Sean took exception to Brady's decisions, did NOT "rip him a new one" but I like to exaggerate

[Steptide]

I know we had a different oc at the time, but does McDermott and beane not remember the offenses we had from 20-22? Do they not remember how good Diggs, beasley and brown were? I just can't wrap my head around being ok with our current wr's. Our most productive wr's were either free agents, or trades (Diggs). Shakir has come around but that took years and he's not a number 1. MAYBE Coleman becomes a 1, but at this rate I'm not counting on it. 

[boyst]

The offense has not had the lead when on offense in over 2 games short of 2 minutes of play.

 

That's not just an OC problem.

[muppy]

46 minutes ago, Livinginthepast said:

McD's job is to hold his coaches to account. Still waiting for that to happen. Brady and Babich are convenient scapegoats but the buck stops with McD.

what we read quoted from press conference quotes isn't all that is being conversed between McDermott and his coaches. 

 

I hope he did verbally Rip him a new one in private actually. Why try to fix what is already working?  Come on Brady. what is that old expression "Get fancy get ******"

 

#17 said in his presser if it had worked it would be called brilliant. Since it did not it was seen as a Big mistake. That's true.   However

 

I still say keep doing what has worked until they stop it. And he chose not to use arguably our 2nd best player on the Team  for any 3rd down snaps?

 

we'll see in the future if the chastisement sunk in to Bradys' head.

 

I called what McDermott did in modern terms "throwing  Brady under the bus"  .

 

I think McDermott is ultimately responsible and I think he knows it too.  Be better coaching and playcalling ALL facets.

 

Including basic fundamentals . Enough with allll the penalties too. /vent

 

 

m

 

 

 

Edited 6 hours ago by muppy

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

This might be true if the person saying this doesn’t understand progressions or how football works from the QB position. 

I guess Joe Marino doesn’t understand progressions or how football works.  He pointed out the progressions part of it and he also pointed out obvious bad decisions.  
 

yes- Brady has been bad.  He doesn’t get a pass.  Allen also played a poorly and made bad decisions throughout the game.  It’s ok to admit when that happens….because it does.  Josh Allen wasn’t the reason we lost the game but if he played better than poor, we probably win the game.  

Edited 4 hours ago by NewEra

[dpberr]

It's been a mystery to me why NFL coaches and teams can't change "the" plan quickly, or from series to series.  It appears very difficult to do.  Once that game plan is installed for gameday, there's little deviation from it.  It's a game.  Not redirecting a cruise ship from north to south.

 

You'd think if you're the head coach and you don't like how James Cook is being utilized, you *TELL* your OC to start using him the way you want to see him used.  

 

If you see your soft squishy zone defense being mauled by a QB, do something different.  The Bills should know which quarterbacks can dissect a zone defense (like Matt Stafford).

 

As someone alluded to above, I also don't know why OCs don't incorporate plays that worked before for Josh Allen.  So what if they were from a different OC.  It's not copyrighted.

Edited 5 hours ago by dpberr

[NoSaint]

2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Same thing I said all season to the "But Cook doesnt play 3rd down" statements: That's a coaching issue, not a Cook issue.

I keep saying “remember when they used to pull him in the red zone?”

 

it hurts bad to see your best players off the field on the most important plays. Especially when it’s clearly been a mistake in the past 

[GoBills808]

26 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I guess Joe Marino doesn’t understand progressions or how football works.  He pointed out the progressions part of it and he also pointed out obvious bad decisions.  
 

yes- Brady has been bad.  He doesn’t get a pass.  Allen also played a poorly and made bad decisions throughout the game.  It’s ok to admit when that happens….because it does.  Josh Allen was the reason we lost the game but if he played better than poor, we probably win the game.  

and if he played worse than great vs Baltimore we lose

 

as @HappyDayssays- one of the worst relics of McDermott are the fans who have been conditioned to blame Allen for anything less than mvp level play

[Never NEVER Give-up]

I'd like to see Cook & Johnson on the field at the same time.  Especially when we are short at WR and TE.  Put one in the backfield and one out wide.  Use motion and you can run/pass whenever you want - defense would be on their heels and have match-up problems w/either back.

[Einstein]

56 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I guess Joe Marino doesn’t understand progressions or how football works.  

Correct.

Not sure what made you think a podcaster is an expert in the first place.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

I don't understand why football coaches can be so stubbornly stupid.

 

Football is EASY. If you have something working (Cook in the second half), you keep doing it over and over until the opponent does what it takes to stop it. At that point, you attack the weakness caused by THEIR change of plans.

 

But these guys? NO-HO-HO we can't have that. No, we'd rather a jet sweep on fourth and short that is subsequently fumbled and then stuffed than having the eighteen foot tall QB fall forward for it or heck, a simple handoff to an RB averaging close to four yards a pop.

 

It's idiocy, unbridled, unvarnished idiocy. Either that or it's the byproduct of new age analytics foolishness.

Edited 5 hours ago by Pine Barrens Mafia

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

I don't understand why football coaches can be so stubbornly stupid.

 

Football is EASY. If you have something working (Cook in the second half), you keep doing it over and over until the opponent does what it takes to stop it. At that point, you attack the weakness caused by THEIR change of plans.

 

But these guys? NO-HO-HO we can't have that. No, we'd rather a jet sweep on fourth and short that is subsequently fumbled and then stuffed than having the eighteen foot tall QB fall forward for it or heck, a simple handoff to am RB averaging close to four yards a pop.

 

It's idiocy, unbridled, unvarnished idiocy. Either that or it's the byproduct of new age analytics foolishness.

 

It's even more frustrating because Brady famously did just that against the Cowboys in 2023 when it became apparent they couldnt stop the run. Brady got a ton of kudos from the players for getting away from his game plan and adjusting to the thing that was working and continuing to call it until they stopped it (which they never did).

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

Brady should have 2 homework assignments over the bye - mandated assignments.  

1. Study the Eagles down and short game:  We have Josh Allen and Cook, and we suddenly suck on down and short, its ridiculous.  We went from being unstoppable on down and short, to some very ill timed and weird bastardized version of a wannabe tush push (something we used to do quite well) in the AFCCG.  
   1. It was like the Bills decided they were going to go hard against the Tush Push and refused to run anything close to it and what they did run was a joke.  And now this year, not only are we not doing a proper tush push or proper sneak, we are doing all these bone head cutesie plays that are not only not working consistently, but also resulted in 2 fumbles in the last 2 games.
2. Study what the Falcons did this weekend to us:  How the Falcons used London and Bijan in the passing game is what they need to be looking at on how to utilize Cook and Keon.  Im not saying Keon and Cook are exactly the same level or type of player as each, but how they use them is exactly we should be looking to get Keon more involved and Cook more involved in our passing game.  
   1. London isn't a burner either, but Falcons move him around to get him the ball in space and get him off the line easier.  
   2. Cook is a ghost in our passing game, him suddenly not being used in that capacity is mistake and I think it has to do with how many carries he is getting if I had to guess, otherwise nothing about it makes sense.  If reducing Cooks touches is the reason, then they need to get Davis like 8-10 carries a game to offload some of Cooks touches to get him more in the passing game.  Whatever the reason, its just wrong.  Him never being an option on 3rd down, or on sure passing downs is mind blowing.  Even McD seemed genuinely shocked to find that out.  

Ive been a supporter of Brady since his emergence, and I do think that support was warranted and deserved.  But, the is the NFL, teams CATCH UP to what you are doing and all it takes is one team to show the blueprint on how to disrupt it and then you have to adjust.  Even Sean McVay had to adjust and evolve along the way.  

 

So this for me is Brady's moment to prove he is a top tier OC and future HC or he that he was a guy that did something different until teams figured it out and it fizzled and never recovered.  

 

Everybody eats is a great mantra, and a great mindset.  But it should be just that, a mantra/mindset - not a literal forced game plan.  It needs to mean, don't force feed the ball to a target, take what the defense gives you and make smart decisions.  But this year, the commitment seems to be more focused on 8-10 guys catch passes each week, too many plays where guys are all running clear outs with no intent on them getting the ball to scheme one guy open, even a backup WR, TE or RB to where the only way anyone else is getting the ball is if the play breaks down.  I mean our 3rd string WR's, TE's, and RB's are too involved, we need to game plan to get our better players more quality touches, not just get everyone touches.  If our 3rd string is out there, and no one is open, sure get him the ball.  But we are running plays to get these guys touches too much. 

 

Bonus Points:  He should go watch film of Keon's last year in college to see exactly how not to use him.  We are using him the same way, a tall target that just runs too many routes that don't suit his abilities and puts him more in consistent contested catch or back shoulder type plays.  Again, watch Drake London this past game Brady, get Keon more quality opportunities that better suit his abilities to make plays.  We are using him more like Mack Hollins than an actual player we are looking to get good looks too.  Someone who clears out and blocks more than a guy who we are game planning to get involved.  Why isn't Keon getting slants/crossers in the redzone or down and goal?  Like are you serious?  Such a stupid missed opportunity, stop making him beat a corner on the outside in the red zone.  

Edited 4 hours ago by Alphadawg7

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

3 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

It's even more frustrating because Brady famously did just that against the Cowboys in 2023 when it became apparent they couldnt stop the run. Brady got a ton of kudos from the players for getting away from his game plan and adjusting to the thing that was working and continuing to call it until they stopped it (which they never did).

 

 

It's like these guys have the attention span of a hamster. 

 

Also, what's with subbing out Cook in key moments? He's easily the most speed oriented player on offense and they just LOVE putting him on the sidelines when it matters most.

 

I don't get the thought process 

Edited 5 hours ago by Pine Barrens Mafia

[Dan]

37 minutes ago, dpberr said:

It's been a mystery to me why NFL coaches and teams can't change "the" plan quickly, or from series to series.  It appears very difficult to do.  Once that game plan is installed for gameday, there's little deviation from it.  It's a game.  Not redirecting a cruise ship from north to south.

 

You'd think if you're the head coach and you don't like how James Cook is being utilized, you *TELL* your OC to start using him the way you want to see him used.  

 

If you see your soft squishy zone defense being mauled by a QB, do something different.  The Bills should know which quarterbacks can dissect a zone defense (like Matt Stafford).

 

As someone alluded to above, I also don't know why OCs don't incorporate plays that worked before for Josh Allen.  So what if they were from a different OC.  It's not copyrighted.

This.    I've never played professional football, so I just assume its my ignorance of the way things are.   I also don't watch/keep up with many other NFL teams, because the NFL makes it difficult to get invested in teams when they always seem to favor 2-3 teams with officiating.   So… maybe its not just a Bills thing.  
 

But, yes, I would think… I'm an owner with billions of $$s and want my franchise to hoist the Lombardi because that’s good in so many ways.  I would have teams of scouts that do nothing but track all the opponents, all season to develop trends, tendencies, weaknesses and strengths.  Then develop game plans off that, based on a team of scouts that continually self scouts the Bills all season.  And, they give the game plan to the coaches on monday morning.   BUT… if that doesn’t hold true because another team has had ..say a bye week to prepare… you have to be flexible enough to switch plans mid-game.  And, for the love of all that is holy, the HC has to demand that certain key playmakers are on the field in certain key situations.  
 

Bills had the ball, down by 7, roughly 7 mins to go in the game.  THAT is the drive you have to be your best, have your best players on the field, call the best plays you've run repeatedly in practice since TC.  AND you need to know what your opponent is most likely going to do to try and stop you, based on afore said scouting.  It seems too often.. they just throw a dart at the play board and hope for the best. 
 

I know they normally give the players the bye week off.   But I would have practices every day, just a different kind of practice.  Have them all just go line up correctly in pads, and stand there for 5 mins at a time.  Force them to be mindful of their assignments, where the LOS is (are they offside), think.   Just think.   Why are you 15 yards off the LOS when they only need 4yds?  Why are you going to lose contain and let the RB easily get around you to the sideline?   What do you do when the guy covering you, blitzes?  Why are you running down field like you're lost when you're supposed to break to the outside?   Just think about all this.  Stand there, repeatedly, in different looks and stand there.  Think.  No talking, no walking, no nothing.. just thinking.  

 

Then, every day after practice, everyone meets in the meeting room and sits patiently while Brady writes on the white board… “I will not forget James Cook is on the team.”  1,000 times. Then have Babbich stand up and write… “I will not suck. I will simplify the defensive communication and I will stop checking the equity reports on my house in anticipation of moving this winter and focus on the Panthers.”  1,000 times.   (I'd probably make them do it in cursive writing, just to mess with them.. but i can be dic at times)

 

but.. like i said.. i've never played professional football.  So, these are probably bad ideas.
 

 

[Einstein]

58 minutes ago, dpberr said:

It's been a mystery to me why NFL coaches and teams can't change "the" plan quickly, or from series to series.  It appears very difficult to do.  Once that game plan is installed for gameday, there's little deviation from it.  It's a game.  Not redirecting a cruise ship from north to south.

I was just telling another poster this yesterday" Most NFL fans dont realize that NFL coaches are just normal average people like anyone else.  Most are not extraordinarily smart (one exception I can think of off the top of my head is Sean McVay). For the most part, these are average people who were in the right place at the right time and get into the NFL. Position coaches typically get promoted to coordinator because they are on the right team - for example, they are a lowly position coach on a team who drafts Peyton Manning, team becomes good, its assumed that position coach must be good because they're winning games, and that coach gets promoted.

This is why you see so many coaches struggle on different teams after having success on one. 

Many posters have this idea that coaches are brilliant football minds. Many are not. 

[NoSaint]

34 minutes ago, Never NEVER Give-up said:

I'd like to see Cook & Johnson on the field at the same time.  Especially when we are short at WR and TE.  Put one in the backfield and one out wide.  Use motion and you can run/pass whenever you want - defense would be on their heels and have match-up problems w/either back.

just wild that down Kincaid and Palmer we still had cook at his own floor for snap count. I think I saw it was his second lowest snap share of the year? 
 

you’d think given injuries this is the spot you involve him extra not less 

[Dan]

14 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Brady should have 2 homework assignments over the bye - mandated assignments.  

1. Study the Eagles down and short game:  We have Josh Allen and Cook, and we suddenly suck on down and short, its ridiculous.  We went from being unstoppable on down and short, to some very ill timed and weird bastardized version of a wannabe tush push, something we had done quite well previously, in the AFCCG.  It was like the Bills decided they were going to go hard against the Tush Push and refused to run anything close to it and what they did run was a joke.  And now this year, not only are we not doing a proper tush push or proper sneak, we are doing all these bone head cutesie plays that are not only not working consistently, but also resulted in 2 fumbles in the last 2 games.
2. Study what the Falcons did this weekend to us:  How the Falcons used London and Bijan in the passing game is what they need to be looking at on how to utilize Cook and Keon.  Im not saying Keon and Cook are exactly the same level or type of player as each, but how they use them is exactly we should be looking to get Keon more involved and Cook more involved in our passing game.  London isn't a burner either, but Falcons move him around to get him the ball in space and get him off the line easier.  Cook is a ghost in our passing game, him suddenly not being used in that capacity is mistake and I think it has to do with how many carries he is getting if I had to guess, otherwise nothing about it makes sense.  If reducing Cooks touches is the reason, then they need to get Davis like 8-10 carries a game to offload some of Cooks touches to get him more in the passing game.  Whatever the reason, its just wrong.  Him never being an option on 3rd down, or on sure passing downs is mind blowing.  Even McD seemed genuinely shocked to find that out.  

Ive been a supporter of Brady since his emergence, and I do think that support was warranted and deserved.  But, the is the NFL, teams CATCH UP to what you are doing and all it takes is one team to show the blueprint on how to disrupt it and then you have to adjust.  Even Sean McVay had to adjust and evolve along the way.  

 

So this for me is Brady's moment to prove he is a top tier OC and future HC or he that he was a guy that did something different until teams figured it out and it fizzled and never recovered.  

 

Everybody eats is a great mantra, and a great mindset.  But it should be just that, a mantra/mindset - not a literal forced game plan.  It needs to mean, don't force feed the ball to a target, take what the defense gives you and make smart decisions.  But this year, the commitment seems to be more focused on 8-10 guys catch passes each week, too many plays where guys are all running clear outs with no intent on them getting the ball to scheme one guy open, even a backup WR, TE or RB to where the only way anyone else is getting the ball is if the play breaks down.  I mean our 3rd string WR's, TE's, and RB's are too involved, we need to game plan to get our better players more quality touches, not just get everyone touches.  If our 3rd string is out there, and no one is open, sure get him the ball.  But we are running plays to get these guys touches too much. 

 

Bonus Points:  He should go watch film of Keon's last year in college to see exactly how not to use him.  We are using him the same way, a tall target that just runs too many routes that don't suit his abilities and puts him more in consistent contested catch or back shoulder type plays.  Again, watch Drake London this past game Brady, get Keon more quality opportunities that better suit his abilities to make plays.  We are using him more like Mack Hollins than an actual player we are looking to get good looks too.  Someone who clears out and blocks more than a guy who we are game planning to get involved.  Why isn't Keon getting slants/crossers in the redzone or down and goal?  Like are you serious?  Such a stupid missed opportunity, stop making him beat a corner on the outside in the red zone.  

Very good points, all around.   Basically what I said.   LOL.

 

I've been thinking… they got stuffed with the tush push in the championship game, so its like they’re making a very concerted effort to do other things in those situations.  Almost like they’ve decided to try and be smarter and get ahead of it.. but instead they look too cute. Mostly because they're trying other things that just aren’t working or are appropriate for needing 1-2 yds in critical moments.

 

Is it me… or does the offense from the last 2-3 weeks not even look like the same offense as the first 3 weeks?   

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

and if he played worse than great vs Baltimore we lose

 

as @HappyDayssays- one of the worst relics of McDermott are the fans who have been conditioned to blame Allen for anything less than mvp level play

lol.  So funny how you get so defensive any time anyone says anything negative about 17.  It’s ok to say that he sucked on Monday.  If he played like that every game, we wouldn’t make the playoffs.  We might lose every game.  Yes, I agree, he’s that good and that important to our success.  Beane and McD both suck, I know, I’ve heard it a million times over the last 10 days. 
 

yes- you’re right, if he played worse than great vs Baltimore, we lose.  What does that have to do with the Atlanta game.  
 

regarding the last paragraph…..  I made a typo.  I meant to say that Josh Allen wasn’t the reason we lost vs Atlanta, but if he had played a better than poor game, we may have won.   My bad.  

 

I feel like Brady, Babich and McD were the biggest factor in the loss

 

brady- bad play calling and not getting cook involved in the pass game

 

babich-  let’s be real, he has done a terrible job in 80%+ of his game.  
 

McDermott- penalties fall in the HC.  Penalties killled us. Stupid penalties. 

 

Shout to to Rapp for being the worst player on the field.  Yet again.  

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, Dan said:

Very good points, all around.   Basically what I said.   LOL.

 

I've been thinking… they got stuffed with the tush push in the championship game, so its like they’re making a very concerted effort to do other things in those situations.  Almost like they’ve decided to try and be smarter and get ahead of it.. but instead they look too cute. Mostly because they're trying other things that just aren’t working or are appropriate for needing 1-2 yds in critical moments.

 

What they ran in the AFCCG was not a tush push or any sort.  The irony of the name "Tush Push" is that it actually has almost nothing to do with being pushed in the tush.  In fact, the only thing the Bills did in the AFCCG resembling the tush push was having someones hands on Josh's Tush.  The entire fundamental workings of the tush push is based on 2 factors and 2 factors only.  The entire OL getting low, perpendicular to the ground, and getting push from underneath with leverage..and 2nd, a QB with strong legs getting low behind those guys and going straight ahead.  The pushing of the tush is like sprinkles on a cupcake, yeah they are there and have some minute value, but its not what makes it a cupcake.  

 

What the Bills do is have Josh Allen literally not even go forward, he first goes sideways and looks for a hole in a gap.  And its the same spot he always goes on top of that.  That is a QB sneak, a predictable one at that, dependent on a hole or a gap being won where sure someone like Cook also pushes his butt.  And then when it didn't work in the AFCCG, they started running it even worse the rest of the game.

 

What is the most maddening about it, is that the Bills have previously run very good and very strong QB sneaks and even tush pushes.  In the AFCCG they ran bastardized or worse versions of what we previously used that were utterly not effective.  Why they went away from what they did previously will always be a question I want answered.  And now the more important question is why don't they just literally run a proper "tush push" where the OL goes low with Allen powering low straight up the middle behind them.  Eagles execute this as close to 100% as a play can ever get in the NFL, and we have the QB and OL to do the same and we just refuse to do it.  And I think its entirely because McD and the Bills were vocal against the Tush Push and wanted it banned.  

 

But its NOT banned, so why the hell are we not using it?  Thats like wanting to ban guns, but then finding yourself in a gun fight and having the most powerful gun laying on the ground next to you while you still throw rocks back at the guys shooting at you.  

 

1 minute ago, Dan said:

 

Is it me… or does the offense from the last 2-3 weeks not even look like the same offense as the first 3 weeks?   

 

Honestly, the Bills offense really wasn't very consistent or good the first 2-3 weeks of the season.  It took a miracle fumble to win week 1 after the offense was not great for first 3 quarters week 1, then weeks 2-4 it really had large chuncks of time each game where it was stagnant.  Even when we put up 30 week 2, our offense was not great and we would not have put up 30 had the Jets offense not been so bad.  I think the past 2 weeks we just played better teams so it stood out more.  

[GoBills808]

43 minutes ago, NewEra said:

lol.  So funny how you get so defensive any time anyone says anything negative about 17.  It’s ok to say that he sucked on Monday.  If he played like that every game, we wouldn’t make the playoffs.  We might lose every game.  Yes, I agree, he’s that good and that important to our success.  Beane and McD both suck, I know, I’ve heard it a million times over the last 10 days. 
 

yes- you’re right, if he played worse than great vs Baltimore, we lose.  What does that have to do with the Atlanta game.  
 

regarding the last paragraph…..  I made a typo.  I meant to say that Josh Allen wasn’t the reason we lost vs Atlanta, but if he had played a better than poor game, we may have won.   My bad.  

 

I feel like Brady, Babich and McD were the biggest factor in the loss

 

brady- bad play calling and not getting cook involved in the pass game

 

babich-  let’s be real, he has done a terrible job in 80%+ of his game.  
 

McDermott- penalties fall in the HC.  Penalties killled us. Stupid penalties. 

 

Shout to to Rapp for being the worst player on the field.  Yet again.  

its not defensiveness...i think it might be exhaustion

 

you have no idea how tiring it is being correct about basically everything about this team and having to argue w you guys for a couple yrs until its proven right

 

this is just another one of those things