What's wrong with Josh?

[ganesh]

4 hours ago, billsfan_34 said:

Footwork is off and pressing to find someone open. When one of our receivers is open, he doesn’t expect them to be open and I believe it is leading to accuracy issues. He is partially to blame as 17 advocated for Coleman. This guy cannot play at the NFL level. Shavers looks lost out there, Samuel is playing not to get hurt. We may have the worst receiving corps in the NFL. A slot receiver is our 1 (Shakir). Let that sink in.

The one thing I have been saying is why have we not split our backs out? All 3 can catch the ball. Put Ty or Ray split and Cook in the backfield. Put Coleman on the pine a little more. This kid has not earned the reps he is getting,

This is the stubborness of this coaching staff to be not creative...

[Augie]

16 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

 

This doesnt explain him missing throws.   He hasnt been good for a month now, and that isnt a result of being a game manager.

 

But Josh is the only reason the Bills ever win anything. He is the savior, and everyone else just keeps their job because of Josh. I’ve read that repeatedly. 

 

People who swing too far one way or the other are missing the obvious stuff in the middle. Josh isn’t perfect, and the HC and GM are not as atrocious as some would lead you to believe. 

[CincyBillsFan]

16 minutes ago, zow2 said:

 

That pass he threw late in the game vs Baltimore to Josh Palmer.  The one down the left sidelines perfectly over the outstretched LB..  I don't think he can make that throw these last 3 games.  The accuracy, the touch, the slump is too wonky.

He made one like it to Kincaid yesterday. 

 

The 3 sideline throws he's made over the last 2 games that went incomplete because the WR's couldn't get both feet in bounds was vintage Allen, particularly the throw to Shakir on 3rd & 10 against the Falcons.

 

The 19 yard TD strike to Knox on 3rd & 13 in the Atlanta game was vintage Allen as was the opening play 50 yard strike to Palmer.

 

 

 

 

Edited 5 hours ago by CincyBillsFan

[PayDaBill$]

Is Josh running less and less efficiently?  His numbers at least so far look similar to averages and other games for 2023 and 2024.

 

IMO he’s getting happy feet in the pocket & making a few bad throws when the first reads are to the wideouts and a bit frustrated with the result.  I don’t think the wideouts are providing adequate windows.  

Run game is fine, passing to the TE and slot seems to be working. We have no production in the passing attack going to the wideouts.  Seems pretty obvious to me as to what’s broken.

 

Only other thing I’d add is that I’d like to see the RB’s used to catch a few balls.

 

 

 

Edited 5 hours ago by PayDaBill$

[CincyBillsFan]

9 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

But Josh is the only reason the Bills ever win anything. He is the savior, and everyone else just keeps their job because of Josh. I’ve read that repeatedly. 

 

People who swing too far one way or the other are missing the obvious stuff in the middle. Josh isn’t perfect, and the HC and GM are not as atrocious as some would lead you to believe. 

By saying that Allen is the primary reason the Bills have been to the playoffs 6 straight seasons, have won 5 straight division titles and have been a leading SB contender the last 5 seasons is not the same thing as saying Allen is the "savior" and is "perfect".  Clearly no NFL QB is perfect or even close to being perfect throughout an entire season. And those of us defending Allen have never said he was.  But you are deluding yourself if you think that this team minus Allen would have had near the success it has had over the last 6 seasons.  

 

And yes McD & Bean are good at their jobs.  The question has always been are they good enough?  

 

 

[FireChans]

19 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

But Josh is the only reason the Bills ever win anything. He is the savior, and everyone else just keeps their job because of Josh. I’ve read that repeatedly. 

 

People who swing too far one way or the other are missing the obvious stuff in the middle. Josh isn’t perfect, and the HC and GM are not as atrocious as some would lead you to believe. 

Josh isn’t perfect.

 

i do think Josh is playing under duress with a receiving group that can’t get open consistently enough to make it easier for him. 
 

More support for the superstar QB to make superstar plays just makes sense. The greatest QBs of all time fluctuate in performance in relation to their supporting cast. 

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Andrew Son said:

Who were these better WR's we had last year?

Mack Hollins for 1.  Josh would actually have a WR he could pass to beyond 7 yards.  
The Amari Cooper affect. We added Amari and our offense made a huge jump after he was added.  Beane has a hard time learning from mistakes imo

Edited 5 hours ago by Pete

[jethro_tull]

Most of the time the receivers are not open and they are taking out the checkdown option too.   A couple misses, sure but that does not seem to be the biggest issue.  

It is almost like the defense knows exactly whet the Bills have called- schemes becoming too predictable.  

[QB Bills]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

 

But Josh is the only reason the Bills ever win anything. He is the savior, and everyone else just keeps their job because of Josh. I’ve read that repeatedly. 

 

People who swing too far one way or the other are missing the obvious stuff in the middle. Josh isn’t perfect, and the HC and GM are not as atrocious as some would lead you to believe. 

Sometimes the truth isn't always in the middle. Nobody seriously says Josh is perfect. No player is. But he's far better at his job than McDermott or Beane have been at theirs. And in terms of being a saviour, he's definitely saved the jobs of those two over the years among others.

[Alphadawg7]

17 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

 

This doesnt explain him missing throws.   He hasnt been good for a month now, and that isnt a result of being a game manager.

 

Allen has definitely not been up to par most the season.  He has been bailing on the pocket too early (and that cost us the Pats game late), he isn't seeing guys who are open, he is missing throws, he had multiple bad decision picks, and his ball placement has been wildly inconsistent resulting in either missed throws or completed throws that should have gone for bigger gains or scores with a better ball.  

 

I am not worried, I do believe he will find a way to turn it on, but something is definitely off right now.  And I think part of the problem is Brady and his misuse of the personnel.  

1. Keon - They have turned him into literally Mack Hollins 2.0 with how they use him.  He is getting the most snaps (100% on Sunday) because they have made him a blocker first rather than a primary target.  Its also hard for a primary WR to get it going when most the snaps they play are not intended to get him the ball. 
   1. And when they do use him as a pass catcher, they keep trying to fit a square peg into a round hole and are using him wrong.  That is on Brady.
2. Shakir - He is coming off the field WAY too much.  He is by far our best WR and they are taking him off the field way too much in a rotation.  Shakir is Allens best outlet, they need to keep the targets he feels the best about on the field more.  He isn't tired, he doesn't need the rest, but this obsession to get 8-10 different guys touches every week is keeping Allen from having his best players on the field more.
3. OVER OBESSESSION WITH BLOCKING - A major issue with this offense is that on a lot of our called passes, there is a primary read where the other targets are there to clear out and block with one check down option.  If that primary read doesn't come open and they got the checkdown covered, it doesn't leave Allen anywhere to go with the ball.  
   1. LET OUR TARGETS BE TARGETS!  This is a big reason why when we get into the 2 minute offense we see us move the ball easier, there is less focus on scheming a guy open with guys to block and more on pushing the ball down field where our targets are running more as actual targets.  
4. Samuels/Moore - They need to choose ONE and get him involved.  They basically are splitting the reps that should be there for one WR, and again, its hard for a QB and WR to get rhythm and in sync when they are just in and out of the huddle so much.  Pick one already and let Allen get used to throwing to them.  
5. Too many multiple TE sets.  If we are going to run different big packages with 2 and 3 TE's, then use them in the passing game like they said they were going to do when they drafted Kincaid after paying Knox.  

I have been a big fan of Brady through his first 1 1/2 seasons.  But in 2025 he has not been good and his adjustments have not been good.  Yes we had a big points output against Carolina, but the reality is the passing game still had all the same issues and was anemic.  Our score was based on the run game and the bad Carolina offense and defense.  

 

If this team plays the same way on offense next week against KC, I am telling you we wont win.  Cook isn't getting over 200 yards rushing on the Chiefs, Allen and the passing game will need to be effective vs KC or we might be headed for a wildcard birth this year if we lost that game and potentially go down 2 games to the Pats in our division.  

[Sojourner]

5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Allen has definitely not been up to par most the season.  He has been bailing on the pocket too early (and that cost us the Pats game late), he isn't seeing guys who are open, he is missing throws, he had multiple bad decision picks, and his ball placement has been wildly inconsistent resulting in either missed throws or completed throws that should have gone for bigger gains or scores with a better ball.  

 

I am not worried, I do believe he will find a way to turn it on, but something is definitely off right now.  And I think part of the problem is Brady and his misuse of the personnel.  

1. Keon - They have turned him into literally Mack Hollins 2.0 with how they use him.  He is getting the most snaps (100% on Sunday) because they have made him a blocker first rather than a primary target.  Its also hard for a primary WR to get it going when most the snaps they play are not intended to get him the ball. 
   1. And when they do use him as a pass catcher, they keep trying to fit a square peg into a round hole and are using him wrong.  That is on Brady.
2. Shakir - He is coming off the field WAY too much.  He is by far our best WR and they are taking him off the field way too much in a rotation.  Shakir is Allens best outlet, they need to keep the targets he feels the best about on the field more.  He isn't tired, he doesn't need the rest, but this obsession to get 8-10 different guys touches every week is keeping Allen from having his best players on the field more.
3. OVER OBESSESSION WITH BLOCKING - A major issue with this offense is that on a lot of our called passes, there is a primary read where the other targets are there to clear out and block with one check down option.  If that primary read doesn't come open and they got the checkdown covered, it doesn't leave Allen anywhere to go with the ball.  
   1. LET OUR TARGETS BE TARGETS!  This is a big reason why when we get into the 2 minute offense we see us move the ball easier, there is less focus on scheming a guy open with guys to block and more on pushing the ball down field where our targets are running more as actual targets.  
4. Samuels/Moore - They need to choose ONE and get him involved.  They basically are splitting the reps that should be there for one WR, and again, its hard for a QB and WR to get rhythm and in sync when they are just in and out of the huddle so much.  Pick one already and let Allen get used to throwing to them.  
5. Too many multiple TE sets.  If we are going to run different big packages with 2 and 3 TE's, then use them in the passing game like they said they were going to do when they drafted Kincaid after paying Knox.  

I have been a big fan of Brady through his first 1 1/2 seasons.  But in 2025 he has not been good and his adjustments have not been good.  Yes we had a big points output against Carolina, but the reality is the passing game still had all the same issues and was anemic.  Our score was based on the run game and the bad Carolina offense and defense.  

 

If this team plays the same way on offense next week against KC, I am telling you we wont win.  Cook isn't getting over 200 yards rushing on the Chiefs, Allen and the passing game will need to be effective vs KC or we might be headed for a wildcard birth this year if we lost that game and potentially go down 2 games to the Pats in our division.  

Well said, might not be in total agreement but for the majority it is spot on and hard to argue against. Brady has to be held accountable. 
 

Unless I’m misunderstanding the overall take, the players are a problem but how they are used is a bigger contributing factor. That comes down to the coaching staff. 

[zow2]

15 hours ago, Returntoglory said:

As a newlywed, I remember the challenges that marriage put on both of us and the major adjustments we both had to make. Many highs and lows early on.

 

I'm wondering how much the two newlyweds being separated during the week plays into both of their heads. Especially with Hailee's admitting battles with anxiety.  If she shares any of her flareups with Josh during the week, or god forbid, on game day, that's baggage that will definitely way on his mind. 

 

Just curious if this is causing any type of distraction that is taking him off of his game.

"I take a step away from whatever is making me feel that way, sit, and do nothing. There's a lot of pressure around doing something when you feel this way, but you can also do nothing. You can curl up with your favorite blanket and not talk to anyone for ten minutes. Take a gentle pause."

 

I can kind of commiserate with Josh on this.  When i was dating my wife she thought I was the MVP.  After marriage she sometimes looks at me like I'm the NY Giants version of Daniel Jones.

[Returntoglory]

22 minutes ago, zow2 said:

 

I can kind of commiserate with Josh on this.  When i was dating my wife she thought I was the MVP.  After marriage she sometimes looks at me like I'm the NY Giants version of Daniel Jones.

I know 😉

[2003Contenders]

Many of us had concerns going into the season that the WR room simply wasn't good enough. So the struggles from that perspective have gone as expected. 

 

Still, as many have pointed out, Josh has looked very uncomfortable at times during these last 3 games -- and, really, I thought this started showing up a bit against the Saints -- even though the Bills managed to win that one. I do feel like he may have pressed too much against the Pats -- and Diggs' presence on the opposing team may have played a role there. The same thing happened last season when the Bills played the Texans (when a healthy Diggs was there). Against Atlanta he faced a rested team with a DC that has had success in the past making Josh uncomfortable.

 

Here's the thing. The younger version of Josh was often criticized for playing "hero" ball and trying to do too much, when the play was simply not there. This more mature version of Josh is content to take what the defense gives him and NOT try the low percentage plays when he doesn't have to. That said, there is a fine line between being smart with the ball and not taking unnecessary risks versus being completely risk adverse (i.e. showing no sense of urgency) and allowing an inferior opponent to hang around in the game. I feel like Josh was closer to being "smart" with the ball against Carolina than he was to being "out-of-sorts" in the prior 2 games. The Bills never trailed in this game -- and, indeed, even though they had to settle for FGs on the first 2 drives, it was pretty clear that they were going to be able to run the ball all game against the Panthers. So, when execution broke down on those pass plays, it was better for him to take a sack or check down than to unnecessarily put the ball at risk as he may have done even as recently as 2 years ago (most notably against beatable teams like the Jets and Jags). 

 

I also got a sense by halftime against the Panthers that he may have gotten his mojo back. He definitely looked more comfortable and played much better in the 2nd half.

 

One other thing I noticed is that the receivers definitely looked better on scramble drills Sunday than they had looked in the previous 2 games. For example, both Moore and Shakir stayed with him as he raced toward the sideline. Now, both of them failed to get their feet down in bounds on passes intended for them, but at least both provided him with an option when he was flushed from the pocket. 

 

Obviously, the passing game needs to step it up as the team faces tougher opponents (starting with the Chiefs next week). 

 

[Mat68]

Year over year its about the same.  Little more yards per game and yards per attempt compared to last season.  Biggest difference is the sacks.  Maybe chasing it a bit at the moment.  First season where James Cook and the run game is the best part of the offense including Josh.  This could have been a weird game if Josh had to throw it 40 times. He had to throw it 19 and sat the 4th quarter.  Multiple games this season the run game and defense ended it without needing Allen. 
 

 

Thats not a problem for us it is for the Bills future opponents.  Defenses are still unwilling to over commit to stopping the run.  A few tendency breakers and the offense can look more explosive.  James Cook had 81 yards on 10 carries in the first quarter.  Keep running it and forcing them to stop it.  It was not as flashy as Daboll 25 straight passes to start a game. This was art by Brady.  19 for 219 is College type numbers.  That helps the passing game.  Everyone is terrified of Allen and the Bills are murdering people with Cook.  Cooks metrics even in losses has pointed to more use not lack of effectiveness. 

[GASabresIUFan]

Has he not been the same since he got popped in the nose?