Kincaid Shakir and especially Cook need to be focal points of the passing attack

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Okay if this is true then we should not have drafted and Coleman and took McConkey instead.  The logic behind taking Coleman, which made sense to me, was that he had the big frame and BB background to enable him to shine snagging 50/50 balls.  Something the Bills did not have. 

 

 

 

I am not saying you cant use him for that too, I am saying they run too many routes for him that don't suit his game.  You cant just throw 50/50 balls to him, you need to move him around and let him run routes where he is better suited for success too.  Just running him deep down field along the sideline to maybe throw and back shoulder pass to all the time is not going to get him regularly involved, not to mention, it makes it pretty easy to scheme against.  He has shown he can be dangerous on slants, crossers, comebacks, but he gets very few targets and routes like that each week.  They seem to use him more like Mack Hollins than an actual focal point of the passing attack.  

[gobills404]

Dorsey and Brady saw these plays and said “best we can do is make you pass block and be the check down every passing play”. (First tweet won’t embed for some reason)

 

https://x.com/georgiafootball/status/1459648727937921030?s=46

 

 

[colin]

i remember when i worked in London a colleague of mine mentioned that there are tiny airstrips all over the UK that private flyers can just book and take off and land from.  it was part of him describing how the UK favors putting a little bit of resources into everything to have something for everyone rather than a real determined focus to pick what one wants to do well and put resources into that.

 

IMO, that's the exact problem with our team right now.  we have lots of nifty things, lot's pass rushers on d who sit more than half the game, lots of tight ends who can block and run, and what seems like 4 slot WRs and 3 backs (two of whom sit on any given play) who can do a few things.  furthermore, our philosophy on o is sprinkling the ball around out of many groupings and formations, to give teams more things to study on tape.  on D, we like to have eight reads for each person in the back 7 and four calls to be made pre snap so everyone can be on the same page, and we are trying to defend everything all at once.  clearly, this approach is not working.

 

on the all 22 of one of the plays, i saw ATL overload blitz, press man all over, and rode the back out of the back field so he wasn't an outlet (the back ran to the offense's right).  the slot wr on the left was uncovered, no one within 10 yards of him.  they gambled because they had confidence on what we were going to do, and were willing to take a risk at a super easy first down (and more) if allen and the O picked it up.  they saw our tendencies and decided to not let us pick our best shot on O, and dared us to press the matter, which we did not and just took our best non 17 weapon off the field for the last like 4 drives.  Our D ends up giving up giant gashing plays underneath the coverage that will die before it allows a deep pass, but it still seems to produce some stops and maybe turnovers after getting totally cooked for long periods of time (don't get me wrong, the d sucks).  on O, we have somehow backed ourselves into a corner where if we do anything wrong and get behind the sticks, none of it works.  the silly jet sweeps would work if executed perfectly, but for what, 12 yards?  meanwhile targets to tight ends out of play action are easy mode plays that pick up chunks and TDs, and passes to backs are similar.  to diversify your game on O but still be fragile is a foolish thing to do, having the ol and qb make hard reads into blitzes which simply would not work if we used different formations or groupings is the height of arrogance.  i'm not saying go back to 5 wide empty and just throw the rock like we did in 2021, but we have to have a couple things we can go back to when we need production, and the OL, QB, TE, and RB talent we have is so so so much better than our WRs that i'd be quite happy to see more than 1 WR on the pitch less than 25% of the time.

 

we present a degree of difficulty with our D that is near the lowest in the nfl, it can make some stops with great DL play, but it doesn't actually force the O to take any bait or get out of their comfort zone.  On O, we seem to refuse to go for easy mode stuff, and rely on coleman one on one, or a back picking up a free runner, or the OL to diagnose and stop all blitzes instead of maybe running a screen.  

 

OP is 100% correct we need to make our best players the focus of the O, and having a screen game, less predictability (80% run from under center, 80% from shotgun is disgusting), and chucking the no reward trick plays into niagra falls is a great start.

 

remember the fake punt in the playoffs vs kc, the flea flicker vs baltimore in 2024, and the jet sweeps to our 2nd best TE and maybe 4th WR in the past two games?  i think brady might not be capable of learning what works vs what doesn't.  every time we show a look that murks people, we throw it away for some weak stuff that the players clearly don't have confidence in.

[billsfan_34]

3 hours ago, jlatas said:

You are right on. We have put every receiver into a box as to what they do and every team knows this! We need more versatility. Having a receiver or two thats considered a gadget player (and cant stay healthy) does us no good

Yeah, getting tired of new players needing to fit the "culture"! Maybe talent and athleticism count even more. The first way is definitely not working lately

We need some Bone Thugs n Harmony 😂

[machine gun kelly]

My point is play Moore and Palmer if healthy in two weeks as 1, 2, and 3 Shakir.  Kinkaid as the top 11 personnel and sit Coleman’s butt down except for red zone for the deep fade plays.  Trade for Douglas as has been mentioned as better than Tre, and if Hairston comes back, we have more depth.  A stretch is Olave from NO in a trade.  They should be in a fire sale in a couple of weeks.  Speed and separation is what matters.  C9leman does nothing for us.

[Einstein]

7 hours ago, HappyDays said:

I don't mean this as a criticism but Shakir is a limited player. 

 

This forum is not ready for this discussion. 

 

(whispering: but you’re right) 

[sunshynman]

I wanted Metcalf this offseason. It's criminal to see what effect he is having on the Steelers. 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

1 hour ago, bills11 said:

Agreed 100%... Diggs targets and production went wayy down once Joe Brady took over..and as we saw first hand unfortunately he's still got it..

Nah he did absolute crap against New Orleans. 

[BillsShredder83]

6 hours ago, YodaMan79 said:

You've very astute.  Wouldn't you kill for production like his, here?  I think his numbers define his numbers: 

The alter boy thing has always been a tired concept here... especially once we built a culture that should be able to support it. 

 

with that said Pickens is too f'n stupid to help.  Hes one of the dumbest, most childish, immature dbags ive ever seen speak in a lockerroom.  I dont care about off the field BS (barring S.A.) AT ALL. DWI's. Baby Mama's.  Loud mouths. Overly firey. 110mph in a 55.  Occasional drug charge. 

 

If theyre talented, produce and good teammates i want them on the team.  

 

Pickens, AB, those dude are children, they bring idiocy directly into lockerroom. I want no part of that.  Hes incapable of a discussion with.  Things like wanting the ball when a team is losing --- thats not a lockerroom issue to me.  

 

IDK if you saw those interviews in the lockerroom last year where he refused to speak.  Hes not 'too competitive', hes NOT competitive.  Wild bug up his arse, and hes shutting down, stop running routes, refuse to block at all.  Absolutely 0 part of that.  He's a net negative, or on the verge of being one at all times and over nothing

[LABILLBACKER]

8 hours ago, JohnnyBuffalo said:

Yeah I liked everybody eats when they would work what’s working until it slowed down and then they’d feed someone else for a minute.    Last week before their first lost I read Brady said he knew they needed to get Ray Davis more involved…I immediately had concerns that they’d force it even though James Cook had been on fire.  
 

Absolutely maddening philosophy being forced instead of being organic.  

As @Ray Stonada perfectly said, there is a wierd arrogance going on. Protect the scheme at all costs with your lives.  Smart coaches are flexible and base their gameplan based on their opponents flaws.  That’s what Belichick did for years.  Their philosophy is to continue on with the scheme at all costs, even if it ignores a couple players playing well.  Stubborn arrogance is just one of many flaws in the staff.

[Alphadawg7]

35 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

This forum is not ready for this discussion. 

 

(whispering: but you’re right) 

 

Weird then that so many current and former players, coaches, and GM's who regularly speak about him don't agree with you.  Guys who know and lived the game at a level no one here can even relate to all gush about him as a player, a weapon, and what he brings to the offense.  You will be hard pressed to find anyone outside of a small contingent on TSW who don't think Shakir is a very good player.  

[Einstein]

15 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Weird then that so many current and former players, coaches, and GM's who regularly speak about him don't agree with you. 

You mean geniuses like Rex Ryan? Spare me.

[Billsguy]

8 hours ago, Blackbeard said:

Everybody eats is just a red herring for the Bills only being able to afford mediocre players.

I think you are correct. Big balls Beane doesn't think the team needs a receiver. He is tired of hearing the criticism. 

 

Here is my take: Beane has failed miserably to provide Josh Allen some quality receivers. It is GM malpractice of the highest degree. Keon "can't get open" Coleman is looking like a complete BUST! Shakir is capable in the slot, but the genius GM has decided the Bills don't need quality outside receivers. Incompetence of the highest degree when you have such a quality QB. It's like having Michelangelo and not giving him any paint!!!

[DuckyBoys]

,maybe we can bring back Duke Williams

[3rdand12]

7 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

There is no reason, IMO, that Shakir shouldn’t have the volume that Beasley had.  There is nothing that Beasley could do that Shakir can’t.  He can split the safety’s better than Beasley….like Shakir did against Detroit.

this is a good subject for thought.

 I did not watch the game and catching up here and there.

But Shakir can do Shakir things , like Beasley could early on as a Bill.

Use him correctly and he will win his battles.

 

Feels like Brady is struggling to out think his week to week matchups with defenses.

 Players on the field and play calling for them to win the rep.

[Alphadawg7]

29 minutes ago, Einstein said:

You mean geniuses like Rex Ryan? Spare me.

 

Im not a Rex Ryan fan by any means - but he has forgotten more football knowledge in the last hour than you have ever known in your entire lifetime.  But no, I was NOT referring to Rex Ryan specifically if that helps your absurd take.  

[Einstein]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Im not a Rex Ryan fan by any means - but he has forgotten more football knowledge in the last hour than you have ever known in your entire lifetime.  But no, I was NOT referring to Rex Ryan specifically if that helps your absurd take.  

 

You know how I know that you have spent exactly zero time around NFL coaches Because you think like this.

 

Most NFL coaches are just normal guys who happened to stumble upon the right circumstances that brought them into the league. They’re not extra brilliant. They were simply in the right place at the right time with the right work ethic.

 

Football is also not an overly complex sport.

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

21 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

You know how I know that you have spent exactly zero time around NFL coaches Because you think like this.

 

Most NFL coaches are just normal guys who happened to stumble upon the right circumstances that brought them into the league. They’re not extra brilliant. They were simply in the right place at the right time with the right work ethic.

 

Football is also not an overly complex sport.

 

 

 

This might be the single most ridiculous thing I have ever read on this forum.  It also might be the single most inaccurate thing I have ever read on this board.  And it also might be simultaneously the single most delusional and narcissistic thing I have ever seen on this forum to even remotely imagine you could know as much or more than a career long football coach who has coached at the highest level of the sport and been part of the highest level of success of the highest level of the sport. 

 

I am actually impressed such a trifecta could even be accomplished in one post, so ironically, my hats off to you, bravo.  

 

PS:  Football is without a doubt the most complex of all major team sports, and it's not close.

 

Edited 6 hours ago by Alphadawg7

[RoscoeParrish]

58 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Weird then that so many current and former players, coaches, and GM's who regularly speak about him don't agree with you.  Guys who know and lived the game at a level no one here can even relate to all gush about him as a player, a weapon, and what he brings to the offense.  You will be hard pressed to find anyone outside of a small contingent on TSW who don't think Shakir is a very good player.  

This is now 2 years in a row where he’s clearly the best WR of overall underwhelming bunch with a future hall of fame QB throwing him the ball behind an elite OL, and he’s again on pace for 747 yards. 
 

I don’t think Shakir is bad. I think he’s a plus player. I don’t think it’s crazy to think this is as good as he’s gonna be on this team.

[Alphadawg7]

9 minutes ago, RoscoeParrish said:

This is now 2 years in a row where he’s clearly the best WR of overall underwhelming bunch with a future hall of fame QB throwing him the ball behind an elite OL, and he’s again on pace for 747 yards. 
 

I don’t think Shakir is bad. I think he’s a plus player. I don’t think it’s crazy to think this is as good as he’s gonna be on this team.

 

No disrespect, but this isn't how you can look at what his ceiling is.  This is the 2nd year in a row where our offense is geared around putting the ball into 8-10 different receivers hands per game, including consistently getting 3rd string players involved.  We are getting targets for 3 different TE's, 3 different RB's, 5 different WR's and every week.  Samuel, Shavers, Moore, Knox, Hawes, Davis, Ty, etc all getting targets on top of Keon, Palmer, Shakir, Kincaid, Cook.

 

Its a function of the offense, not the ability of the player.  Look at Diggs in the same season under Dorsey then under Brady.  Diggs was on pace for 2nd biggest season of his career under Dorsey, then under Brady his production fell off a cliff and over those final 7 games it was Shakir who led the team in receiving despite Diggs getting twice as many targets.  

 

I mean its clear as day its the offensive design limiting anyone players ceiling here for individual statistics in the passing game.  Look at Samuel before Buffalo and in Buffalo.  Look at Moore before Buffalo and in Buffalo.  Look at Cooper before Buffalo and in Buffalo.  Why is everyones yardage total significantly lower here under Brady than it was before Brady?  Because the offense does not focus on any one WR, no one gets proper targets, its literally designed to be anyone on any given play.  

 

So no disrespect, but hard disagree that Shakir's ceiling is being reached by being in this offense.  

 

 

Edited 7 hours ago by Alphadawg7