Seems like a bit too much panic right now

[starrymessenger]

As a league wide thing (not just the Bills), much pain and much unreasonable optimism (just ask a Ravens fan). The way things are shaking out now is hardly abnormal. I think many of us understood that the Pats game could be difficult. It was a real risk of loss even if not likely. What's important is that a team, that is any big team credibly in the running for a  championship, make the playoffs and, crucially, have its machine in gear by then. The big team that best does that will probably win.
Even now I would consider the Ravens a "big team" (assuming Lamar is soon back) and also the Chiefs. These organizations, like the Bills', are comparatively very good. I expect these teams, including the Bills, to get better as the season progresses (assuming no catastrophic injuries). Bengals chances have faded because of Burrow. I think that's unfortunate. The game is elevated by the play of its greatest players. I want to see all of them play (and beat the ones we need to beat).

Edited 16 hours ago by starrymessenger

[starrymessenger]

On 10/8/2025 at 9:25 PM, Low Positive said:

There is some truth to that, but we all also suffer from BBFS. And part of that is undervaluing our own players and overvaluing other teams players. Take a player like Ed Oliver. If the Bills had never drafted him and he was a Raven, half this board would get a warning from @simon in a non-Bills game thread for asking "why can't the Bills have a player like that?" every time he made a play. But put a Bills helmet on him, and everyone thinks he is average at best. All of those feelings used to be valid because for almost 20 years, this franchise felt like a joke. We hired guys like Buddy Nix, and we go fed "cash to the cap," and had guys retire at halftime. We had a coach quit! Not retire, but outright quit!. That never happens. Guys like Drew Bledsoe, Marshawn Lynch, and Stephon Gilmore couldn't wait to get out of this backwater on the fringes of the league.  Now, this is a well-run NFL franchise that players want to play for. But that perception of ineptness is set in stone for most of us. It's hard to get past. Sorry for all the philosophizing, but I have been thinking about this lately when I realize that my non-Bills fan friends have a much better opinion of Beane and McDermott than I do. 

 

BTW, the Bengals fans I know would trade their all-world WRs for our OL in a second. Sometimes we lose sight of the fact that the team is pretty good in the trenches, and that goes a long way in determining games. 

Depending upon the offensive philosophy and scheme I might trade our stellar offensive line for the Bengals' line and their #1 and #2 receivers. With those guys, Shakir, Kincaid, Cook and a good bottom of the order to fill out their receiving room (which I think the Bills have) we might score a thousand TD's. 

I would however never consider a trade like that unless my QB was at the level and had the attributes of Josh Allen or Pat Mahomes. It was a bad bet by Bengals management to take the route they did with Burrow. He goes down and the whole structure collapses. It's just that protecting him is a higher priority than it is in the case of the other two. All QBs need to be protected, but some a lot more than others.

 

 

[Turf Toejam 34]

Talking to Ravens and Chiefs fans, they believe that this would be the year for the Bills to go "all in".   I don't know what they need to do to address the identified needs (WR, CB, DT) but this would be the year to spend some future resources to have all weapons available for Josh.   The panic is real, but there a few pieces that could just get to a place where there is no regerts.   

Edited 15 hours ago by Turf Toejam 34

[Mr. WEO]

On 10/9/2025 at 6:38 PM, Success said:

 

The Pats do.

 

And I know the Ravens are collapsing - but believe strongly they will right the ship.

 

It's the NFL.  Anyone can lose to anyone.

 

well now they do.

 

Ravens are in deep deep trouble

[DeltaDigital]

3 hours ago, DeepPass said:

We are sadly lacking in defensive TALENT.  You can have great schemes but without enough talent how can they work?

its both. the scheme feasts on bum qbs. coupled with year after year of draft whiffs, this is what we're gonna get when up against a superiorly coached team, EVEN if the talent is sub-par on the opposing team. Preparation and coaching are paramount in a league with such close talent levels across rosters. 

[Shaw66]

I haven't read much of this thread, but it relates to something I've been thinking about. 

 

I agree there's too much panic. Of course, we'd like the Bills to be dominating every game instead of looking so suspect, but that isn't reasonable. Teams rarely do that. 

 

I agree with starry, that it's all about making the playoffs and playing well then. Ideally, you win the home field throughout, but homefield isn't as important as playing well when you get to the playoffs. 

 

I wrote last week about how the preseason is coming to an end.  Many people got on my case, saying that's ridiculous, but this past week has me even more convinced.  Who are the favorites to get to the Super Bowl?  Bills and Eagles, and that was AFTER both teams lost on Sunday.  Nobody thinks the Bills and Eagles are playing like big winners - they both are struggling.  But the question is who's most likely to put it together, and based on the bones of each team, the experience, the QB, most everyone still thinks those are the two leaders. 

 

I was watching the Eagles struggle against the Giants last night and could help but think two things:  Right now, the two teams looked similar, bumbling around the field, too many penalties, certainly not firing on all cylinders, leaky defense. Very similar.

 

The other thing I thought is that the Bills played a tough team on Sunday, a team that looked like it was coming together, got smacked around a bit, and lost by a field goal on the last play. The Eagles completely fell apa, rt against a team that had shown very little except a wish about their rookie QB. Eagles took a much worse beating. 

 

If the Eagles still are the team to beat in the NFC, then the Bills are struggling less. The offense clearly hasn't come together yet, but all the pieces are there. The passing game will be fine, especially when the oline tightens up the pass pro. Cook is doing fine. The defense hasn't found itself, but I think it's by design. I think, for example, that when we get to December we'll see the Bills' zone tighten, and they'll be tough against that underneath stuff that's killing them now. And the d line will get reinforcements and will be battle tested. 

 

Can I prove that we saw last week will fade as the team gets sharp in December?  No, but it looks to me as though the Bills are doing this consciously.  They will be cranking things up beginning after the bye, being 4-1 at this point will have been certainly good enough. 

[SoTier]

5 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

well now they do.

 

Ravens are in deep deep trouble

 

Playing the Rams without Lamar makes the Ravens suffering a fifth loss this weekend seem likely if not inevitable.   They would then be 1-5 at their bye.  Even before their plague of injuries, they didn't play like a team that could 9-2 over their last 11 games.

Edited 9 hours ago by SoTier

[Richard Noggin]

Seems like each year under McDermott, with one or two exceptions, the team's weaknesses get exposed over a multiple-game stretch, inviting criticism internally and externally. Luckily, the Bills have also shown a tendency to then rally and redefine themselves down the stretch. 

 

I hate the nagging sense that the Bills aren't at the cutting edge of opponent-specific gameplans or in-game play-calling. Margins are super fine in this league, and getting outcoached or doing less to actively attack and disrupt each specific opponent puts too much pressure on players to win in less-than-advantageous circumstances. My favorite coaches do specific things each week to give specific players advantages. I don't see that from the Bills (with success) as often as I'd like. Coaching staffs don't count against the cap and therefore should be mercilessly critiqued and improved upon as needed. 

 

Every roster has weaknesses. Which coaches do the best job of maximizing their personnel with what they're given? 

[machine gun kelly]

As usual Noggin, you have a measured approach to the Bills and the NFL.  We should bounce back in ATL, and then get two weeks for some guys to get healthy as well as add Ogunjobi, Hoecht, and if not Monday, most likely Oliver.  That will be a real shot in the arm for this defense.  If Hairston is still on IR, we have to trade for a CB.  White just can’t do it anymore.  Heck I’d rather even see Ingram over White.

 

Carolina should be nothing, and then things get more challenging with the Bucs, Chiefs, and Eagles.

[26TrapDraw]

On 10/8/2025 at 9:10 PM, NoSaint said:

I think there’s a, not totally undeserved, feeling that we have a qb that makes us a contender annually but the rest doesn’t always measure up. 
 

while the Trent and fitz teams that started hot were fools gold for wild card contention, this one feels a bit like that for the Super Bowl. 
 

in a league where you pass and stop the passer we are missing a secondary and a pass rush, as well as pass catchers. 
 

I’ll admit I think we overachieved last year a bit and outside of bosa we didn’t add a lot of new to the cupboard. Bosa might really help one of those 3 phases- maybe even 2 by taking stress off the secondary

 

none of that to say we are some 6 win fraud… but that I’m also not buying the if we beat New England we are the last undefeated and those question marks disappear. 

We have not seen him yet in tge regular season but I think Michael Hoecht is going to change the entire look of this defense when he comes back after the bye. I think Milano is done and our Lbs at this point need to be Bernard and Shaw Thompson. We can work with that. Our CB’s will need a move by the trade deadline to have any chance of a SB run as Tre is washed. I think Beane knows it and will trade accordingly. We will be ok as we have this number 17 guy that might help us cover up some of these defensive deficiencies by hanging 30 a game. The Pats game felt like an off night.

 

[finn]

On 10/8/2025 at 8:59 PM, Low Positive said:

This place is always bad after a loss. But this one was especially hard because of who it was to. It also didn't help that Diggs was the one who did the damage. Most of us have been waiting for the Bills to suck again for the past 6 years, and losing to the Patriots with 3 turnovers takes us right back to 2012. Losing to the Pats just feels like a regression to the mean. Those feelings will never go away unless the Bills win a Super Bowl. 

 

For what it's worth, my most depressing theory is that the killer wasn't 13 seconds. It was being unprepared to play in the 2020/2021 AFC Championship game. We were the surprise team of the season and one win from the Super Bowl. Then they came out and looked like they didn't belong. We've been chasing that tail ever sense. 

Is that the one in which McDermott kept punting on fourth down at midfield and kicking field goals, hoping his defense would stop Mahomes, which it never could (or would), instead of trusting Allen and going all out for the win? Or is it the one Allen did win the game in one of the most extraordinary feats of quarterback the league has ever seen, only for McDermott's defense to give it away in a matter of seconds? I'm sure you're not referring to last year's playoff game, when McDermott's defense gave up 32 points. 

 

Yes, the team--the defense in particular--has been unprepared to play every time they have faced KC in the playoffs (to say nothing about the loss to Cincinnati). Does anyone want to make the case that this year will be somehow different, with McDermott still in charge of preparing the defense?

[HOUSE]

The officials ruined that game, National TV and a pile of borderline penalties.  Ridiculous 

[CSBill]

What this thread reminded me off:

 

NOT!!!!

 

 

Edited 4 hours ago by CSBill

[finn]

11 hours ago, starrymessenger said:

As a league wide thing (not just the Bills), much pain and much unreasonable optimism (just ask a Ravens fan). The way things are shaking out now is hardly abnormal. I think many of us understood that the Pats game could be difficult. It was a real risk of loss even if not likely. What's important is that a team, that is any big team credibly in the running for a  championship, make the playoffs and, crucially, have its machine in gear by then. The big team that best does that will probably win.
Even now I would consider the Ravens a "big team" (assuming Lamar is soon back) and also the Chiefs. These organizations, like the Bills', are comparatively very good. I expect these teams, including the Bills, to get better as the season progresses (assuming no catastrophic injuries). Bengals chances have faded because of Burrow. I think that's unfortunate. The game is elevated by the play of its greatest players. I want to see all of them play (and beat the ones we need to beat).

A calm and accurate take, thanks for this. I don't have examples at hand, but many Super Bowls have been won with flawed teams. It's normal to lose games, even to look quite bad for stretches during the season, and still pull it together in the playoffs and win. Even without additions at CB or WR, this team will almost certainly make the playoffs and could even go all the way. But the probability is higher if Beane does make moves to shore up WR and CB. Even Allen can't do much with this mediocre WR corps, and good QBs will continue to feast on Trey White.

 

The Chiefs are looking very dangerous. This franchise cannot absorb a fifth consecutive playoff defeat to Mahomes. 

[oldmanfan]

35 minutes ago, finn said:

A calm and accurate take, thanks for this. I don't have examples at hand, but many Super Bowls have been won with flawed teams. It's normal to lose games, even to look quite bad for stretches during the season, and still pull it together in the playoffs and win. Even without additions at CB or WR, this team will almost certainly make the playoffs and could even go all the way. But the probability is higher if Beane does make moves to shore up WR and CB. Even Allen can't do much with this mediocre WR corps, and good QBs will continue to feast on Trey White.

 

The Chiefs are looking very dangerous. This franchise cannot absorb a fifth consecutive playoff defeat to Mahomes. 

The Chiefs are playing what could be the best team in the league this week.  They lose and they’re 2-4, and they haven’t looked like the same Chiefs all year.

[Billsfed1]

Not worried at all.  I’d like to see what the team looks like by the time we’ve played the Chiefs.  

 

If were near to, or at full health by then and sitting there at 7-1, you’ve got to feel pretty good about running away with the AFC in what looks like a down year for so many teams.

[JoshAllin]

It's called being spoiled, when everyones used to them winning all the time, losses feels like the end of the world to them

[finn]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

The Chiefs are playing what could be the best team in the league this week.  They lose and they’re 2-4, and they haven’t looked like the same Chiefs all year.

I have a different take. I think they've been slack, undisciplined, not hungry, not surprising after so many Super Bowl appearances. But the talent is all there, and I think they're going to get their act together, beating a banged-up Detroit team at home and so make a statement that they're back. If the Bills lose, they go into the bye with two consecutive losses and only one convincing win, despite what looked like a pretty soft schedule. Meanwhile, I think the Chiefs beat the Commanders at home, too, and of course the Raiders, also at home, so they're 5-3 playing the Bills at 5-2 (assuming they beat Carolina). They would have the "We're back!" momentum, while the Bills will have had the bye, giving them not only some rest and time to reset but also bring the reinforcements up to speed.

 

As I said elsewhere, I don't see how this year will be any different than any other year if these teams meet in the playoffs--except if the Bills get the first-round bye. That's mostly why this matchup is key.