The Ray Davis-backup running back discussion

[Alphadawg7]

29 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said:

Agree that it is hard to judge RB when he gets random touch here and there. It seems that it applies to Davis as well. Last year he started one game vs Jets when Cook was down, and he was really good once he got some flow.

 

But like Gunner said, if he needs flow more that some other backup RBs, then we need someone else, since he will never get consistently going behind Cook.

 

Ask any RB, coach, OL Coach, etc - and they will tell you the same thing, playing RB is about rhythm and feel.  To come in cold for one snap and leave the field is a really tall ask, especially when its usually on an obvious running situation.  

 

29 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said:

 

And I disagree about him not missing holes. I watches All22 of two games. In Baltimore game he missed one hole early, and after that was doing fine. In Saints game he had 2&4 during that infamous drive, and to my eye he missed the hole between McGovern and Cybo and went to the right. I'd say it's a first down if he just went through that hole.

 

I have not had time to watch the ALL22 myself, I am going off what I have seen other people post on this subject when they are posting lots of plays showing he had no where to go from their review of the ALL22.  So I am sure I have not seen every play, and will just trust your review of those plays and assume he missed an opportunity on those 2 plays - but couple points here on this:

1. I didn't see the 2 plays on ALL22 you referenced, but as a general note:  Just because there was a hole somewhere does not always mean that is where the play was designed to go.  There isn't a RB in the NFL you cant watch the ALL22 on that you won't find the same thing for.  Sometimes its they broke off the designed run and made a bad decisions, other times, they are going right at where the hole is supposed to be and isn't.
2. This also leads right back to my point above.  RB position is instinctual, especially when popping out of where it was going to go to hit another hole elsewhere.  When you are coming in cold, short yardage, thinking about ball control and just hitting the hole hard then it becomes hard to also rely on those instincts.  Football players of all calibers (even Josh Allen) talk about how getting that first hit, contact, etc wakes them up, gets the blood going, etc. 

I am not here to make excuses for Davis, but I saw a lot of plays where he had no chance on some guys social media post where he discussed the criticism of Davis and if its fair.  Doesn't mean there were not some plays he could have done more or not, just means that most of his lack of success this year has been due to low sample size and really no where to go with the ball on most his carries.  

 

For me, that makes a lot more sense than some of the theories that his struggles are because he lost 15 pounds.

[HamptonBillsfan]

Ray Davis has not performed like a reasonable backup for Jimbo. Thankfully Brady has prioritized more touches for Cook and you see the results. By the way, what’s wrong with Johnson? He’s had more drops than all of last season. If we’re going to make strides with our offense, because the O-line seems fine when Cooks explodes for big splashy runs, these other RBs in the unit have to show up. Do you remember the clueless posters who said “dump Cook and just insert Davis and Johnson and we won’t take a step backwards”

[Captain Hindsight]

6 hours ago, T.E. said:

Maybe I'm misremembering last season, but Davis somehow also seemed more explosive when he was heavier.

Might taco will do that to ya 

[transplantbillsfan]

5 hours ago, Charles Romes said:

He’s also called out Gore’s historically low 0.6 RAS score. Might as well throw him out there, watch him get swallowed up by the 1s 2-4 times and find someone else for the PS.  

 

Some players are gamers.  He wouldn't be our #1 back.  He'd be our short yardage back.  Maybe he has better instincts than Davis, which could help more in those short yardage situations.

[I'm Spartacus]

18 hours ago, TBBills Fan said:

Does Ray look like the same guy he was last year to you?  He is the one who said he changed up his body type to become "more elusive or dynamic" or whatever it was he said exactly. 

I didn't hear Davis' direct quote on this, but maybe he mentioned it. However, there is no way any player can just decide to drop weight without permission or consultation with the coaches and strength and conditioning staff. I'm sure every player has an off season nutritional and conditioning regimen dictated by the coaches with a plan in mind for the following season.

[zow2]

Davis has been a massive disappointment, he's just done nothing when given some carries.  The Bills have an excellent Oline.  It may not be perfect but it's about as good as you can assemble nowadays.   All the RB's should be successful behind this Oline and Ty needs to not drop the easy passes we know he can catch.

[GunnerBill]

14 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Ask any RB, coach, OL Coach, etc - and they will tell you the same thing, playing RB is about rhythm and feel.  To come in cold for one snap and leave the field is a really tall ask, especially when its usually on an obvious running situation.  

 

 

I have not had time to watch the ALL22 myself, I am going off what I have seen other people post on this subject when they are posting lots of plays showing he had no where to go from their review of the ALL22.  So I am sure I have not seen every play, and will just trust your review of those plays and assume he missed an opportunity on those 2 plays - but couple points here on this:

1. I didn't see the 2 plays on ALL22 you referenced, but as a general note:  Just because there was a hole somewhere does not always mean that is where the play was designed to go.  There isn't a RB in the NFL you cant watch the ALL22 on that you won't find the same thing for.  Sometimes its they broke off the designed run and made a bad decisions, other times, they are going right at where the hole is supposed to be and isn't.
2. This also leads right back to my point above.  RB position is instinctual, especially when popping out of where it was going to go to hit another hole elsewhere.  When you are coming in cold, short yardage, thinking about ball control and just hitting the hole hard then it becomes hard to also rely on those instincts.  Football players of all calibers (even Josh Allen) talk about how getting that first hit, contact, etc wakes them up, gets the blood going, etc. 

I am not here to make excuses for Davis, but I saw a lot of plays where he had no chance on some guys social media post where he discussed the criticism of Davis and if its fair.  Doesn't mean there were not some plays he could have done more or not, just means that most of his lack of success this year has been due to low sample size and really no where to go with the ball on most his carries.  

 

For me, that makes a lot more sense than some of the theories that his struggles are because he lost 15 pounds.

 

I just don't think Davis has the vision that Cook has. I know not everyone on this board agrees but it is to me the #1 attribute for a running back in the NFL. James Cook has elite vision. Jonathan Taylor has elite vision. Saquon Barkley has elite vision. Derrick Henry a bit less so but he is something of a unicorn anyway. In a world where offensive linemen are generally lighter and more mobile than in the past you don't get as many pure roadgrading offensive lines that just blow people off the ball so running backs who see gaps as soon as they appear and can scamper through them before they close up again are increasingly valuable. I didn't love Davis's vision in college and I think he has missed too many gaps in the NFL too. Do I accept it is hard to get to the speed of how quickly you need to recognise gaps before they close if you are getting fewer than 5 touches a game? Sure. But I don't think it is a strength to start with. 

[zow2]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I just don't think Davis has the vision that Cook has. I know not everyone on this board agrees but it is to me the #1 attribute for a running back in the NFL. James Cook has elite vision. Jonathan Taylor has elite vision. Saquon Barkley has elite vision. Derrick Henry a bit less so but he is something of a unicorn anyway. In a world where offensive linemen are generally lighter and more mobile than in the past you don't get as many pure roadgrading offensive lines that just blow people off the ball so running backs who see gaps as soon as they appear and can scamper through them before they close up again are increasingly valuable. I didn't love Davis's vision in college and I think he has missed too many gaps in the NFL too. Do I accept it is hard to get to the speed of how quickly you need to recognise gaps before they close if you are getting fewer than 5 touches a game? Sure. But I don't think it is a strength to start with. 

 

Cook definitely makes people miss in tight amongst the giant guys... his little jump cuts in there, then he bolts.  It's great stuff. 

 

I'm telling ya, Ray is going to get 10 touches vs the Patriots.  Brady has already said this week that Cook is being over-used.  I'm rooting for Davis but if he can't get a couple chunk runs in there I would be making Ty the primary backup and start thinking about Gore Jr.   The only issue with him is that Frank fumbled in a preseason game and McDermott will not let that slide.  He won't trust Gore for a while.

[billsfan89]

Davis looks ineffective, Ty looks OK, but Ty last year went through spells where he was less than impactful and then every 4-5 games would pop off a big game. Davis on the other hand was always a consistently decent backup when called up. This year I wouldn't say he looks "shot" but he looks a lot less impactful. I know Cook is cooking but this team needs to find a way to keep Cook's touches down in the early going to preserve him for the post-season. And if Davis is not cutting it and Ty's a role player I am not sure what the Bills do at RB? A little too early to panic, lets see how the next two games play out.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

30 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I just don't think Davis has the vision that Cook has. I know not everyone on this board agrees but it is to me the #1 attribute for a running back in the NFL. James Cook has elite vision. Jonathan Taylor has elite vision. Saquon Barkley has elite vision. Derrick Henry a bit less so but he is something of a unicorn anyway. In a world where offensive linemen are generally lighter and more mobile than in the past you don't get as many pure roadgrading offensive lines that just blow people off the ball so running backs who see gaps as soon as they appear and can scamper through them before they close up again are increasingly valuable. I didn't love Davis's vision in college and I think he has missed too many gaps in the NFL too. Do I accept it is hard to get to the speed of how quickly you need to recognise gaps before they close if you are getting fewer than 5 touches a game? Sure. But I don't think it is a strength to start with. 

Vision is by far #1. Thurman had it. OJ and Cribbs had it. Henry had it. Shady had it. We have really been fortunate to see some of the great running backs in NFL history. 

 

On the flip side, Spiller had zero vision. He had all the physical ability just was a terrible running back. 

[BuffaloRebound]

The head injury Davis suffered in the Denver playoff game was scary.  Some guys don’t fully recover from hits like that.  Sounds like he lost weight to become more elusive and possibly avoid hits like that. He hasn’t looked NFL roster worthy post injury and weight loss.  

Edited October 3 by BuffaloRebound

[TheBrownBear]

23 hours ago, Magox said:

He and Ty Johnson have definitely not looked as good so far, but I think that is primarily due to a lack of snaps and in preseason there really weren't many holes.   I do think that he and Ty look more hesitant, I wouldn't give up on them yet.

Davis and Ty Johnson look like they are running through quicksand. Is the offensive line as good as we think (asking honestly - I'm not a watch the tape guy) or does Cook and Allen's greatness mask their deficiencies?

[TheBrownBear]

22 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

So based on 11 carries for the year and 8 of them came in the Jets game, likely in the 4th quarter playing with all other backups, you can figure all this out that he's no good?? 

 

 

Not ready to kick him to the curb yet, but he also looked poor in the preseason and camp compared to Gore. His regular season stats (2.6 ypc) mirror his preseason stats (1.71 ypc).  He was at 4.6 (PS) and 3.9 (RS) as a rookie.  All signs point towards a regression.

[3rdand12]

On 10/2/2025 at 1:27 PM, TBBills Fan said:

That's right. Ty can produce if given a random few plays here or there

 

Davis could last year as well. 

 

Why can't Davis do it this year....so far?

That's fair. Patience was never my strong suit. But if it continues, is that going to be our only course of action?

As I mentioned, I don't think he has gotten enough reps or perhaps a series behind the O line this year. Bills wont take Cook off the field !

 But they will have to mix Ty and Davis is more , and sooner the better.

Will leave that call to McBrady 🙂

 No way Bills have lost confidence in either. But as some mentioned , that weight change may have effected his play too

 

[3rdand12]

10 hours ago, zow2 said:

Davis has been a massive disappointment, he's just done nothing when given some carries.  The Bills have an excellent Oline.  It may not be perfect but it's about as good as you can assemble nowadays.   All the RB's should be successful behind this Oline and Ty needs to not drop the easy passes we know he can catch.

Harshing on the dude aren't we ? lol

 Don't feel they are trying for a two headed  / or 3 even , monster just yet from those guys. Been grinding with Gilliam and Hawes with Cook looking Beast

Expect Bills will change it up as games go on.

 

[TBBills Fan]

14 hours ago, 3rdand12 said:

As I mentioned, I don't think he has gotten enough reps or perhaps a series behind the O line this year. Bills wont take Cook off the field !

 But they will have to mix Ty and Davis is more , and sooner the better.

Will leave that call to McBrady 🙂

 No way Bills have lost confidence in either. But as some mentioned , that weight change may have effected his play too

 

I agree with you, we do need to mix them in a little more. 

 

Maybe Ray hasn't been given enough reps, but it's like nature vs nurture argument to me.  I don't think it has to be one or the other.  If Ray was looking good they would have given more reps and because Cook looks so damn good they see bo reason to

 

That said, they seem like they want to moderate Cook a little better because there are no trophies for winning in September and the goal is a win in February

[3rdand12]

3 hours ago, TBBills Fan said:

I agree with you, we do need to mix them in a little more. 

 

Maybe Ray hasn't been given enough reps, but it's like nature vs nurture argument to me.  I don't think it has to be one or the other.  If Ray was looking good they would have given more reps and because Cook looks so damn good they see bo reason to

 

That said, they seem like they want to moderate Cook a little better because there are no trophies for winning in September and the goal is a win in February

Fair take.

 He needs to make his own path to get on the field more. When he gets his reps. make the most of them. he has not so far imho

[henry jones]

Maybe this was already mentioned so I apologize if it was… but Cook has been on the field a lot more than in years past.  No doubt because he’s asked to be since he has a new contract.  The RB position has a lot to do with rhythm and feel.  When Ty and Ray have seen the field, it seems like obvious running situations or as a decoy.  Kinda hard to build a rhythm when you’re only getting a couple touches a game.  

[zow2]

Ray Davis- I'm just about done with this guy.  No juice whatsoever and it's clear Brady doesn't trust him.  Brady made comments last week how he needs to work in Davis and Ty more...but he gets caught up in playing the hot hand.   And last night Ray gets two carries and Ty gets two (one nice run called back due to penalty).

 

If you watch NFL games around the league you see other secondary RB's getting work and making plays.  I don't know what happened to the running back room outside of Cook?

[dorquemada]

1 minute ago, zow2 said:

Ray Davis- I'm just about done with this guy.  No juice whatsoever and it's clear Brady doesn't trust him.  Brady made comments last week how he needs to work in Davis and Ty more...but he gets caught up in playing the hot hand.   And last night Ray gets two carries and Ty gets two (one nice run called back due to penalty).

 

If you watch NFL games around the league you see other secondary RB's getting work and making plays.  I don't know what happened to the running back room outside of Cook?

 

It's insufficiently gimmicky for Brady to invest in