Excellent article on Vikings and Darnold decison (Athletic; paywalled)

[dave mcbride]

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6677047/2025/10/02/jj-mccarthy-sam-darnold-vikings-seahawks/
 

A sample:

 

‘When the Vikings were winning with Darnold last season, I asked a veteran coach to watch the Vikings' offense in hopes of learning just how well Darnold was playing. The coach thought there was a big gap between Darnold's impressive 2024 stats and how well he was actually playing for Minnesota. We found relatively few high-level plays in the games we watched.

 

That same coach could not believe he was watching the same quarterback when he flipped through the Seahawks' offensive plays with Darnold this season.

 

"The whole thing was Tier 1," this coach said. "No one we know is throwing better than that."

 

Play after play showed Darnold delivering the ball accurately and with nuance, including against the rush.

 

"He used to be jittery in there," the coach said. "Now, he stands in there and looks down the barrel. A couple times, he jumped and threw like (Aaron) Rodgers does. He dropped to three-quarters (delivery)."

 

Was this really the same player?

 

"The deep ball has been accurate, making sure they can catch the ball and assuring the yardage," the coach said. "He's throwing it correctly into the short zones to keep his guys alive, which is interesting. He is leading receivers away from the hook defender, making the guy slide on the digs. He's way better. I'm so impressed."’

 

[boyst]

Darnold and many other QB's in today's game are a testiment to the much needed slower development of the position. Geno Smith, Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield, Sam Bradford all came out with highly touted opportunities. That's because they had the tools. They just didn't translate fast enough to the NFL like others or more importantly have the system or coaching to make the faster jump like Kermit Mahomes, Tissue Jackson, or Glass Burrow.

 

The work ethic of the individual matters, as well. Players like Drinky Manziel or PlayStation Murray don't put the effort in because they've relied on their natural abilities over their time earned fostered ability.

 

My hat will always be off to the player who continues to develop their game and find success. There are many who have done that including cheaters from ichigan or the other ichigan QB McCarthy 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

35 minutes ago, boyst said:

Darnold and many other QB's in today's game are a testiment to the much needed slower development of the position. Geno Smith, Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield, Sam Bradford all came out with highly touted opportunities. That's because they had the tools. They just didn't translate fast enough to the NFL like others or more importantly have the system or coaching to make the faster jump like Kermit Mahomes, Tissue Jackson, or Glass Burrow.

 

The work ethic of the individual matters, as well. Players like Drinky Manziel or PlayStation Murray don't put the effort in because they've relied on their natural abilities over their time earned fostered ability.

 

My hat will always be off to the player who continues to develop their game and find success. There are many who have done that including cheaters from ichigan or the other ichigan QB McCarthy 

 

There was an entire article a couple weeks back also in the Athletic about how QB's are mostly all being ruined today by getting them out there way to fast.  But the coaches job is on the line so it's done, repeatedly.

 

Recall years back my thought was that seemed like some of the better QB's in NFLK came from small schools as they didn't have 10 All Americans surrounding them. 

 

Hmmmmm.  Do All Americans still exist or am I dating myself??

[boyst]

Just now, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

There was an entire article a couple weeks back also in the Athletic about how QB's are mostly all being ruined today by getting them out there way to fast.  But the coaches job is on the line so it's done, repeatedly.

 

Recall years back my thought was that seemed like some of the better QB's in NFLK came from small schools as they didn't have 10 All Americans surrounding them. 

 

Hmmmmm.  Do All Americans still exist or am I dating myself??

That is a good point, and I'm thinking of Tony Romo for example. There were a couple more that escaped my mind right now that started from small schools with a lot less pressure. 

 

Thinking back to Bill Walsh who redshirted all of the quarterbacks and players on his team it's also relevant. I think that with the Nil deals we're going to have more issues than we should unfair development. Players are becoming more absorbed into their own identity and name that they are with the team. And my personal opinion that it's disgusting, football's a team sport. If you want to be an individual go play an individual sport or soccer.

[Sierra Foothills]

27 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

There was an entire article a couple weeks back also in the Athletic about how QB's are mostly all being ruined today by getting them out there way to fast.  But the coaches job is on the line so it's done, repeatedly.

 

Recall years back my thought was that seemed like some of the better QB's in NFLK came from small schools as they didn't have 10 All Americans surrounding them. 

 

Fast forwarding to this year, I think that the Giants and the Browns waited as long as they could before going to the rookie QBs.

 

[Beck Water]

3 hours ago, boyst said:

Darnold and many other QB's in today's game are a testiment to the much needed slower development of the position. Geno Smith, Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield, Sam Bradford all came out with highly touted opportunities. That's because they had the tools. They just didn't translate fast enough to the NFL like others or more importantly have the system or coaching to make the faster jump like Kermit Mahomes, Tissue Jackson, or Glass Burrow.

 

The work ethic of the individual matters, as well. Players like Drinky Manziel or PlayStation Murray don't put the effort in because they've relied on their natural abilities over their time earned fostered ability.

 

My hat will always be off to the player who continues to develop their game and find success. There are many who have done that including cheaters from ichigan or the other ichigan QB McCarthy 

 

I think there is a factor of some QB coming out thought they had arrived.  Mayfield and Darnold had a pretty gold-plated trip from college to the pro's.   Like gold, they were expected to shine right away.

 

It may have affected the work they put in off-season and the fact that they needed to bounce around to several teams and "get the memo" that more work was needed.

 

Allen, on the other hand, came out to a chorus of "boos" from the pundits and the knowledge that he had to improve if he was going to make it.

 

I think that also affected the work he put in off-season.

Edited 16 hours ago by Beck Water

[djp14150]

3 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6677047/2025/10/02/jj-mccarthy-sam-darnold-vikings-seahawks/
 

A sample:

 

‘When the Vikings were winning with Darnold last season, I asked a veteran coach to watch the Vikings' offense in hopes of learning just how well Darnold was playing. The coach thought there was a big gap between Darnold's impressive 2024 stats and how well he was actually playing for Minnesota. We found relatively few high-level plays in the games we watched.

 

That same coach could not believe he was watching the same quarterback when he flipped through the Seahawks' offensive plays with Darnold this season.

 

"The whole thing was Tier 1," this coach said. "No one we know is throwing better than that."

 

Play after play showed Darnold delivering the ball accurately and with nuance, including against the rush.

 

"He used to be jittery in there," the coach said. "Now, he stands in there and looks down the barrel. A couple times, he jumped and threw like (Aaron) Rodgers does. He dropped to three-quarters (delivery)."

 

Was this really the same player?

 

"The deep ball has been accurate, making sure they can catch the ball and assuring the yardage," the coach said. "He's throwing it correctly into the short zones to keep his guys alive, which is interesting. He is leading receivers away from the hook defender, making the guy slide on the digs. He's way better. I'm so impressed."’

 

 

they drafted a QB not knowing how Darnold would even be.on the Vikings.  Then McCarthy got injured/ lossy for the season.

 

THRY WERE ALSO 9-1 in one score games.  If you have 10 most teams get 4-6 wins.  Thsts an outlier

 

they also had a weaker schedule getting the afc south and nfc west and lower positional opponents.

 

the concern around Darnold has been arm strength/ throwing in cold/ windy conditions .

 

the bigger surprise has been in Indy.

[DCofNC]

1 hour ago, djp14150 said:

 

they drafted a QB not knowing how Darnold would even be.on the Vikings.  Then McCarthy got injured/ lossy for the season.

 

THRY WERE ALSO 9-1 in one score games.  If you have 10 most teams get 4-6 wins.  Thsts an outlier

 

they also had a weaker schedule getting the afc south and nfc west and lower positional opponents.

 

the concern around Darnold has been arm strength/ throwing in cold/ windy conditions .

 

the bigger surprise has been in Indy.

Indy is exactly what Darnold was last year.. perfect storm, but more luck than anything.

[Dan Darragh]

4 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

"He is leading receivers away from the hook defender, making the guy slide on the digs."

 

It's hard to believe that I've been watching this sport for 60 years and I have no idea what he's talking about.

[The Wiz]

4 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

There was an entire article a couple weeks back also in the Athletic about how QB's are mostly all being ruined today by getting them out there way to fast.  But the coaches job is on the line so it's done, repeatedly.

 

Recall years back my thought was that seemed like some of the better QB's in NFLK came from small schools as they didn't have 10 All Americans surrounding them. 

 

Hmmmmm.  Do All Americans still exist or am I dating myself??

Funny enough, "all American" teams/players do still exist, it just doesn't matter anymore.

Edited 14 hours ago by The Wiz

[Chaos]

This guy Josh Allen was rushed into starting 11 games his rookie year.  He seems to be developing fine despite the rush.  I am certain analysis would show that the majority of the highly successful QBs started their rookie seasons.  The "coaches" who are hanging on to "QBs are rushed", are the kind of guys who Billy Beane fired on the Athletics, because despite their massive confidence and long experience, they were simply wrong. 

[stuvian]

So you're saying Josh Rosen still has a chance...

[Pecker]

2 hours ago, Dan Darragh said:

It's hard to believe that I've been watching this sport for 60 years and I have no idea what he's talking about.

Hook defender would be the CB who is covering the WR on a (button) hook route (sometimes called a curl).  If the defender is on the right side of the WR, the QB should throw it to the left side of the WR - ie away from the defender.

 

a Dig route is like a deep in.  Say 12-15 yards.  It’s a dangerous throw over the middle so, a qb might throw the ball low, so his WR has to slide to catch it, and this not get smashed.  
 

The quote was talking about the awareness and accuracy of Darnold reaching another level.

[Dan Darragh]

1 hour ago, ***** said:

Hook defender would be the CB who is covering the WR on a (button) hook route (sometimes called a curl).  If the defender is on the right side of the WR, the QB should throw it to the left side of the WR - ie away from the defender.

 

a Dig route is like a deep in.  Say 12-15 yards.  It’s a dangerous throw over the middle so, a qb might throw the ball low, so his WR has to slide to catch it, and this not get smashed.  
 

The quote was talking about the awareness and accuracy of Darnold reaching another level.

Thanks?

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

10 hours ago, boyst said:

That is a good point, and I'm thinking of Tony Romo for example. There were a couple more that escaped my mind right now that started from small schools with a lot less pressure. 

 

Thinking back to Bill Walsh who redshirted all of the quarterbacks and players on his team it's also relevant. I think that with the Nil deals we're going to have more issues than we should unfair development. Players are becoming more absorbed into their own identity and name that they are with the team. And my personal opinion that it's disgusting, football's a team sport. If you want to be an individual go play an individual sport or soccer.

 

One name from a long time ago from a small school was Phil Simms

 

Was watching one of the post game shows today and the commentator was talking about Penn State struggles practically with passing and his exact words were "Penn St has paid a lot for these WR's!"  The absurdity of a statement like that is wild, but it's the era we now are in.

 

 

10 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

Fast forwarding to this year, I think that the Giants and the Browns waited as long as they could before going to the rookie QBs.

 

 

Waited as long as the could for the sake of the coaches jobs or for the good of the player?

Edited 8 hours ago by Ed_Formerly_of_Roch

[Chicken Boo]

Going into this season, I did not think for 1 second that Darnold would be having the year that he is.

 

I really thought he was just a product of all the weapons at his disposal in Minnesota.  

[MJS]

Well, there were games for the Vikings where he was really good and made really impressive throws, so I don't think it is accurate to say that he didn't have any high level plays. The way he is playing now was always in him. Even going back to his first couple of years with the Jets, he had impressive plays and even full games. His problem was always consistency and making bone headed decisions in stressful situations. He has always had all the tools, though.

[Sierra Foothills]

45 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

Waited as long as the could for the sake of the coaches jobs or for the good of the player?

 

I thought both coaches were patient and balanced the interests of the team, the quarterback, and themselves perfectly.

 

Edited 7 hours ago by Sierra Foothills

[Sojourner]

5 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

Going into this season, I did not think for 1 second that Darnold would be having the year that he is.

 

I really thought he was just a product of all the weapons at his disposal in Minnesota.  

Seattle isn’t devoid of talent. Decent running game and a stud WR in JSN. Not as talented as Minnesota, sure. But there’s complimentary pieces he can lean on to get the job done. 

Not doubting him but he’ll be middle of the pack in the league when the year is over. 

Still credit is due. He’s turned his career around from the looks of it.