Bear Front

[Chief Loves Bills]

Bear with me here. I’m no expert, so I’m looking for feedback from those who are…

 

I was listening to the NFL channel on Sirius this morning and a conversation came up regarding running against the Bear Front: a nose, two DTs, and two DEs. They said it was nearly impossible to run against and normally offenses will check to a pass to get around it. Their example was the Pat’s Bear Front call in the Seahawks Super Bowl. Marshawn was never going to run on the end zone play because it was a Bear Front and the Pats knew the Seahawks would check to the slant. Good coaching.

 

I make no claim we have the personnel to run this call often, or we should base our defense around it, but have any of you seen that type of front called this year from us? Have we mixed it in to stop the bleeding in some of our worse performances? I heard we ran some 3-4 stuff to try. Would it even work with our guys?

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Essentially you'd replace a coverage guy (Taron) with an extra DL. The only time you might be safe to run this is goal line situations because they are so condensed.

 

It was reported VS the Bucks, when the Bills defended the run with 3 LBers, they actually held up pretty well.

[harmonkillebrew]

The cat has been out of the bag for weeks - the Bills can't stop the run.

Yet, we continue to trot out a base nickel. Even when we go 3 LBs, we aren't that effective. Most of that seems to be personnel

But maybe we should mix in more of the Bear Front. I feel like I saw some three DT packages against the Bucs

5 DL would mean 2 LBs, 2 S, and 2 CBs...? Not crazy. Basically sub out Taron for a DT, as opposed to a third LB.  

Ideally one of the DEs like Epenesa could drop back and defend a short zone as needed

[bills_fan]

We ran that in HS.  Called it the 5-2.  Also had a S come up  often against running teams.  It was pretty effective because everything gets clogged up.  Gotta have CBs to to stay w the WR tho.  Doesn't really work well if you play zone in the secondary. Lots of open space back there.

Edited 3 hours ago by bills_fan

[gonzo1105]

It’s an outdated system that worked years ago because teams were predominately in 21 personnel. Very rarely do you see teams in that personnel package anymore. 
 

In addition when the Bear front was successful the vast majority of the teams had statues of Quarterbacks and even the mobile ones aren’t like the ones you see today. This meant the likelihood of them getting past the Bear front and running was minimal. 
 

The best and really only time to use it is in Hoskins situations but typically teams have gameplan specific goaline personnel packages based on talent now. 
 

The only other time you could possibly run it is in 6 OL packages where you know it’s unlikely the eligible lineman is going out for a pass. 12 and 13 personnel maybe as well but new age TEs would carve that up 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

7 minutes ago, harmonkillebrew said:

The cat has been out of the bag for weeks - the Bills can't stop the run.

Yet, we continue to trot out a base nickel. Even when we go 3 LBs, we aren't that effective. Most of that seems to be personnel

But maybe we should mix in more of the Bear Front. I feel like I saw some three DT packages against the Bucs

5 DL would mean 2 LBs, 2 S, and 2 CBs...? Not crazy. Basically sub out Taron for a DT, as opposed to a third LB.  

Ideally one of the DEs like Epenesa could drop back and defend a short zone as needed

 

Going heavy with a single high safety has usually been where buffalo gets gashed for huge runs

[nosejob]

6 minutes ago, bills_fan said:

We ran that in HS.  Called it the 5-2.  Also had a S come up  often against running teams.  It was pretty effective because everything gets clogged up.  Gotta have CBs to to stay w the WR tho.  Doesn't really work well if you play zone in the secondary. Lots of open space back there.

A 5-2-4 with Shaq as a coverage LB is the best thing for our Defense. With better corner and improved safety play, we could get very good at it. Hopefully Fox looks like Hoecht, but there are other stunt combos we can use. I hope they embrace it rather than the hard headed rush 4 crap.

[Big Turk]

I think the Bills plan is to get them in 3rd and long by getting backfield penetration and then tee off in the pash rush.  They are willing to give up some in the run game to not get gashed on deep balls but right now they are giving up too much...mostly due to bad fills, bad angles and missed tackles near the LOS

 

The Bills are weird because while they get gashed in the run game too often, they also are among the league leaders in TFLs, so they actually DO stuff a good number of runs in a given game.

 

The issue is, too often they then allow conversions in those situations and then get gashed with a house call run...

 

Perfect example is Bucs in 3rd and 12 due to some good D, they convert on the play and then Tucker runs 44 yards for a TD on the next play.

 

They simply need to be a little better at getting off the field on 3rd down. They are better than last year when they were near the bottom of the NFL, I think they are 18th this year so around average, but improving that would go a long way toward improving the overall D.

 

Pass D has gotten much better since Poyer and Hairston have gotten in there and Bishop is taking a step...

 

Now we just need to do better and get off the field on 3rd down more often and I think you'd see a lot of the problems mitigated.

Edited 3 hours ago by Big Turk

[Psautcsk]

26 minutes ago, nosejob said:

A 5-2-4 with Shaq as a coverage LB is the best thing for our Defense. With better corner and improved safety play, we could get very good at it. Hopefully Fox looks like Hoecht, but there are other stunt combos we can use. I hope they embrace it rather than the hard headed rush 4 crap.

I am hoping Fox plays tomorrow

[transient]

43 minutes ago, harmonkillebrew said:

The cat has been out of the bag for weeks - the Bills can't stop the run.

Yet, we continue to trot out a base nickel. Even when we go 3 LBs, we aren't that effective. Most of that seems to be personnel

But maybe we should mix in more of the Bear Front. I feel like I saw some three DT packages against the Bucs

5 DL would mean 2 LBs, 2 S, and 2 CBs...? Not crazy. Basically sub out Taron for a DT, as opposed to a third LB.  

Ideally one of the DEs like Epenesa could drop back and defend a short zone as needed

Weeks?!?! Where have YOU been for the past 3-4 seasons? This is not a new problem in 2025. 

[BigAl2526]

58 minutes ago, Chief Loves Bills said:

Bear with me here. I’m no expert, so I’m looking for feedback from those who are…

 

I was listening to the NFL channel on Sirius this morning and a conversation came up regarding running against the Bear Front: a nose, two DTs, and two DEs. They said it was nearly impossible to run against and normally offenses will check to a pass to get around it. Their example was the Pat’s Bear Front call in the Seahawks Super Bowl. Marshawn was never going to run on the end zone play because it was a Bear Front and the Pats knew the Seahawks would check to the slant. Good coaching.

 

I make no claim we have the personnel to run this call often, or we should base our defense around it, but have any of you seen that type of front called this year from us? Have we mixed it in to stop the bleeding in some of our worse performances? I heard we ran some 3-4 stuff to try. Would it even work with our guys?

It doesn't sound a whole lot different from a 3-4 defensive front, except for terminology.  In a 3-4 alignment, you've got your DT/NT in the middle.  Your two defensive ends are the size of 4-3 defensive tackles, and your outside linebackers are the size of 4-3 defensive ends.  Yes, the outside linebackers are in a two-point stance at the snap and half a step off the line, but otherwise not much difference.  Buffalo actually were stopping the inside runs of Tampa pretty well most of the time.  Tampa was killing them on the outside all game.  It's hard to see how the "bear defense" wouldn't continue to leave you vulnerable to outside runs.   

Edited 2 hours ago by BigAl2526

[harmonkillebrew]

1 hour ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Going heavy with a single high safety has usually been where buffalo gets gashed for huge runs

Not sure that's true.

Tucker's big run against us was in base nickel. Taron and Bernard ran into each other, Bosa couldn't hold the edge, Benford got consumed by a WR block, and Poyer took a bad angle and got leveled by a pulling G

[Rigotz]

It's effectively the "stop the run at all costs" formation... similar to Goal Line.

 

Since it takes one DB and arguably one LB off the field, if an offense has any talent in the intermediate/deep passing game, you get killed.

 

Similarly, I think this doesn't solve our issue of defensive linemen not playing with gap integrity. With 5 down linemen, you can still create holes if the DL doesn't stand firm, but with Bear, there are less 2nd level defenders to help after the initial push.

 

I guess it's an ok exotic look if you badly need a 1-2 yard stop and are expecting rush all the way, but there are way more negatives than positives as a base defense.

[HOUSE]

I am no expert either but I believe  the term is used in reference to 3 big naked guys stacking the line

[transient]

7 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

I am no expert either but I believe  the term is used in reference to 3 big naked guys stacking the line

That’s the “bare” formation. 

[Big Turk]

Also Bills are ranked 12th in Defense in terms of YPG and 15th in terms of PPG.

 

So actually above average. I think this "terrible defense" shtick has run a little too far.

 

Yes, they have been bad against the run, but their overall results have not been bad. They have been slightly above average overall in comparison to the rest of the NFL.

[GunnerBill]

37 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

I am no expert either but I believe  the term is used in reference to 3 big naked guys stacking the line

 

Sounds like a party I've been to....

[Royale with Cheese]

10 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Also Bills are ranked 12th in Defense in terms of YPG and 15th in terms of PPG.

 

So actually above average. I think this "terrible defense" shtick has run a little too far.

 

Yes, they have been bad against the run, but their overall results have not been bad. They have been slightly above average overall in comparison to the rest of the NFL.

 

The 3rd down defense is the one I worry about the most.

[RobbRiddick]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Sounds like a party I've been to....

I have no idea who the other 2 were

[Royale with Cheese]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Sounds like a party I've been to....

 

I have a feeling you think Buffalo Joe is a hottie.