Paying the Wrong People

[Mikie2times]

If I have one main area I don’t like with how Beane manages the roster signings it’s just how frequently he tries to avoid a player going into his final year or final couple years of a deal to “save” for the future as more cap is added and that contract likely grows. It is a logical strategy in many ways but also ignores elements that can be beneficial when you allow players to enter a final contract year.

 

By allowing that additional year/sometimes two years, you get peak production from the player. You get the benefit of seeing how the rest of your roster is developing and if that signing makes sense. You get the benefit of ensuring that contract is for somebody that is healthy. Waiting is an insurance policy. You don’t always need to use insurance, but to just eliminate it entirely is a mistake. One that has forced us to eat some pretty big contracts, easily making up for any savings from signing guys earlier.

[gonzo1105]

23 minutes ago, Augie said:

We should be more like the Bengals. They went to a Super Bowl a few years ago, remember? 

 

 

Instead of blaming the FO for the Rousseau contract, maybe you should praise the incredible Bosa contract? This seems to indicate a predisposition. 

 

Yes, Groot makes $20AAV, but the top DE’s all make at least double that, in the $40-45Mil AAV range. He’s not a speedy, bendy edge rusher, piling up sacks. That’s not what he does, and that’s not how he’s paid, so I’m fine with the deal. Saying it’s not as good as the Bosa deal is silly and fails to give credit for the STEAL that was the Bosa signing. The Big Picture is helpful for perspective when viewing these deals. Bosa might be one of the very best signings in the entire NFL last offseason. 

 

And cherrypicking examples with the benefit of hindsight is so worn out here…..

I agree with we know what Rousseau is now. He’s a run defending base end that will get 6-8 sacks a season. 
 

The problem is the Bills have never had enough sack guys to allow him to just be that guy. If Bosa was getting 10 and Hoecht was healthy and getting 10 no one would care as much about him being a run guy. That’s why the Hoecht injury hurt because you could see the evolution of the defensive front and now we’re back to playing base 4 down 

[BearNorth]

10 minutes ago, finn said:

Who gave it to you? That's the key question. 😉

I made the mistake when I was living in Music City of taking my kids the weekend before Christmas to Restoration Hardware, and said hammer showed up under the tree, so it was either the wife or one of the kids.

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

I agree with we know what Rousseau is now. He’s a run defending base end that will get 6-8 sacks a season. 
 

The problem is the Bills have never had enough sack guys to allow him to just be that guy. If Bosa was getting 10 and Hoecht was healthy and getting 10 no one would care as much about him being a run guy. That’s why the Hoecht injury hurt because you could see the evolution of the defensive front and now we’re back to playing base 4 down 

 

But then Hoecht got hurt, so here we are. I still can’t blame the way they went about the team building. Like signing Von, they took a swing and it didn’t work out. 

 

I’d be excited to see this defense play if they were healthy, but that’s hard to come by. 

[DanM]

3 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

I agree with we know what Rousseau is now. He’s a run defending base end that will get 6-8 sacks a season. 
 

The problem is the Bills have never had enough sack guys to allow him to just be that guy. If Bosa was getting 10 and Hoecht was healthy and getting 10 no one would care as much about him being a run guy. That’s why the Hoecht injury hurt because you could see the evolution of the defensive front and now we’re back to playing base 4 down 

 

[SCBills]

Rousseau’s contract is fine.. not good, not bad.  I criticize him, but alot of it is because we don’t ever have a DE1 across from him.  Id point out that since Chris Jones has fallen off a bit, Chiefs fans are having the same frustrations with Karlaftis. 
 

Benford just needs to stay healthy in the playoffs.  I was about to lose my mind when he was meh early this year, and we’ll see if he rises to the challenge this week, but he’s looked every bit of a legit CB1 as of late. 
 

Cook.  Home run.  Only a handful of RB’s you should pay and he’s one of them. 
 

Bernard’s extension is frustrating.  Both in terms of paying him and the doubling down of their philosophy at LB.  I’ll give him grace for being hurt, and maybe he makes some big plays when it matters.. he has a knack for that, but I just don’t think our undersized DT/LB combo is helpful both in terms of injury risk and play on the field in the current NFL.  

 

My most controversial annoyance of recent extensions is Shakir.  I don’t think he’s a reliable slot.  I think he’s a guy you move around.. slot, backfield, motion etc. A chess piece.  I haven’t seen him be a reliable piece in a functioning passing offense.  Some of that could be Brady, but I do think some of it is Shakir’s skillset.  Good player.. not sure his skillset is something I’d pay what we did for though. 
 

I like Bosa a lot.  In a vacuum love the signing.  Still do.  Get him healthy for the playoffs.  That said, we had a plan and then completely deviated from that plan and played him a ton. Injuries etc, I get it.  Priority 1 has to be getting him healed up now. 
 

Hoecht is someone, who as a vision, makes a ton of sense.  But we signed him knowing he had a PED suspension.  PED’s are known to make you higher risk for tendon/ligament injuries.  This was always the risk. 
 

Ogunjobi, I’m fine with it.  Beane couldn’t foresee all these injuries and wanted to make sure we were OVERLY stocked on the DL, only to have this year be so over the top with guys getting hurt. 
 

Palmer, WR room in general.  No excuse for.  Huge, monument failure.  He just paid Samuel whos always hurt and turns around to do the same with Palmer.  Two B level WR’s with injury histories and we expected anything different?

 

His drafting has been middle of the pack in recent years with some huge misses in Elam, Keon and Kincaid.  All for different reasons, but all showing that they’re guys we massively missed on with three recent top 33 picks.   Just can’t happen.    Some hits later in the draft, some TBD’s and some misses.  
 

Just very meh. 
 

This is the first year where I’ve thought Beane has now been hurting us, and I think McDermott believes this as well. 
 

I don’t think Beane is awful.  I think he’s middle of the pack as a GM since drafting Allen and has been an acting like he’s some untouchable guy this year.  
 

If one thinks Beane assembling a team with an elite QB, elite OL, but pretty average everywhere else with a constant issue at WR is worth keeping, so be it.   But I fear he’s trending down lately.  
 

I do hope this Defense gets healthy and balls out in the playoffs.  I do hope our WR room makes some strides and makes Allen’s life a bit easier as they gel with him.  
 

I don’t actually want to feel like we need to fire the GM.  I’d love to make a post here at the end of the season saying he’s won me back over. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

11 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

No, he has a service with two men dressed as Santa Claus,  no *****

First time they shoveled, they got minimum wage.  During the second snowstorm, Beane brought them inside for hot chocolate, and raised their rate to $70 an hour. 😁

[DanM]

8 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

If I have one main area I don’t like with how Beane manages the roster signings it’s just how frequently he tries to avoid a player going into his final year or final couple years of a deal to “save” for the future as more cap is added and that contract likely grows. It is a logical strategy in many ways but also ignores elements that can be beneficial when you allow players to enter a final contract year.

 

By allowing that additional year/sometimes two years, you get peak production from the player. You get the benefit of seeing how the rest of your roster is developing and if that signing makes sense. You get the benefit of ensuring that contract is for somebody that is healthy. Waiting is an insurance policy. You don’t always need to use insurance, but to just eliminate it entirely is a mistake. One that has forced us to eat some pretty big contracts, easily making up for any savings from signing guys earlier.

Can’t disagree.  Biggest cap savings are Von’s 15 million comes off, Dawkins, Brown, Shakir, and Rousseau.  I’d only keep Dawkins.  They don’t believe Shakir can get open.  His average pass is 3 yards.  Brown hurt every year, and looks like he will have perpetual back problems, and it seems like there are replacements on the roster.  Rousseau is an end that can’t rush the passer.  Trade what you can for picks and package picks to move up.  We also need to stop drafting players with injury histories: Kincaid, Jackson, and Hairston.  I don’t trust the gm to get any of this right.  Take 2 years to reload and then take a serious run.  Broncos did it with Elway and then won 2.

[Mikie2times]

15 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

I agree with we know what Rousseau is now. He’s a run defending base end that will get 6-8 sacks a season. 
 

The problem is the Bills have never had enough sack guys to allow him to just be that guy. If Bosa was getting 10 and Hoecht was healthy and getting 10 no one would care as much about him being a run guy. That’s why the Hoecht injury hurt because you could see the evolution of the defensive front and now we’re back to playing base 4 down 

It’s like giving the bag to Phil Hansen. 

[Mike in Horseheads]

1 hour ago, BearNorth said:

I actually have a hammer that has screwdrivers that store in the hollow handle.  Got it for Christmas one year.

That must be a big ass hammer

[Goin Breakdown]

There's too many points to your post (for many) to thoughtfully respond and respect the conversation, so expect snark and backlash. While I understand most all of what you are saying, most of this could be debated and talked about through several threads here. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

49 minutes ago, wagne591 said:

I for one thought Beane was doing a good job in the beginning of his tenure but not so much as of late.  Here is my list of why Beane screwed up and why both he and McD need to go.

1.  Both are great coaches/GM but as time goes by so does your window of opportunity.  As McD said after the Texans game about this roster, he said that while he “loves these players,” he admitted the team doesn’t have what he considers a “super-Bowl-caliber” roster. That is on Beane and paying all the wrong players. I mean look at the guys he signed this year alone:

 Bosa DE (was killing it but we all knew he would get hurt eventually and miss some games, which he is at the most crucial part of our schedule)

 Palmer WR (signed a three year deal and was the forth/fifth receiver with the chargers so far he has played 8 games and has 18 catches for 272 yards 0 TDs)

 Hoecht DE great signing for the game and a half he played was impressed but was suspended the first six games played a little in Carolina and was killing it against KC then got hurt and is out for the season.

  Ogunjobi DT suspended first six games now playing but probably our worst DT on the roster. 

 

Honorable mention Curtis Samuels last year 14 games (only started 2) for 31 catches 253 yards 1 TD; 2025 6 games 0 starts 7 catches 81 yards 1 TD.  and we gave that guy $24M for 3 years.  

  

2.  Signing the guys he drafted instead of signing players that will help.  

Here is a list of players Beane Drafted then signed to big contracts:

 Josh Allen - Franchise QB drafted 2018 (best move Beane ever did)

 James Cook - RB drafted 2022 (great move but almost lost him to free agency because Beane didn't want to pay him)

 Khalil Shakir - WR, drafted 2022 (average WR probably paid too much for him 5yr $56M)

 Christian Benford - CB, drafted 2022 (probably paid him market value 6yr $69M)

 Greg Rousseau - DE, drafted 2021 (overpaid for a 5 sack a year guy who never got better, 4yr $80M)

 Terrel Bernard - LB, drafted 2022 (overpaid, 4yr $42M)

 

IMO only 2 of these contracts make sense (Allen, Cook); I can live with 2 (Shakir, Benford); and two I could have done without and used that money somewhere else (Rousseau, Bernard).  Bernard is small and gets washed out of a lot run plays, Shaq Thompson makes our Defense way better for only 1.25 million this year.  He is bigger stronger and better against the run which forces team to play into our strengths (pass defense).  Maybe Bernard will be better in the Malino role but Bernard is hurt a lot also just like Milano.  Rousseau is getting paid an average of 20M a year and Bosa is getting paid 12.6M this year and has already proven to be a way better pass rusher then Greg.  Greg is in his fifth year and has played in 74 games and has 28 career sacks (not cutting it).  For example, Jaelan Phillips drafted right before Greg played in 59 career games and has 27 career sacks.  You don't sign a guy because you like him you sign him because he is a good football player.  We need to get back to that.    

 

3. Bringing back dead weight over and over again.

  Retreads 

  Philips, Lawson, White, Davis, Jackson, Poyer, Spector, Broeker (all dead weight if you ask me) when we had guys like Tim Settle (DT Texans now), Puna Ford (DT Seahawks now) both did nothing in Buffalo after signing free agent contracts never got a chance if you ask me and are now killing it with their new organizations.  

 

4. McD hiring from within all the time instead of going outside the organization.

  Coach McD always hires from within (Brady and Badich) IMO we were better with Daboll and Frazier on the staff running their respective units.  It makes me wonder why Daboll and McD had a rocky relationship, and Frazier was fired.  I believe McD was responsible for the whole 13 seconds debacle when he played the analytics instead of going with his gut and kicking it inbounds.  I want to believe that Frazier was telling him to kick it in bounds to kill some time and when McD's plan backfired he fired Frazier.  When Frazier was running the D the opposing team always seemed to have a good opening drive but then Frazier made adjustments, with Badich running the D the opposing team has a good first half and some of the games get away from us, but after the half when the game is already lost he makes adjustments).  For example the Atlanta game right before the half with under 2 minutes the Falcons drove right down the field to get into FG range which was almost a TD, and the Texans game right after the Bills scored to get some momentum the Texans went right down the field and scored a TD right before the half. both unacceptable.  

 

5. What is up with all these injuries, I know it happens around the league but dam.

 Our training staff sucks, or our coaches are being over-protective.  

 

6. What happened to the players being the best version of themselves (remember when JA17 first got here and that was one of the things that lured people in).  Now it feels like it is not that anymore and it is do what I say and like it and smile.  No top end WR free agent is going to want to come here to run block all the time because that is not what they want to do.  They want the ball to make plays not to block.  

 

I think a lot of things are missed here but i do like reading things like this that aren't fully rooted in a bias. 

 

1 - I don't disagree.  We barely wade into the FA pool here so you tend to want to see some impact before some splash.  Injuries are going to happen to players though.  

 

2 - 

• Shakir's contract was about the same in AAV as the deal gabe davis and darnell mooney signed in 2024.  I think his value there is appropriate and will probably age pretty well.  
• Benford's contract was the 8th highest AAV of deals signed just in 2025.  I think he's somewhere around 18 or 19th total.  To me that reads fair market value, and will probably age well.  
• Rousseau is overpaid, but it doesn't mean he's a bad player either.  It's also not really an egregious overpay either.  You mention bosa as getting more pass rush for the money, but he's also caused a lot of issues defensively with his poor gap integrity against the run.  
• Bernard is a captain so there's a little bit of an overpay.  There's like 7 off ball linebackers with ~10M AAV, so it's not like he's jumping off the page.  He missed camp with a hamstring, re-aggravated an ankle injury, and now he screwed up his elbow on a weird tackle.  He's likely here through 2027 unless he's traded.  Dre greenlaw got the same 10M coming off a playoff achilles injury 

3 - Other than White, all of these are mid-season injury replacements for Carter (DT5), Jackson (DE5), Palmer (WR2), Rapp (FS), Bernard (LB5).  The options are either players who have never practiced here, and don't necessarily represent upgrades, or bring in players you've seen play quite a bit.  Devil you know (they are old or not good), vs. devil you don't.  

 

4 - Frazier was the DC during that bengals debacle.  That alone was pretty much a fireable offense.  You promote from within because it empowers young coaches to feel they have the ability to earn promotions.  Brady was brought in as an heir-apparent, and stepped in and settled down that hot/cold dorsey offense down the stretch.  Babich was interviewing with other teams for their coordinator position, and has a family pedigree of coaching. 

 

5 - I think there's reason to be critical of the strength and conditioning staff, seems like the team has torn pecs/biceps, pulled hamstrings/quads/groins quite frequently.  There have been a number of practice injuries this year which is concerning.  At the same time, the tackling was so bad to start the year that you HAD to improve the practice intensity.  Seemed like that coincided with more soft tissue injuries.  

 

6 - I think there's still and will always be a buffalo effect here.  There are a number of players... who do not want to play here.  The weather alone to me always will deter a lot of people.  Factor in night life and stuff and its not always a place people want to live.  As for WRs having to block?  Yeah, thats going to be important for any team that plays in the rust belt.  It's a mistake to NOT have that be a large part of your identity.  You WANT to play football in december and january at home, and that means wind/snow/cold that tends to favor a running football team.  

 

I want to be clear, you are not WRONG in your criticism of Beane.  I think there's more than enough reasons to be, but there's nuance and context.  "Go out and get a WR" doesn't really work when the available trade options aren't good.  Trading for holdouts like Samuel, Mclaurin, or Metcalf were not looking to be smart moves - and none of them really worked out for their team this year.  Davante has been solid this year, but with that contract you probably don't get Bosa.  Also not really sure he was interested in coming here so its speculative.  

 

[Ya Digg?]

1 hour ago, wagne591 said:

I for one thought Beane was doing a good job in the beginning of his tenure but not so much as of late.  Here is my list of why Beane screwed up and why both he and McD need to go.

1.  Both are great coaches/GM but as time goes by so does your window of opportunity.  As McD said after the Texans game about this roster, he said that while he “loves these players,” he admitted the team doesn’t have what he considers a “super-Bowl-caliber” roster. That is on Beane and paying all the wrong players. I mean look at the guys he signed this year alone:

 Bosa DE (was killing it but we all knew he would get hurt eventually and miss some games, which he is at the most crucial part of our schedule)

 Palmer WR (signed a three year deal and was the forth/fifth receiver with the chargers so far he has played 8 games and has 18 catches for 272 yards 0 TDs)

 Hoecht DE great signing for the game and a half he played was impressed but was suspended the first six games played a little in Carolina and was killing it against KC then got hurt and is out for the season.

  Ogunjobi DT suspended first six games now playing but probably our worst DT on the roster. 

 

Honorable mention Curtis Samuels last year 14 games (only started 2) for 31 catches 253 yards 1 TD; 2025 6 games 0 starts 7 catches 81 yards 1 TD.  and we gave that guy $24M for 3 years.  

  

2.  Signing the guys he drafted instead of signing players that will help.  

Here is a list of players Beane Drafted then signed to big contracts:

 Josh Allen - Franchise QB drafted 2018 (best move Beane ever did)

 James Cook - RB drafted 2022 (great move but almost lost him to free agency because Beane didn't want to pay him)

 Khalil Shakir - WR, drafted 2022 (average WR probably paid too much for him 5yr $56M)

 Christian Benford - CB, drafted 2022 (probably paid him market value 6yr $69M)

 Greg Rousseau - DE, drafted 2021 (overpaid for a 5 sack a year guy who never got better, 4yr $80M)

 Terrel Bernard - LB, drafted 2022 (overpaid, 4yr $42M)

 

IMO only 2 of these contracts make sense (Allen, Cook); I can live with 2 (Shakir, Benford); and two I could have done without and used that money somewhere else (Rousseau, Bernard).  Bernard is small and gets washed out of a lot run plays, Shaq Thompson makes our Defense way better for only 1.25 million this year.  He is bigger stronger and better against the run which forces team to play into our strengths (pass defense).  Maybe Bernard will be better in the Malino role but Bernard is hurt a lot also just like Milano.  Rousseau is getting paid an average of 20M a year and Bosa is getting paid 12.6M this year and has already proven to be a way better pass rusher then Greg.  Greg is in his fifth year and has played in 74 games and has 28 career sacks (not cutting it).  For example, Jaelan Phillips drafted right before Greg played in 59 career games and has 27 career sacks.  You don't sign a guy because you like him you sign him because he is a good football player.  We need to get back to that.    

 

3. Bringing back dead weight over and over again.

  Retreads 

  Philips, Lawson, White, Davis, Jackson, Poyer, Spector, Broeker (all dead weight if you ask me) when we had guys like Tim Settle (DT Texans now), Puna Ford (DT Seahawks now) both did nothing in Buffalo after signing free agent contracts never got a chance if you ask me and are now killing it with their new organizations.  

 

4. McD hiring from within all the time instead of going outside the organization.

  Coach McD always hires from within (Brady and Badich) IMO we were better with Daboll and Frazier on the staff running their respective units.  It makes me wonder why Daboll and McD had a rocky relationship, and Frazier was fired.  I believe McD was responsible for the whole 13 seconds debacle when he played the analytics instead of going with his gut and kicking it inbounds.  I want to believe that Frazier was telling him to kick it in bounds to kill some time and when McD's plan backfired he fired Frazier.  When Frazier was running the D the opposing team always seemed to have a good opening drive but then Frazier made adjustments, with Badich running the D the opposing team has a good first half and some of the games get away from us, but after the half when the game is already lost he makes adjustments).  For example the Atlanta game right before the half with under 2 minutes the Falcons drove right down the field to get into FG range which was almost a TD, and the Texans game right after the Bills scored to get some momentum the Texans went right down the field and scored a TD right before the half. both unacceptable.  

 

5. What is up with all these injuries, I know it happens around the league but dam.

 Our training staff sucks, or our coaches are being over-protective.  

 

6. What happened to the players being the best version of themselves (remember when JA17 first got here and that was one of the things that lured people in).  Now it feels like it is not that anymore and it is do what I say and like it and smile.  No top end WR free agent is going to want to come here to run block all the time because that is not what they want to do.  They want the ball to make plays not to block.  

So how come you didn’t go back in time and let Beane know all of this stuff? It’s real easy to call these bad moves when you have hindsight.

 

Also, there was a thread probably over 100 pages long of people who didn’t want the Bills to sign Cook, trade him for a bag of footballs, just release him because he’s not worth the headache, etc. Were you in that thread saying “no guys, I guarantee he’s going to rush for 1600 yards this season and become a top 2 back in the league!” 

[Walking Tall]

If they are “great” as the OP states, you keep them as long as possible.

 

That debate will continue.

[wagne591]

1 hour ago, Kaenon said:

I hope you feel better after typing that all up!

I do thank you.  It is frustrating and I can't talk about this stuff with my wife because she has no clue!!

 

39 minutes ago, Tanoros said:

I appreciate the detail you put into this, and honestly, I agree with several of the broader concerns, especially around the direction of Beane’s roster-building in recent years. But I think a few key areas need more context.

 

Rousseau, for example, gets criticized heavily for sack totals, but he is one of the best run defenders and edge setters in the league. That’s not a small thing. He plays a different role than a pure pass rusher like Jaelan Phillips. And Phillips, for all of his talent, has a long injury history, which you also point out as a negative for other players. It’s tough to have it both ways. Rousseau may not be elite at one thing, but he provides consistent, high-volume, high-floor defensive play that fits how this defense operates. But yes, we do need an elite pass rusher and Beane has tried his Von, who looked good until he was injured, and again with Bosa who has looked great. 

 

As for the receiver contracts, I completely agree with you on overpaying free agent WRs. That’s exactly why teams with sustained success focus on drafting and developing receivers. If you lose them later, you get compensatory picks. If they hit, you get cheap production. This is probably one of the biggest areas where Beane drifted off course: too much emphasis on the defensive line and not enough investment in young receiver talent.

 

Where I’d push back a bit is on the “dead weight” comment.

Most of those players, Lawson, Jackson, Broeker, Spector, and others, are inexpensive depth pieces who know the system and can fill emergency roles when injuries hit. Every good team does this. It’s not poor roster building; it’s practical roster management. And in many cases, those signings actually help. Poyer this year is a clear example.

 

I also fully agree with you about hiring from outside the organization.

Promoting Brady and Babich made sense at the time, but the Bills are at the point where bringing in top external coaching talent should be a priority. This staff could benefit from fresh voices and new ideas, especially on offense.

 

Regarding Frazier, though, none of us really know what happened. A lot of theories get repeated as if they’re fact, but unless someone was in the building, it’s all speculation. The same goes for the 13 seconds situation and whether McDermott overruled anything. Without details, it’s tough to draw clear conclusions.

 

On injuries, I’m not sure it’s a training staff issue.

The team has just been hit extremely hard the past few years with freak injuries, Achilles tears, pec tears, fractures, and so on. Losing Hoecht and Oliver alone dramatically changes the defense. Add in Milano, Phillips, Benford, and others, and it becomes clear that some of this is simply bad luck.

 

Overall, I do agree with your main point: the early part of Beane’s tenure was strong, and the recent years have been more uneven. But I think the picture is more nuanced. There have been misses, but also strengths, and some issues (like injuries and scheme-specific roles) get placed solely on him even when they’re not entirely within his control.

 

In my view, Beane built a high-floor team that consistently competes, but the roster has plateaued in part because he hasn’t hit enough home runs at premium positions like WR and EDGE in recent drafts. That, more than anything, is where the criticism is fair.

 

I genuinely respect the thought you put into your post. I just think the truth sits somewhere between “Beane is elite” and “Beane should be fired,” and the real conversation is about recalibrating the approach going forward, not erasing what has worked.

Thank you for the thoughtful reply.  I am on the fire Beane and McD train and have been for a while.  We have an all-world QB and are not giving him anything to work with.  We should be drafting a WR in rounds 1-3 every year until we hit on a #1 not drafting one in round 5 - 7 like they do.  Those WR should be a luxury kind of like Elam and Benford were (Elam was the #1 didn't work out and Benford was a 6th round pick in the same year where they hit on).  

 

I get the injuries but what happened to next man up.  Why don't we have someone else running Kincaid's routes since he has been hurt what about Knox.  I feel like we have pieces here that we aren't using properly or getting the most out of them.  I know people are down on Coleman but why can't he play the big slot like Kincaid does or Shavers (who can block just as good as Kincaid and can run routes) and put Coleman on the outside.  Coleman is more of a slot receiver anyway.  Line him up inside lets go four wide with Shavers and Cooke (now) and Shakir and Coleman the two slot spots.  Coleman can't separate from a DB too good but he can from a LB.   

 

This roster isn't a super bowl roster but we also aren't getting the most out of our players either IMO.  

[Steve Billieve]

Imagine being so dumb you keep extending Josh so his contract is always 5+ years out. And that useless slug Dawkins, all he's good for is racing cars and now I hear he's injured.

 

When will this franchise learn that the salary cap is REAL !! SMH 😤

[wagne591]

9 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

I think a lot of things are missed here but i do like reading things like this that aren't fully rooted in a bias. 

 

1 - I don't disagree.  We barely wade into the FA pool here so you tend to want to see some impact before some splash.  Injuries are going to happen to players though.  

 

2 - 

• Shakir's contract was about the same in AAV as the deal gabe davis and darnell mooney signed in 2024.  I think his value there is appropriate and will probably age pretty well.  
• Benford's contract was the 8th highest AAV of deals signed just in 2025.  I think he's somewhere around 18 or 19th total.  To me that reads fair market value, and will probably age well.  
• Rousseau is overpaid, but it doesn't mean he's a bad player either.  It's also not really an egregious overpay either.  You mention bosa as getting more pass rush for the money, but he's also caused a lot of issues defensively with his poor gap integrity against the run.  
• Bernard is a captain so there's a little bit of an overpay.  There's like 7 off ball linebackers with ~10M AAV, so it's not like he's jumping off the page.  He missed camp with a hamstring, re-aggravated an ankle injury, and now he screwed up his elbow on a weird tackle.  He's likely here through 2027 unless he's traded.  Dre greenlaw got the same 10M coming off a playoff achilles injury 

3 - Other than White, all of these are mid-season injury replacements for Carter (DT5), Jackson (DE5), Palmer (WR2), Rapp (FS), Bernard (LB5).  The options are either players who have never practiced here, and don't necessarily represent upgrades, or bring in players you've seen play quite a bit.  Devil you know (they are old or not good), vs. devil you don't.  

 

4 - Frazier was the DC during that bengals debacle.  That alone was pretty much a fireable offense.  You promote from within because it empowers young coaches to feel they have the ability to earn promotions.  Brady was brought in as an heir-apparent, and stepped in and settled down that hot/cold dorsey offense down the stretch.  Babich was interviewing with other teams for their coordinator position, and has a family pedigree of coaching. 

 

5 - I think there's reason to be critical of the strength and conditioning staff, seems like the team has torn pecs/biceps, pulled hamstrings/quads/groins quite frequently.  There have been a number of practice injuries this year which is concerning.  At the same time, the tackling was so bad to start the year that you HAD to improve the practice intensity.  Seemed like that coincided with more soft tissue injuries.  

 

6 - I think there's still and will always be a buffalo effect here.  There are a number of players... who do not want to play here.  The weather alone to me always will deter a lot of people.  Factor in night life and stuff and its not always a place people want to live.  As for WRs having to block?  Yeah, thats going to be important for any team that plays in the rust belt.  It's a mistake to NOT have that be a large part of your identity.  You WANT to play football in december and january at home, and that means wind/snow/cold that tends to favor a running football team.  

 

I want to be clear, you are not WRONG in your criticism of Beane.  I think there's more than enough reasons to be, but there's nuance and context.  "Go out and get a WR" doesn't really work when the available trade options aren't good.  Trading for holdouts like Samuel, Mclaurin, or Metcalf were not looking to be smart moves - and none of them really worked out for their team this year.  Davante has been solid this year, but with that contract you probably don't get Bosa.  Also not really sure he was interested in coming here so its speculative.  

 

Good Read!!!

 

I can stand with you on the contracts but Benard not so much.  He is not built to be an NFL inside line backer and gets pushed around too much (i.e. Ravens game). 

 

I know Frazier was the DC during the Bengals debacle but players have also said at the time they were spent, emotionally because of Damar, and all the weather delays and what not.  So I would give the whole team a pass on that.  It would have been cool if they won but that is a lot for a team to go through.  

 

I am ok with not trading for a WR but we need to draft more period.  And not in the 5-7th round we should be drafting one WR in rounds 1-3 every year here on out until JA17 retires.  Maybe even 2 this year alone.  I am ok with that.  

 

At this pace JA17 will take over Dan Marino's spot as the best QB ever to not win a dam thing....and IMO JA17 is that right now.  

[BillsShredder83]

1 hour ago, wagne591 said:

I for one thought Beane was doing a good job in the beginning of his tenure but not so much as of late.  Here is my list of why Beane screwed up and why both he and McD need to go.

1.  Both are great coaches/GM but as time goes by so does your window of opportunity.  As McD said after the Texans game about this roster, he said that while he “loves these players,” he admitted the team doesn’t have what he considers a “super-Bowl-caliber” roster. That is on Beane and paying all the wrong players. I mean look at the guys he signed this year alone:

 Bosa DE (was killing it but we all knew he would get hurt eventually and miss some games, which he is at the most crucial part of our schedule)

 Palmer WR (signed a three year deal and was the forth/fifth receiver with the chargers so far he has played 8 games and has 18 catches for 272 yards 0 TDs)

 Hoecht DE great signing for the game and a half he played was impressed but was suspended the first six games played a little in Carolina and was killing it against KC then got hurt and is out for the season.

  Ogunjobi DT suspended first six games now playing but probably our worst DT on the roster. 

 

Honorable mention Curtis Samuels last year 14 games (only started 2) for 31 catches 253 yards 1 TD; 2025 6 games 0 starts 7 catches 81 yards 1 TD.  and we gave that guy $24M for 3 years.  

  

2.  Signing the guys he drafted instead of signing players that will help.  

Here is a list of players Beane Drafted then signed to big contracts:

 Josh Allen - Franchise QB drafted 2018 (best move Beane ever did)

 James Cook - RB drafted 2022 (great move but almost lost him to free agency because Beane didn't want to pay him)

 Khalil Shakir - WR, drafted 2022 (average WR probably paid too much for him 5yr $56M)

 Christian Benford - CB, drafted 2022 (probably paid him market value 6yr $69M)

 Greg Rousseau - DE, drafted 2021 (overpaid for a 5 sack a year guy who never got better, 4yr $80M)

 Terrel Bernard - LB, drafted 2022 (overpaid, 4yr $42M)

 

IMO only 2 of these contracts make sense (Allen, Cook); I can live with 2 (Shakir, Benford); and two I could have done without and used that money somewhere else (Rousseau, Bernard).  Bernard is small and gets washed out of a lot run plays, Shaq Thompson makes our Defense way better for only 1.25 million this year.  He is bigger stronger and better against the run which forces team to play into our strengths (pass defense).  Maybe Bernard will be better in the Malino role but Bernard is hurt a lot also just like Milano.  Rousseau is getting paid an average of 20M a year and Bosa is getting paid 12.6M this year and has already proven to be a way better pass rusher then Greg.  Greg is in his fifth year and has played in 74 games and has 28 career sacks (not cutting it).  For example, Jaelan Phillips drafted right before Greg played in 59 career games and has 27 career sacks.  You don't sign a guy because you like him you sign him because he is a good football player.  We need to get back to that.    

 

3. Bringing back dead weight over and over again.

  Retreads 

  Philips, Lawson, White, Davis, Jackson, Poyer, Spector, Broeker (all dead weight if you ask me) when we had guys like Tim Settle (DT Texans now), Puna Ford (DT Seahawks now) both did nothing in Buffalo after signing free agent contracts never got a chance if you ask me and are now killing it with their new organizations.  

 

4. McD hiring from within all the time instead of going outside the organization.

  Coach McD always hires from within (Brady and Badich) IMO we were better with Daboll and Frazier on the staff running their respective units.  It makes me wonder why Daboll and McD had a rocky relationship, and Frazier was fired.  I believe McD was responsible for the whole 13 seconds debacle when he played the analytics instead of going with his gut and kicking it inbounds.  I want to believe that Frazier was telling him to kick it in bounds to kill some time and when McD's plan backfired he fired Frazier.  When Frazier was running the D the opposing team always seemed to have a good opening drive but then Frazier made adjustments, with Badich running the D the opposing team has a good first half and some of the games get away from us, but after the half when the game is already lost he makes adjustments).  For example the Atlanta game right before the half with under 2 minutes the Falcons drove right down the field to get into FG range which was almost a TD, and the Texans game right after the Bills scored to get some momentum the Texans went right down the field and scored a TD right before the half. both unacceptable.  

 

5. What is up with all these injuries, I know it happens around the league but dam.

 Our training staff sucks, or our coaches are being over-protective.  

 

6. What happened to the players being the best version of themselves (remember when JA17 first got here and that was one of the things that lured people in).  Now it feels like it is not that anymore and it is do what I say and like it and smile.  No top end WR free agent is going to want to come here to run block all the time because that is not what they want to do.  They want the ball to make plays not to block.  

Wild you had the right premise and flopped on execution lol

 

Bosa? Been an amazing signing at what we paid him. Crazy pills to suggest otherwise. Low-medium risk/high reward. Could easily see this deal not working out 6 outta 10 times... weve been fortunate. Should we roll the dice again? Ehhhhh. Only way im doing it is a similar financial deal, but he hassssss to see the field less. Can't let him work horse again, no world does this years success repeat another 2 years at this workload.

 

Palmer - spot on 

 

Samuel - getting honorable mention is crazy lenient lol my god what an awful deal this has become. In Beanes defense a bit, it looked like a great signing. Injuries have been brutallllll but also have never used him right in the extremely limited amount of time hes been healthy. As bad as it gets here.

 

Hoecht - cant predict injury, although I can sympathize with the PED thing some (whole league is pushing the limit though). Also multi year deal, so wait and see there. Stoked to see him back next year.

 

Groot- yeah, rough one,was really hoping he hadnt reached ceiling, appears he has

 

Benford/Bernard: Benford was someone we couldn't let walk, and the type of injury (concussions) you should be ok taking a risk on imo.

 

Bernard- is a beast when healthy, but misses too many games. Hes touched it through entire season. Only reason he hasn't sat is everyone else being hurt. He 

 

[st pete gogolak]

43 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

It’s like giving the bag to Phil Hansen. 

Are you against paying Phil Hansen? I’m not. Sad day when he retired. Pretty much signaled end of an era.

[hondo in seattle]

2 hours ago, wagne591 said:

I for one thought Beane was doing a good job in the beginning of his tenure but not so much as of late.  Here is my list of why Beane screwed up and why both he and McD need to go.

1.  Both are great coaches/GM but as time goes by so does your window of opportunity.  As McD said after the Texans game about this roster, he said that while he “loves these players,” he admitted the team doesn’t have what he considers a “super-Bowl-caliber” roster. That is on Beane and paying all the wrong players. I mean look at the guys he signed this year alone:

 Bosa DE (was killing it but we all knew he would get hurt eventually and miss some games, which he is at the most crucial part of our schedule)

 Palmer WR (signed a three year deal and was the forth/fifth receiver with the chargers so far he has played 8 games and has 18 catches for 272 yards 0 TDs)

 Hoecht DE great signing for the game and a half he played was impressed but was suspended the first six games played a little in Carolina and was killing it against KC then got hurt and is out for the season.

  Ogunjobi DT suspended first six games now playing but probably our worst DT on the roster. 

 

Honorable mention Curtis Samuels last year 14 games (only started 2) for 31 catches 253 yards 1 TD; 2025 6 games 0 starts 7 catches 81 yards 1 TD.  and we gave that guy $24M for 3 years.  

  

2.  Signing the guys he drafted instead of signing players that will help.  

Here is a list of players Beane Drafted then signed to big contracts:

 Josh Allen - Franchise QB drafted 2018 (best move Beane ever did)

 James Cook - RB drafted 2022 (great move but almost lost him to free agency because Beane didn't want to pay him)

 Khalil Shakir - WR, drafted 2022 (average WR probably paid too much for him 5yr $56M)

 Christian Benford - CB, drafted 2022 (probably paid him market value 6yr $69M)

 Greg Rousseau - DE, drafted 2021 (overpaid for a 5 sack a year guy who never got better, 4yr $80M)

 Terrel Bernard - LB, drafted 2022 (overpaid, 4yr $42M)

 

IMO only 2 of these contracts make sense (Allen, Cook); I can live with 2 (Shakir, Benford); and two I could have done without and used that money somewhere else (Rousseau, Bernard).  Bernard is small and gets washed out of a lot run plays, Shaq Thompson makes our Defense way better for only 1.25 million this year.  He is bigger stronger and better against the run which forces team to play into our strengths (pass defense).  Maybe Bernard will be better in the Malino role but Bernard is hurt a lot also just like Milano.  Rousseau is getting paid an average of 20M a year and Bosa is getting paid 12.6M this year and has already proven to be a way better pass rusher then Greg.  Greg is in his fifth year and has played in 74 games and has 28 career sacks (not cutting it).  For example, Jaelan Phillips drafted right before Greg played in 59 career games and has 27 career sacks.  You don't sign a guy because you like him you sign him because he is a good football player.  We need to get back to that.    

 

3. Bringing back dead weight over and over again.

  Retreads 

  Philips, Lawson, White, Davis, Jackson, Poyer, Spector, Broeker (all dead weight if you ask me) when we had guys like Tim Settle (DT Texans now), Puna Ford (DT Seahawks now) both did nothing in Buffalo after signing free agent contracts never got a chance if you ask me and are now killing it with their new organizations.  

 

4. McD hiring from within all the time instead of going outside the organization.

  Coach McD always hires from within (Brady and Badich) IMO we were better with Daboll and Frazier on the staff running their respective units.  It makes me wonder why Daboll and McD had a rocky relationship, and Frazier was fired.  I believe McD was responsible for the whole 13 seconds debacle when he played the analytics instead of going with his gut and kicking it inbounds.  I want to believe that Frazier was telling him to kick it in bounds to kill some time and when McD's plan backfired he fired Frazier.  When Frazier was running the D the opposing team always seemed to have a good opening drive but then Frazier made adjustments, with Badich running the D the opposing team has a good first half and some of the games get away from us, but after the half when the game is already lost he makes adjustments).  For example the Atlanta game right before the half with under 2 minutes the Falcons drove right down the field to get into FG range which was almost a TD, and the Texans game right after the Bills scored to get some momentum the Texans went right down the field and scored a TD right before the half. both unacceptable.  

 

5. What is up with all these injuries, I know it happens around the league but dam.

 Our training staff sucks, or our coaches are being over-protective.  

 

6. What happened to the players being the best version of themselves (remember when JA17 first got here and that was one of the things that lured people in).  Now it feels like it is not that anymore and it is do what I say and like it and smile.  No top end WR free agent is going to want to come here to run block all the time because that is not what they want to do.  They want the ball to make plays not to block.  

 

I don't agree with every detail, but I do agree with the general point:  Beane's drafts, FA evaluations, and cap management have been problematic.  The fact we don't have a SB quality roster falls squarely on his shoulders.  Then again, so does the fact we have Josh Allen who makes us instantly competitive.  

 

This isn't a popular opinion, but I've long thought that the reason the Bills keep going to the playoffs is because of McD (a good, not great, coach) and Josh.  The rest of the team is a random mix of good and not-so-good players. 

 

The reason we keep bowing out in the playoffs before the SB is that both the coaching staff and roster, overall, just aren't good enough.  McD doesn't have elite coordinators - his fault.  And McD doesn't have an elite roster - Beane's fault.  Between the two, I think Beane is more to 'blame' than McD.