A Few Thoughts about the Panthers Game - Community Edition

[Virgil]

Full Disclaimer:  My daughter's soccer coach decided to be a full blown ####### and schedule a soccer game for 2p yesterday, so I had to watch the entire game from my phone.  I saw the entire game, but it wasn't the normal experience and I didn't have audio at times, so please give me a little grace here.

 

1 - Attitude - Outside of our passing game, the attitude of this team so far this season has been my biggest concern.  We've started games slow, looked lethargic, and Josh has not looked like himself at all.  I'm happy to say that at least one of these issues was addressed in this game.  On the Bills first defensive series, McD looked like he was ready to fight someone on the sidelines and you could see that manifest in the defense.  The defense set the tone early with Groot's strip fumble and were relentless all game.  Attitude and coming off the bye week may have been part of it, while so many new players taking the field may have been the other part.  Either way, McD's arrow is point up after this game as you can tell he had the defense ready to play. 

 

2 - Passing Game - At this point, I don't know if I should be calling out Brady or Allen.  I've never seen Allen play this poorly for so many games since his rookie season.  I'm not an All-22 film study person, but I wish I was right now.  Josh didn't complete a pass beyond the line of scrimmage in the first quarter and his accuracy was off.  Not only that, but you could see it on his face that he's just not mentally there right now.  Is it because guys aren't getting open?  Is it because we are only calling conservative plays that keep the defense off the field?  Or is it a little bit of both?  Either way, the passing game we've almost taken for granted over the past few years is really struggling and we aren't going anywhere until we figure it out.

 

3 - Cook - I mean, what more can you say about him at this point?  I'd argue Cook is owed the second biggest apology on this board about his contract since we drafted the wrong Josh.  Not only did he break 200 yards, he looked like a pro playing against high school players.   He literally pulled a Techno Bowl move on his 64 yard touchdown pass by taking the longest possible route to the endzone, looked back for followers, and flipped in just for fun.  Seriously, that might be the most dominant rushing effort I can remember seeing from start to finish by a player in a Bills uniform.

 

4 - Offensive line - While we still can't seem to pick up a stunt (which is going to be really bad again the Chiefs next week), the line and Hawes were absolutely dominant in rush protection.  The fact that Cook's 64 yard run was up the middle and he got within 5 yards of almost every defender, and STILL was not even touched....wow.  Just wow.

 

5 - Shakir - Was that touchdown catch and run the fastest we've ever seen him run?  Like Cook's TD, Shakir was toying with his defender and found an extra gear.  We still need to get Kincaid healthy, but it does feel like Shakir and Kincaid are very close to completing our puzzle in the passing attack.  Get us a border receiver and start making some throws to Cook, and I will feel a lot better. 

 

6 - Oliver - I was frustrated with Oliver's injury for about two seconds, before laughing it off.  I mean seriously, do he just skip arms and torso day in the weight room on this team?  How many bicep and pec issues can we have?  At the point, I just can't expect some of these guys to stay healthy.  But unlike other weeks where the injuries piled on, it was amazing to see so many other players step up and watch the defense get arguably more dominant as the game went on.

 

7 - Hairston - I don't think I realized how much I needed to see Hairston make that tackle on the swing pass until it happened.  That was an absolute hit for a guy that had questions about his size and tackling ability.  He didn't just tackle the guy, he came in at him like missile.  If that's a sign of things to come, our secondary just go a whole lot better. 

 

8 - Bishop and Hancock? - Am I crazy or is that the best duo unit we've seen at safety so far this season?  I'm not dumping on Poyer, but Hancock flashed some speed out there.  Catching Dowdle from twenty yards away to save a touchdown is no easy feat.  Maybe it was the pressure up front too, but the safety play seemed to be more relaxed and confident out there.

 

9 - Linebackers - Anyone else pleasantly surprised that we held the Panthers rushing attack in check with Thompson, Buffalo Joe, and Williams?  For what could have been a huge liability, those guys held their own.  

 

10 - Defensive Line - Yes, it was Dalton back there and I don't want to get ahead of ourselves. But man, this is what we've been waiting for with our pass rush.  They were absolute disruptors out there and made life easier for everyone else on defense.  To me, this wasn't scheme either.  This was straight up bulldozing guys into Dalton.  Hoecht was a man possessed, Walker continues to be a rock star, AJ decided to play for once in a great way, and Ogunjobi joined the party.  Hell, Bosa snuck in two sacks on the day.  I'm not going to put a lot of stock into next weeks game against the Chiefs, but I'm very curious to see what these guys do next week.

 

 

As for the Chiefs, there is one thing I am hoping to see, and that is Josh waking up from his coma.  The Chiefs in the regular season appear to be Josh's 7 iron.  They find a way to bring out the best in him.  Win or lose, if Josh can get back on track and the defense continues with this momentum, maybe things won't be as bad as they've felt.

 

Go Bills!

[appoo]

7 minutes ago, Virgil said:

2 - Passing Game - At this point, I don't know if I should be calling out Brady or Allen.  I've never seen Allen play this poorly for so many games since his rookie season.  I'm not an All-22 film study person, but I wish I was right now.  Josh didn't complete a pass beyond the line of scrimmage in the first quarter and his accuracy was off.  Not only that, but you could see it on his face that he's just not mentally there right now.  Is it because guys aren't getting open?  Is it because we are only calling conservative plays that keep the defense off the field?  Or is it a little bit of both?  Either way, the passing game we've almost taken for granted over the past few years is really struggling and we aren't going anywhere until we figure it out.

 

He and Brady have lost faith in our WRs without Palmer IMO. Hence a more horizontal and quick passing game. Rather than testing CBs deeper and asking our WRs to make contested catches.  

 

This isn't what you'd think Brady wants. He's from the lineage of Sean Peyton, and you saw the scheme they had at LSU when they had talent. This man wants to go intermediate, go deep. He doesn't want to rock fight his way to wins. I actually think I'm fairly complimentary of him at this point, for swallowing his pride, and committing to the rock fight, that fits the talent he's got. 

[DeepPass]

13 minutes ago, Virgil said:

Full Disclaimer:  My daughter's soccer coach decided to be a full blown ####### and schedule a soccer game for 2p yesterday, so I had to watch the entire game from my phone.  I saw the entire game, but it wasn't the normal experience and I didn't have audio at times, so please give me a little grace here.

 

1 - Attitude - Outside of our passing game, the attitude of this team so far this season has been my biggest concern.  We've started games slow, looked lethargic, and Josh has not looked like himself at all.  I'm happy to say that at least one of these issues was addressed in this game.  On the Bills first defensive series, McD looked like he was ready to fight someone on the sidelines and you could see that manifest in the defense.  The defense set the tone early with Groot's strip fumble and were relentless all game.  Attitude and coming off the bye week may have been part of it, while so many new players taking the field may have been the other part.  Either way, McD's arrow is point up after this game as you can tell he had the defense ready to play. 

 

2 - Passing Game - At this point, I don't know if I should be calling out Brady or Allen.  I've never seen Allen play this poorly for so many games since his rookie season.  I'm not an All-22 film study person, but I wish I was right now.  Josh didn't complete a pass beyond the line of scrimmage in the first quarter and his accuracy was off.  Not only that, but you could see it on his face that he's just not mentally there right now.  Is it because guys aren't getting open?  Is it because we are only calling conservative plays that keep the defense off the field?  Or is it a little bit of both?  Either way, the passing game we've almost taken for granted over the past few years is really struggling and we aren't going anywhere until we figure it out.

 

3 - Cook - I mean, what more can you say about him at this point?  I'd argue Cook is owed the second biggest apology on this board about his contract since we drafted the wrong Josh.  Not only did he break 200 yards, he looked like a pro playing against high school players.   He literally pulled a Techno Bowl move on his 64 yard touchdown pass by taking the longest possible route to the endzone, looked back for followers, and flipped in just for fun.  Seriously, that might be the most dominant rushing effort I can remember seeing from start to finish by a player in a Bills uniform.

 

4 - Offensive line - While we still can't seem to pick up a stunt (which is going to be really bad again the Chiefs next week), the line and Hawes were absolutely dominant in rush protection.  The fact that Cook's 64 yard run was up the middle and he got within 5 yards of almost every defender, and STILL was not even touched....wow.  Just wow.

 

5 - Shakir - Was that touchdown catch and run the fastest we've ever seen him run?  Like Cook's TD, Shakir was toying with his defender and found an extra gear.  We still need to get Kincaid healthy, but it does feel like Shakir and Kincaid are very close to completing our puzzle in the passing attack.  Get us a border receiver and start making some throws to Cook, and I will feel a lot better. 

 

6 - Oliver - I was frustrated with Oliver's injury for about two seconds, before laughing it off.  I mean seriously, do he just skip arms and torso day in the weight room on this team?  How many bicep and pec issues can we have?  At the point, I just can't expect some of these guys to stay healthy.  But unlike other weeks where the injuries piled on, it was amazing to see so many other players step up and watch the defense get arguably more dominant as the game went on.

 

7 - Hairston - I don't think I realized how much I needed to see Hairston make that tackle on the swing pass until it happened.  That was an absolute hit for a guy that had questions about his size and tackling ability.  He didn't just tackle the guy, he came in at him like missile.  If that's a sign of things to come, our secondary just go a whole lot better. 

 

8 - Bishop and Hancock? - Am I crazy or is that the best duo unit we've seen at safety so far this season?  I'm not dumping on Poyer, but Hancock flashed some speed out there.  Catching Dowdle from twenty yards away to save a touchdown is no easy feat.  Maybe it was the pressure up front too, but the safety play seemed to be more relaxed and confident out there.

 

9 - Linebackers - Anyone else pleasantly surprised that we held the Panthers rushing attack in check with Thompson, Buffalo Joe, and Williams?  For what could have been a huge liability, those guys held their own.  

 

10 - Defensive Line - Yes, it was Dalton back there and I don't want to get ahead of ourselves. But man, this is what we've been waiting for with our pass rush.  They were absolute disruptors out there and made life easier for everyone else on defense.  To me, this wasn't scheme either.  This was straight up bulldozing guys into Dalton.  Hoecht was a man possessed, Walker continues to be a rock star, AJ decided to play for once in a great way, and Ogunjobi joined the party.  Hell, Bosa snuck in two sacks on the day.  I'm not going to put a lot of stock into next weeks game against the Chiefs, but I'm very curious to see what these guys do next week.

 

 

As for the Chiefs, there is one thing I am hoping to see, and that is Josh waking up from his coma.  The Chiefs in the regular season appear to be Josh's 7 iron.  They find a way to bring out the best in him.  Win or lose, if Josh can get back on track and the defense continues with this momentum, maybe things won't be as bad as they've felt.

 

Go Bills!

Is it possible Josh is having some problems with his long-distance marriage?  She's always traveling for her career and private social events.  Josh seems to be a guy that likes a good HOME life where he can relax.  Being alone while married is  a rough road!

[Virgil]

Just now, DeepPass said:

Is it possible Josh is having some problems with his long-distance marriage?  She's always traveling for her career and private social events.  Josh seems to be a guy that likes a good HOME life where he can relax.  Being alone while married is  a rough road!

 

I'm sorry, but I just can't get behind this.  Once the game starts, I feel like those types of things go out of your head.  Josh has always said the game starts for him the moment he is hit.  

[Big Turk]

I thought 1st half in the passing game Allen looked off. 2nd half, he looked much better and made several of his patented throws including a rollout to the left and throw a laser beam to Coleman coming across, a step up and thru the pocket running towards the LOS throw to find Hawes inside the 5, and even that throw to Shakir was textbook perfect ball placement because he essentially "told" Shakir to turn towards the sideline by where he put that ball on his outside shoulder because he saw the defender coming from the inside, and helped Shakir avoid him.

 

Small sample size since he was done early into the 4th, but I was much happier with what I saw from Allen in the 2nd half.

Edited 3 hours ago by Big Turk

[Steve O]

27 minutes ago, DeepPass said:

Is it possible Josh is having some problems with his long-distance marriage?  She's always traveling for her career and private social events.  Josh seems to be a guy that likes a good HOME life where he can relax.  Being alone while married is  a rough road!

Possible. You would think he would have plenty of low profile hot chicks to choose from rather than picking one that's on the road more than him. 

[Jerome007]

For point #10, I find it weird the Bills D have difficulty with good QB runners since least year... as they practice against Josh and Trubinski! In the past, the Bills D never even allowed Lamar to run against them - and well, healthy Milano was the main reason. Obviously, the D played great yesterday and Dalton ain't running around. We'll see next week! 

56 minutes ago, Virgil said:

I'm sorry, but I just can't get behind this.  Once the game starts, I feel like those types of things go out of your head.  Josh has always said the game starts for him the moment he is hit

Yesterday, it could have been Losman back there. I agree that it would feel boring for Josh if all games were like this, but come on, it won't always be this way. Perfect to maintain Josh in peak health. Josh didn't do anything special.. because he didn't have to! Hard to say he is off from yesterday...

[kitchen sink]

6 - Oliver - I was frustrated with Oliver's injury for about two seconds, before laughing it off.  I mean seriously, do he just skip arms and torso day in the weight room on this team?  How many bicep and pec issues can we have?  At the point, I just can't expect some of these guys to stay healthy.  But unlike other weeks where the injuries piled on, it was amazing to see so many other players step up and watch the defense get arguably more dominant as the game went on.

 

Thank you for your post, but based on the highlighted comment above, I have to ask if you have ever seriously lifted weights?

 

Lifting weights does not eliminate the risk of injury for a 280 pound man falling on his arm in an awkward position with another 300 pound man falling on top of him. 

 

Some would argue that it can actually increase the risk of injury due to reducing flexibility. 

[sunshynman]

5 minutes ago, kitchen sink said:

6 - Oliver - I was frustrated with Oliver's injury for about two seconds, before laughing it off.  I mean seriously, do he just skip arms and torso day in the weight room on this team?  How many bicep and pec issues can we have?  At the point, I just can't expect some of these guys to stay healthy.  But unlike other weeks where the injuries piled on, it was amazing to see so many other players step up and watch the defense get arguably more dominant as the game went on.

 

Thank you for your post, but based on the highlighted comment above, I have to ask if you have ever seriously lifted weights?

 

Lifting weights does not eliminate the risk of injury for a 280 pound man falling on his arm in an awkward position with another 300 pound man falling on top of him. 

 

Some would argue that it can actually increase the risk of injury due to reducing flexibility. 

He wasn’t hurt from being fell on. It was his arm was out trying to grab the RB and it was the awkward position that caused the injury. 
 

But to your point. Doesn’t matter how much you lift. The more flexible a muscle the less an injury like this happens. But sometimes the wrong angle is going to cause it no matter what. 

[T.E.]

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

I thought 1st half in the passing game Allen looked off. 2nd half, he looked much better and made several of his patented throws including a rollout to the left and throw a laser beam to Coleman coming across, a step up and thru the pocket running towards the LOS throw to find Hawes inside the 5, and even that throw to Shakir was textbook perfect ball placement because he essentially "told" Shakir to turn towards the sideline by where he put that ball on his outside shoulder because he saw the defender coming from the inside, and helped Shakir avoid him.

 

Small sample size since he was done early into the 4th, but I was much happier with what I saw from Allen in the 2nd half.

His passing in the second half seemed more purposeful. Quick decisions, not as much freelancing. I love seeing him whip one down the field on a rollout here and there, but for awhile it looked like a broken play on every passing down.

[The Frankish Reich]

2 hours ago, Virgil said:

My daughter's soccer coach decided to be a full blown ####### and schedule a soccer game for 2p yesterday, so I had to watch the entire game from my phone.  I saw the entire game

I hope you mean you saw the entire soccer game. No multitasking allowed! You should be busy yelling at the refs.

 

(Thanks for the report!)

[Virgil]

24 minutes ago, kitchen sink said:

6 - Oliver - I was frustrated with Oliver's injury for about two seconds, before laughing it off.  I mean seriously, do he just skip arms and torso day in the weight room on this team?  How many bicep and pec issues can we have?  At the point, I just can't expect some of these guys to stay healthy.  But unlike other weeks where the injuries piled on, it was amazing to see so many other players step up and watch the defense get arguably more dominant as the game went on.

 

Thank you for your post, but based on the highlighted comment above, I have to ask if you have ever seriously lifted weights?

 

Lifting weights does not eliminate the risk of injury for a 280 pound man falling on his arm in an awkward position with another 300 pound man falling on top of him. 

 

Some would argue that it can actually increase the risk of injury due to reducing flexibility. 

There was meant to be a lot of sarcasm and jest sprinkled in there.   I know this isn’t apples to apples 

[Roundybout]

Coleman: I’m truly baffled by how such a big guy never comes back for the ball. On one of the plays where Josh threw a near-interception, Coleman went out for a shallow curl route. He stood there waiting for the ball which let the Carolina DB make a break on it. He needs to move towards the ball and box people out. 

[GaryPinC]

43 minutes ago, Roundybout said:

Coleman: I’m truly baffled by how such a big guy never comes back for the ball. On one of the plays where Josh threw a near-interception, Coleman went out for a shallow curl route. He stood there waiting for the ball which let the Carolina DB make a break on it. He needs to move towards the ball and box people out. 

He just doesn't strike me as the brightest bulb and/or a short attention span so getting him to incorporate those small details into his game might take a long coaching haul, if ever.

 

 

Edited 44 minutes ago by GaryPinC

[ngbills]

2 hours ago, Virgil said:

 

8 - Bishop and Hancock? - Am I crazy or is that the best duo unit we've seen at safety so far this season?  I'm not dumping on Poyer, but Hancock flashed some speed out there.  Catching Dowdle from twenty yards away to save a touchdown is no easy feat.  Maybe it was the pressure up front too, but the safety play seemed to be more relaxed and confident out there.

 

Hancock played 16 snaps. Not sure we can take a ton from that. 

[nosejob]

39 minutes ago, sunshynman said:

He wasn’t hurt from being fell on. It was his arm was out trying to grab the RB and it was the awkward position that caused the injury. 
 

But to your point. Doesn’t matter how much you lift. The more flexible a muscle the less an injury like this happens. But sometimes the wrong angle is going to cause it no matter what. 

100% agree. I ruptured my left bicep tendon lifting a washer. Had surgery and tore it again a week later. Just a freak thing, not another appliance.  Had another surgery and have always been paranoid about those weird angle lifts ever since. I don't even dare to push it like normal lifting. Ed is 100% done for the year. Sad. Jeff Simmons please!

[Whites Bay]

3 hours ago, Virgil said:

7 - Hairston - I don't think I realized how much I needed to see Hairston make that tackle on the swing pass until it happened.  That was an absolute hit for a guy that had questions about his size and tackling ability.  He didn't just tackle the guy, he came in at him like missile.  If that's a sign of things to come, our secondary just go a whole lot better. 

 

 

Put Horn out of the game.  That was a statement  tackle.  And I was very excited to see some speed out of Hancock as well.