How the Bills coaching staff is prone to fail sometimes

[BuffaloBill]

Joe Marino (Locked on Bills) in his all 22 review today said:

 

”New England just had a really good scheme defensively. ….. (in the run game) they forced a lot of single blocks…. New England made it structurally difficult on them because its like  they played a couple of different waves. They had their front, they had their second level. And then they had this like (sic) safety plan over the top where it’s almost like they didn’t even coach their players to fill backside.”

 

My point in quoting the above is the Bills put material out on tape and good coaching staffs figure it out. Reid and Spagnuolo have feasted on this in the playoffs. I get it that the Bills have to save some wrinkles for later in the season. However, a bit of self scouting might go a long way towards creating new wrinkles in what they do.

 

It seems the Bills can become very predictable and stuck.

 

Thoughts? 

[First Round Bust]

X it and O until you want...debate the schemes, play calls, reads, routes, adjustments, etc...but NE made a few esp clutch plays than we did (maye played just as good or better than Josh which is usually reserved for KC-Ravens games only, plus gonalez had a key PBU on Kinkaid on 3rd down which dened a first down and late game clock control, add Diggs having his best game in 3-4 years plus the excerssive amt of penatlies and turnovers and a starting WR  grounded for the first O series..adds up to a mere 3 point agonizing loss..

 

coulda, shouda, woulda...the McD mantra

[BillsFan130]

Ya this season I've really started to wonder about Joe Brady as It is just way too predictable and vanilla IMO. 
 

Almost to arrogant to a fault- Like it's basically : "This is our offence and this is what we are going to do, good luck stopping it".

 

At some point you need to have more scheme wins and have the other DC guessing more

Edited 13 hours ago by BillsFan130

[Yobogoya!]

26 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said:

It seems the Bills can become very predictable and stuck.

 

Thoughts? 

 

Chris Collinsworth was calling our plays before they happened. 

 

Chris. Collinsworth. 

 

If you can't disguise your intentions from that nose picker then I don't know who you're going to fool in this league. 

[Southern McButterpants]

6 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

Like it's basically : "This is our offence and this is what we are going to do, good luck stopping it".

 

This has been the problem with the defense in the playoffs.

[GoBills808]

i dont' know whether to call it arrogance or lack of vision or what

 

but we always prioritize the system or scheme or whatever you want to call it over the one piece that is un-defendable: Allen

 

just accept it and lean into it

[2003Contenders]

From an offensive coaching standpoint, I marvel at the number of times I see opposing WRs running WIDE OPEN. I know that some of that is because of how terrible our secondary has been playing, but how much of that is due to opposing OC's calling plays that allow their receivers to get so open?  Meanwhile, it is well known that we don't exactly have speed burners at the WR position. But how much of this is also due to route concepts, etc. that would best serve the qualities (or lack thereof) of each of our receivers?

[BananaB]

Bills are getting predictable on O and they don’t have a guy they can just go to and know he’s gonna win his route. 
 

Bills D has basically been the same for 8 years and right now its talent level is low. Old vets can’t make plays and McD don’t trust the young guys with the Xs and Os.  The system itself is soft so when talent level goes down it’s worse. 
 

 

[GoBills808]

10 minutes ago, 2003Contenders said:

From an offensive coaching standpoint, I marvel at the number of times I see opposing WRs running WIDE OPEN. I know that some of that is because of how terrible our secondary has been playing, but how much of that is due to opposing OC's calling plays that allow their receivers to get so open?  Meanwhile, it is well known that we don't exactly have speed burners at the WR position. But how much of this is also due to route concepts, etc. that would best serve the qualities (or lack thereof) of each of our receivers?

it's both 

 

further...if you watch teams w a bonafide threat at wideout you notice his gravity ie how the defense adjusts to that particular player. can lead to miscommunications/broken coverages that leave guys running open (not saying every wr who gets wide open is due to busted coverage, sometimes you're just in the perfect playcall, but it helps)

 

however i would say our pass concepts appear less sophisticated than other top teams, using last game as an example (and there are plenty more) there are just a lot of route combinations that dont contribute to/enhance each other...and some that just don't make sense. like allen in a 3step drop from shotgun and theres 3 verticals that nobody is even looking back for, think it was 3rd quarter pats game. kind of stuck out in my mind that play...and again how much of that is on offensive design and how much of that is due to relative talent of the pass catchers isnt totally clear 

[DrDawkinstein]

35 minutes ago, Southern McButterpants said:

This has been the problem with the defense in the playoffs.

 

Yep. Also pointed out in the past by Marino and Cover1 is the fact that most teams, when they get to the playoffs, throw in new wrinkles and adjustments, and start scheming beyond their talent. Whereas McD and the Bills just sit back and rely even heavier on "these are our players, make a play in this base scheme".

 

Which adds up given what we've seen from this team in the playoffs.

 

It's the main reason I'm on the Replace McD bandwagon.

[2003Contenders]

16 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

it's both 

 

further...if you watch teams w a bonafide threat at wideout you notice his gravity ie how the defense adjusts to that particular player. can lead to miscommunications/broken coverages that leave guys running open (not saying every wr who gets wide open is due to busted coverage, sometimes you're just in the perfect playcall, but it helps)

 

however i would say our pass concepts appear less sophisticated than other top teams, using last game as an example (and there are plenty more) there are just a lot of route combinations that dont contribute to/enhance each other...and some that just don't make sense. like allen in a 3step drop from shotgun and theres 3 verticals that nobody is even looking back for, think it was 3rd quarter pats game. kind of stuck out in my mind that play...and again how much of that is on offensive design and how much of that is due to relative talent of the pass catchers isnt totally clear 

It also seems like it just takes so lo-o-o-o-ong for our plays to develop -- and often for minimal yardage.

 

I would think that quick slants to Keon (given his size and basketball background, knowing how to box-out) would be a staple in this offense?

 

And I really do hope that the offense focuses on scramble drills this week. I am tired of seeing Josh break contain, buy 5-6 seconds -- and have no one to throw the ball to.

[Mat68]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBill said:

Joe Marino (Locked on Bills) in his all 22 review today said:

 

”New England just had a really good scheme defensively. ….. (in the run game) they forced a lot of single blocks…. New England made it structurally difficult on them because its like  they played a couple of different waves. They had their front, they had their second level. And then they had this like (sic) safety plan over the top where it’s almost like they didn’t even coach their players to fill backside.”

 

My point in quoting the above is the Bills put material out on tape and good coaching staffs figure it out. Reid and Spagnuolo have feasted on this in the playoffs. I get it that the Bills have to save some wrinkles for later in the season. However, a bit of self scouting might go a long way towards creating new wrinkles in what they do.

 

It seems the Bills can become very predictable and stuck.

 

Thoughts? 

Thats part of the game.  One of the things that I like about Brady.  Willing to call plays not that surprise the defense but ones the they execute.  That willingness leads to the Kincaid walk in Touchdown vs Miami.  Cant break tendencies if you don’t create them.    
 

The Patriots game really came down to 3 plays.  Both fumbles and redzone pick.  2 directly affected the scoreboard and I think they score on the Knox failed sweep. Thats guaranteed 6 points plus whatever comes of the Knox drive.  1 or 2 of those plays dont happen they win imo.  All three put them in the position they were.  Not saying they still didn't have chances to win they did but that is what leveled the playing field for NE.  Hidden points for them and against Buffalo.  Buffalo still outgained them and outrushed them.

 

Imo hard to attack the coaches too harshly after that game.  Brady didn't fumble the ball twice and throw a red zone pick.  Babobich wasn't the free rusher Maye rolled out to who missed the tackles.  This wasn't some crazy coaching miss match.  The offense was sloppy when the defense was stout.  They didn't make enough plays late to win it on either side of the ball. When not turning over the ball or committing penalties the offense was moving up and down the field.   

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Also pointed out in the past by Marino and Cover1 is the fact that most teams, when they get to the playoffs, throw in new wrinkles and adjustments, and start scheming beyond their talent.

 

Or even before the playoffs. The Jags have a new DC. After the game Mahomes told reporters they "got him" with the coverage on the pick six. Their tendency on film had been cover 0 blitz in that exact goalline situation, but on this play they broke tendency and had the LBs drop back after faking the rush. That tendency breaker created a 14 point swing. After the AFCCG you had multiple Bills players tell reporters that the final blitz on 4th down was something they had not seen on KC's film all season long. I certainly can't recall any opposing player saying those sorts of things about our defense. They know where our holes are and they're designing plays to exploit them because we never break tendency. Same thing happens on offense honestly, Allen and Cook and Shakir are just so talented they make some of the predictable play calls work.

[GaryPinC]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

Or even before the playoffs. The Jags have a new DC. After the game Mahomes told reporters they "got him" with the coverage on the pick six. Their tendency on film had been cover 0 blitz in that exact goalline situation, but on this play they broke tendency and had the LBs drop back after faking the rush. That tendency breaker created a 14 point swing. After the AFCCG you had multiple Bills players tell reporters that the final blitz on 4th down was something they had not seen on KC's film all season long. I certainly can't recall any opposing player saying those sorts of things about our defense. They know where our holes are and they're designing plays to exploit them because we never break tendency. Same thing happens on offense honestly, Allen and Cook and Shakir are just so talented they make some of the predictable play calls work.

💯  This is what I'm hoping for in coaching growth this year.  Haven't seen it yet though.

[Governor]

They shelved the 12 and 13 personnel version of the offense and just played a regular offense. I guess they realized that they can’t bully a bigger, more physical team, and this version of the offense just isn’t very good unless you catch a team by surprise like the Ravens game. Trouble ahead.

[MasterStrategist]

Coordinators get "figured out" in year 2.  Dorsey had this problem too.  

 

Tendencies and formation/personnel groupings are studied and analyzed at a high level.  

 

Babich has McD and Nielsen, certainly some experienced coordinators to lean into.  Injuries/suspensions, are making it difficult to assess.  Missing Ed, Milano, and they were counting on Max's speed/him to start.  Now we are likely down Milano for a decent amount of time...who knows when they will trust Max to take the field (might require an injury to Tre).

 

Brady: When you design an offense to be "efficient"/grind it out with little explosive play design, then you better not turnover the ball OR get any significant/have a  penalty problem.  We had the killer combo of both of these, which to Bradys credit, kills drives and playcalling rhythm.  Im not a fan of several things: hes too predictable, too slow to adjust his gameplan, route combinations I dislike, lack of RB use in passing game this year, and the horizontal passing game.  Coordinators sometimes get figured out in Year 2 (like Dorsey).  But I think Brady will ultimately make some scheme changes.  Keon year 2, Palmer year 1, Samuel basically missed most of last year --- then I think Shakir is still fighting thru his high ankle sprain to some degree.  

 

Get this W, and I typically hate early bye weeks -- but this works to our favor this year IMO.  Suspended guys returning to practice, hopefully Max IR practice window opened, and coaches a chance to make some changes.

Edited 7 hours ago by MasterStrategist

[Thurman#1]

11 hours ago, BuffaloBill said:

Joe Marino (Locked on Bills) in his all 22 review today said:

 

”New England just had a really good scheme defensively. ….. (in the run game) they forced a lot of single blocks…. New England made it structurally difficult on them because its like  they played a couple of different waves. They had their front, they had their second level. And then they had this like (sic) safety plan over the top where it’s almost like they didn’t even coach their players to fill backside.”

 

My point in quoting the above is the Bills put material out on tape and good coaching staffs figure it out. Reid and Spagnuolo have feasted on this in the playoffs. I get it that the Bills have to save some wrinkles for later in the season. However, a bit of self scouting might go a long way towards creating new wrinkles in what they do.

 

It seems the Bills can become very predictable and stuck.

 

Thoughts? 

 

 

While it's true, it's true of every team.

 

Every team does things differently. The ones that are successful put out a lot of stuff on tape. Eventually good teams figure it out. This is true of EVERY TEAM. EVERY TIME.

 

What then comes about is whether the team can adapt to the tactics that are successful against them. The Bills have been through this dozens of times. They've been pretty damn successful adapting, though at times it took them some time (going from Dorsey to Brady took some time, for instance). But successful.

 

I think they'll adapt. No way to be sure till it happens. But that's the likelihood.

[Thurman#1]

10 hours ago, Yobogoya! said:

 

Chris Collinsworth was calling our plays before they happened. 

 

Chris. Collinsworth. 

 

If you can't disguise your intentions from that nose picker then I don't know who you're going to fool in this league. 

 

 

Collinsworth is very intelligent. And has access to all of the work on tendencies work that PFF does on our team and all of them as he's part-owner of the company.

 

What Collinsworth said that was interesting and useful was the stuff about running 70% of the time when you were under center and passing 70% of the time when in shotgun.

 

That's not calling the plays, dude. It's sharing a tendency, a statistic. The Bills have undoubtedly known that tendency themselves. And the offense has been WILDLY successful despite it. The Pats took advantage. So at this point the Bills now have to make themselves a bit more unpredictable. 

 

On the other hand, that was far from the main problem. Much bigger was what they did with their pass coverages. They were doing some really nice schematic things to confuse Allen. They threw in some really complex stuff. That was confusing Josh, slowing his processing down. 

 

Now teams have an idea, from watching the tape, about what we tend to do.

 

Equally, though, we now have some tape on what the Pats did and what teams are likely to try to slow Josh down. We will use that tape just as defenses are using ours.