, Bennie Andersons and Chris Villarials, but never quality. Only drafted 1, Ruben Brown 12 years ago. Not so coincidentally, they haven't blocked worth a damn since the early 1990's. So, let's move on to plan B, C, D, E and then blame the glamour markets of Cleveland and Minnesota for taking up all the good OL in FA. One business rule you forget, when you are the manager, it's always your fault. Excuses don't get it done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 What he should have done is go out and overpay for Bentley. They've never signed an All Pro OL in free agency. 635350[/snapback] How many Super Bowl teams in recent years got there by signing top-dollar FAs on the O-Line? That seems more like a Lions and 49ers approach, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fischer Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 What he should have done is go out and overpay for Bentley. They've never signed an All Pro OL in free agency. Plenty of Joe Panos', Trey Teagues, Bennie Andersons and Chris Villarials, but never quality. Only drafted 1, Ruben Brown 12 years ago. Not so coincidentally, they haven't blocked worth a damn since the early 1990's. So, let's move on to plan B, C, D, E and then blame the glamour markets of Cleveland and Minnesota for taking up all the good OL in FA. One business rule you forget, when you are the manager, it's always your fault. Excuses don't get it done. 635350[/snapback] Say hi to Bentley for us, it's clear you know the guy well. Please ask him exactly how much Marv should have "overpaid" to get him, ask him why he only seemed to talked to Cleveland and what it would have taken for him to play on another team other than his clear "hometown" favorite. Everyone knows that this is like Madden footbal, just keep raising the price and they'll sign. Marv just didn't want the guy enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TC in St. Louis Posted March 19, 2006 Author Share Posted March 19, 2006 So you are saying Marv spent ALL his time on Wells and the Chicago DL? Really? ALL of his time and effort. I am pretty sure you do not really mean that, I mean he probably spent SOME time with Davis, Triplett, Royal, and Bowen. So if Marv tries to sign someone and if he fails, then that is bad (Pickett, and ?). And if Marv doesnot try to sign a player then that is bad (Bentley and ?). And if Marv signs someone then that is bad (Triplett et al). So basically Marv can do no right, no? Marv is set up for failure and can not possible succeed given those assessable parameters. 635286[/snapback] Sorry, dude. What I wrote was "all THIS time," not all HIS time. I went back and checked. Thought you might want to actually read something before jumping all over me like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TC in St. Louis Posted March 19, 2006 Author Share Posted March 19, 2006 Thank you...I am getting so sick of some of these so-called fans whinning about every single move Marv makes. I am convinced that there are some so-called fans on this board that will not be happy regardless of the move Marv makes. According to these so-called fans, we either pay to much for a player, or we lose them and thus did not pay enough. We either sign a scrub or we let a good person visit and then walk. Everytime another teams signs a player, (regardless of how much they pay him)....that means that "Marv has let another one get away" Wells is a perfect example of what I am talking about. If AZ matches, these so-called fans will say that Wells was great and we should have paid more for him. If AZ does not match, these so-called fans will say that AZ knows something we don't about Wells, and we clearly paid to much. For these so-called fans, there are no moves that will make them happy. They live to B word and whin. I have a suggestion for these so-called fans... at least play it smart and wait until the product hits the field before you start to whin. Your whinning may actually have some merit at that time. Go Bills 635325[/snapback] Hey guys, relax. I was wondering if you thought that Marv actually believed he had a chance of landing these guys....because I believe that he must, or he wouldn't spend all this time on them. I'm not whining. I love Marv. I read his book twice. I know you won't go back and read my posts, I've been an advocate of his being GM since before he was GM. I'm a fan of this team, and I am asking questions. Don't call me some whiner, Jesus that's offensive. Relax. Paxil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acantha Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 They've never signed an All Pro OL in free agency. 635350[/snapback] While I agree they should be more aggressive for the OL (I think Schaffer more than Bentley), who is "they"? "They" have never signed an all pro OL in free agency for the couple of weeks "they" have been the GM of a football team in free agency. You can't use past GM's track record to judge Marv. He's got a fresh slate. Now, if he goes 4 years without attempting to upgrade the lines with top talent, then you can complain about what "they" have never done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambler Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 Marv's pretty smart, so there must be some reason he spent all this time and effort on RFAs. 635277[/snapback] Let's take a step back and consider the big picture. A week ago nobody ever heard of these two RFA's. How far has the Bills organization fallen when the big debate is over virtual no name free agents who probably won't even play here. Other teams are signing players like Hutchinson, Bentley, Owens, Brees etc. and the Bills are in a mortal battle for a reserve DL from Manitoba. In this respect, I am disappointed with the Bills offseason .. so far. Hopefully things will improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 Common people, we all know names bring championships, just look at the Patriots, they sign all the big FA's every year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 Let's take a step back and consider the big picture.A week ago nobody ever heard of these two RFA's. How far has the Bills organization fallen when the big debate is over virtual no name free agents who probably won't even play here. Other teams are signing players like Hutchinson, Bentley, Owens, Brees etc. and the Bills are in a mortal battle for a reserve DL from Manitoba. In this respect, I am disappointed with the Bills offseason .. so far. Hopefully things will improve. 635452[/snapback] Ah, the old "i havent heard of them, therefore they must suck" arguement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nero47 Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 Let's take a step back and consider the big picture. Other teams are signing players like Hutchinson, Bentley, Owens, Brees etc. and the Bills are in a mortal battle for a reserve DL from Manitoba. In this respect, I am disappointed with the Bills offseason .. so far. Hopefully things will improve. 635452[/snapback] Given the money they were offered by the teams for which they signed, we may have been able to get one. Which one would have solved all our problems? Unfortunately, the real GM's aren't able to play fantasy football and get everyone they want. If the two RFA's are important enough to be resigned for what Marv out on the offer sheet, I would say they're probably not going to be playing backup roles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 Say hi to Bentley for us, it's clear you know the guy well. Please ask him exactly how much Marv should have "overpaid" to get him, ask him why he only seemed to talked to Cleveland and what it would have taken for him to play on another team other than his clear "hometown" favorite. Everyone knows that this is like Madden footbal, just keep raising the price and they'll sign. Marv just didn't want the guy enough. 635368[/snapback] You're right. I agree that signing Bentley was far & away THE move to make, but it seems to me now that no other team had a chance at him.. he was going to Cleveland & that was that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 How many Super Bowl teams in recent years got there by signing top-dollar FAs on the O-Line? That seems more like a Lions and 49ers approach, IMO. 635367[/snapback] The Eagles for instance, signed Runyan in FA and drafted Tra Thomas and Shawn Andrews in the first round. Seahawks had two All Pros on the OL, both drafted in round 1. The Bills best lineman was a UDFA(Peters), and the rest probably average being drafted in round 5 or later. Seriously. BTW, Woody and Jennings were not in the class of Bentley and Hutchinson, actual All Pros with no real detractors. Woody had a lot of critics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 While I agree they should be more aggressive for the OL (I think Schaffer more than Bentley), who is "they"? "They" have never signed an all pro OL in free agency for the couple of weeks "they" have been the GM of a football team in free agency. You can't use past GM's track record to judge Marv. He's got a fresh slate. Now, if he goes 4 years without attempting to upgrade the lines with top talent, then you can complain about what "they" have never done. 635424[/snapback] Thanks for letting me know when I can complain, I wasn't sure when Marv's freshness date was up. You are quite a trooper being willing to give Marv another 4 years without addressing a nearly 15 year old weakness. My guess is most of the Marv apologists will be sticking "For Sale" signs in Jaurons yard long before that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Thanks for letting me know when I can complain, I wasn't sure when Marv's freshness date was up. You are quite a trooper being willing to give Marv another 4 years without addressing a nearly 15 year old weakness. My guess is most of the Marv apologists will be sticking "For Sale" signs in Jaurons yard long before that. 635513[/snapback] It is a shame Badol. I remember talking to you at RWS in October about Hutch becoming a UFA this year. I can't see any reason why the Bills didn't make him an offer. As for the possibility of him not wanting to play in Buffalo, I remember reading that he and his wife are from Florida. He DID sign an offer sheet from Minnesota, obviously not a huge market, nor a warm climate. The cap space was there, and so was the need. The Bills simply failed to act. The thing is, do we point the finger at Marv or Ralph? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 It is a shame Badol. I remember talking to you at RWS in October about Hutch becoming a UFA this year. I can't see any reason why the Bills didn't make him an offer. As for the possibility of him not wanting to play in Buffalo, I remember reading that he and his wife are from Florida. He DID sign an offer sheet from Minnesota, obviously not a huge market, nor a warm climate. The cap space was there, and so was the need. The Bills simply failed to act. The thing is, do we point the finger at Marv or Ralph? 635557[/snapback] Marv, Ralph, what's the difference? At some point management needs to realize they need to do something drastic with this OL. Fifteen years of trying to patchwork an OL together has not worked, it was time to make a move. It's not every year that you have the best players at two OL positions available in FA. Nobody needed it as badly as Buffalo. Not Cleveland, not Minnesota, nobody. Didn't get done. Now it's up to Marv to make chicken salad out of chicken sh*t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 It is a shame Badol. I remember talking to you at RWS in October about Hutch becoming a UFA this year. I can't see any reason why the Bills didn't make him an offer. As for the possibility of him not wanting to play in Buffalo, I remember reading that he and his wife are from Florida. He DID sign an offer sheet from Minnesota, obviously not a huge market, nor a warm climate. The cap space was there, and so was the need. The Bills simply failed to act. The thing is, do we point the finger at Marv or Ralph? 635557[/snapback] Not saying Marv would've gone after him cause I don't know, but I think it's another case like Bentley where they never had a chance, IMO he had cut a deal with the Vikings quite a while ago... you might as well also slam every other GM that had cap room available, or you can take your hat off to the Vikings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Is Marv Awake? Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Ah, the old "i havent heard of them, therefore they must suck" arguement. 635473[/snapback] Ah. The even older " the old blah blah blah arguement" post. Prevents you from coming up with anything interesting to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Ah. The even older " the old blah blah blah arguement" post. Prevents you from coming up with anything interesting to say. 635577[/snapback] And you think talking like you expect Mr. Levy to make this miraculous move, and win the Superbowl this yearis interesting? He's building, and being smart- this year is about weeding out the people he doesn't want. You don't just bring in players because you have money......Dallas will learn that harsh lesson this season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Is Marv Awake? Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 And you think talking like you expect Mr. Levy to make this miraculous move, and win the Superbowl this yearis interesting? He's building, and being smart- this year is about weeding out the people he doesn't want. You don't just bring in players because you have money......Dallas will learn that harsh lesson this season 635580[/snapback] I would be happy with just ONE move that made this team better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Not saying Marv would've gone after him cause I don't know, but I think it's another case like Bentley where they never had a chance, IMO he had cut a deal with the Vikings quite a while ago 635575[/snapback] Why would he do that? He is a member of a superbowl team, and the Vikes just traded away their quarterback. Do they have a running back as good as Alexander? I am thinking that almost all of these guys want the biggest contract. Admittedly, some might consider family matters, but their careers are short, so the need is there to sign for the big bucks. If the Bills need to overpay, so be it. The Bills needed to make a run at Hutch. Now, people are saying that there is a chance that we can get DaBrick. Can you imagine if we did both? People whine about keeping Moulds. One poster even insists that we pay him his full 06 salary. We don't need old, malcontent stiffs. We need young football players who are capable of blocking other humans, and until we get them, we are simply going to keep on losing. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 I am thinking that almost all of these guys want the biggest contract. Admittedly, some might consider family matters, but their careers are short, so the need is there to sign for the big bucks. If the Bills need to overpay, so be it. 635592[/snapback] Thats neither Mr. Levy's decision, nor yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Why would he do that? He is a member of a superbowl team, and the Vikes just traded away their quarterback. Do they have a running back as good as Alexander? I am thinking that almost all of these guys want the biggest contract. Admittedly, some might consider family matters, but their careers are short, so the need is there to sign for the big bucks. If the Bills need to overpay, so be it. 635592[/snapback] I hear ya, but the best way to get the biggest contract is to visit several teams, play them against each other & against your old team, & sign with the team that will give you the most jack. And for whatever reason(s), that didn't happen with Hutch, he signed with the Vikings the very first day that he could without visiting anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Wells is a perfect example of what I am talking about. If AZ matches, these so-called fans will say that Wells was great and we should have paid more for him. If AZ does not match, these so-called fans will say that AZ knows something we don't about Wells, and we clearly paid to much. 635325[/snapback] Wow, are you always this much of an arrogant ass? I for one don't think this scrub is the answer to our OL woes, but that's just me. They didn't even try to pick up a pro bowl center. Wells? Give me a fuggen break. Take a look at the moves Miami's made. There's a team serius about winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acantha Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Thanks for letting me know when I can complain, I wasn't sure when Marv's freshness date was up. You are quite a trooper being willing to give Marv another 4 years without addressing a nearly 15 year old weakness. My guess is most of the Marv apologists will be sticking "For Sale" signs in Jaurons yard long before that. 635513[/snapback] You may (and regularly do) complain as much as you want. But in your post you say that they haven't gone after top Oline talent in years. Marv just got here. He has to have more than weeks to do something. And no, I don't expect him to do nothing over the next 4 years. I expect changes. But there is a big difference between 4 years (or the two that I "expect" it to take to clean some stuff up) and what he has so far had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acantha Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 The cap space was there, and so was the need. The Bills simply failed to act. The thing is, do we point the finger at Marv or Ralph? 635557[/snapback] The Hutch deal is said to be for 13mil in the first year, and now Seattle is thinking about actaully signing. Do you think it would have been wise to offer that much? I do not. With all the holes I can't see anyone being worth that much money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambler Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Thats neither Mr. Levy's decision, nor yours. 635593[/snapback] It kind of reminds me of the good ol' days when the faithful used to say, " I trust Mike Mularkey, I trust Jerry Gray, I trust Ralph Wilson, I trust Tom Donahoe, the fans are idiots...." Now it's, "I trust Marv." I hope Marv succeeds beyond everyone's wild imagination, but you have to be a wild eyed optimist to see how the team has improved it's competitive position vs. Miami and New England in the AFC East. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gggbills Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Wow, are you always this much of an arrogant ass? I for one don't think this scrub is the answer to our OL woes, but that's just me. They didn't even try to pick up a pro bowl center. Wells? Give me a fuggen break. Take a look at the moves Miami's made. There's a team serius about winning. 635600[/snapback] Do you always call people names when you do not like their post. The fact that you have to do such things pretty much tells me all I need to know about you. How do you know they did not try to pick up a pro bowl center? the fact that they did not pick up one does not mean they did not try. Or perhaps you have some inside information you would like to share with the rest of us. Perhaps you work at OBD and and have first hand knowledge of what the Bills tried and did not try to do. Take note of this post. I do not argree with what you wrote, but I did not call you any foul names. I have found that people with an avg. I.Q. or above can refrain from such behavior. However, if you find that you can not control yourself, try this......attack the post, not the poster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 The Hutch deal is said to be for 13mil in the first year, and now Seattle is thinking about actaully signing. Do you think it would have been wise to offer that much?I do not. With all the holes I can't see anyone being worth that much money. 635603[/snapback] Of course it would have been wise. The man is as good as any guard in the NFL, and is younger than most top guards.The contract WAS excessive, but in 3 or 4 years it won't look as bad as the cap keeps rising. I really do understand your point about the Bills having other holes, but we pick often and early in April, and there is 5 mil cap space sitting around whining with his "advisors." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Ah, the old "i havent heard of them, therefore they must suck" arguement. 635473[/snapback] Which of course, is the other side of the "their team didn't want to re-sign them, so they must suck dregs, which is why Marv and Ralph were able to sign them for the price of a toe jam sandwich" argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cåblelady Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Do you always call people names when you do not like their post. 635701[/snapback] I call you Sweetie......even when you stand me up at games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACor58 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Before some of you jump on this post and say..."The Cardinals / Bears haven't matached yet" hear me out. I am not advocating that we overpay for players, unless the front office sees a tremendous amount of upside in any potential player. However, that last two attempts to sign RFAs seem like all we did was do these two guys a favor, since neither had been reported to go on any other FA visits. It was widely known that the Cardinals were going to match any reasonable offer that they Bills made for Wells and reports out of Chicago indicated the same for Idonije. The deals that Marv and Co. put together were nothing more than market value, with relatively low signing bonuses, and probably didn't do much to prevent their prospective teams from matching. So if that is the case, why bother doing it? Are they trying to send a message to the fans saying "Hey look at us, we are active in FA." Maybe the front office didn't see much potential in these guys, I don't know. But if you are going to make an effort to sign these guys go ahead and make a strong effort. Don't just dick around and pretend like you are trying to sign these guys. I hope that I am wrong amd we sign both, but the reports out of Phoenix and Chicago have both teams leaning towards matching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fischer Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 See below for half dozen threads on this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like A Mofo Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Marv is a bafoon with zero credentials...he sucks...fire him, fire Jauron...fire everyone...you mean you did not receive the memo from Is Marv Awake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gggbills Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 I call you Sweetie......even when you stand me up at games. 635792[/snapback] WOW!!! You just made my day cablelady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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