Bills Defense, will it get better as season goes on

[Mister Defense]

3 minutes ago, Mark80 said:

This is dumb.  The Jets had 154 yards.  The Dolphins had 276 yards.  They had 10 and 21 points respectively.  The defense came up with big stops and a turnover at the end of the Ravens game to allow the comeback.  We are down 2 starting DTs, a starting CB, a starting LB.  This is dumb.

 

I agree that, despite most of the Ravens' game, and some against the squished Thursday, they seem to be a better defense.  I don't think the concerns are dumb, but think it is definitely a glass is half empty take, and for some, the last drops in the glass. That seems to contradict what we have seen, and know, overall.

 

And the fact that they had a bunch of players not playing Thursday, who hopefully will be there in December, and young players ascending, learning, I believe there will be a 'consensus' that this defense in much improved by that time.

 

It doesn't have to be a great defense, or even very good, by the end of the year--just good.  And consistently improving. I think that will be enough to beat the Chargers, Ravens, Broncos...Eagles, Rams..?

 

 

 

[billsfan89]

1 minute ago, Mark Vader said:

The fans were thrilled when we signed Micah Hyde. It was Jordan Poyer that fans were underwhelmed with.

 

People keep mixing this up. Hyde was loved as a signing. The Bills in Rex's last year in 2016 had major issues at safety and Hyde was one of (if not the biggest) safety contracts signed that off-season. Poyer was on the other hand a relative unknown given a fairly sizable deal for a player with his relative inexperience and people (myself included) were like who the hell is this guy and why is he getting a a 4 year deal for over 3 million a year with 7.6 million in guarantees? I was very happy to be wrong on that one, McD knew what he had in Po. 

 

Hyde however, was on many people's "wish lists" going into that off-season given the major need at safety. 

[Chicharito]

I for one always complained about our soft zone defense and how good teams pick us apart in it. Then I watch the last couple of games and get even more concerned how our DB’s get torched in man. Unless we can come up with a consistent pressure on quarterbacks we are in for a long ride.

[Mark Vader]

2 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

People keep mixing this up. Hyde was loved as a signing. The Bills in Rex's last year in 2016 had major issues at safety and Hyde was one of (if not the biggest) safety contracts signed that off-season. Poyer was on the other hand a relative unknown given a fairly sizable deal for a player with his relative inexperience and people (myself included) were like who the hell is this guy and why is he getting a a 4 year deal for over 3 million a year with 7.6 million in guarantees? I was very happy to be wrong on that one, McD knew what he had in Po. 

 

Hyde however, was on many people's "wish lists" going into that off-season given the major need at safety. 

I knew who Poyer was, and that he had a serious injury with Cleveland. I'd seen him play a few times and thought he was decent, but could not believe the contract we gave him.

I was very wrong about him.

[warrior9]

30 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Carter isn't seeing the field this season. 

 

44 minutes ago, Charles Romes said:

Carter?  He’s out for the year and was trending toward being bust before the injury 

I think/ hope he's referring to Walker? 

[Alphadawg7]

2 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

The fans were thrilled when we signed Micah Hyde. It was Jordan Poyer that fans were underwhelmed with.

 

 

 

I don't disagree, there was more interest with Micah than Poyer for sure, I know I was more excited about Micah and didn't think much about the Poyer signing.  But I also think for a lot of people that was more a function of what we paid Micah than it was that people knew a lot about him to actually be excited.

 

On the opposite side, there were people less enthused given he was making a position switch (NCB to FS), and in his last year in GB he only started 11 of the 16 games he played in despite entering the season as the starter.  Not to mention, GB (despite having a need for him) not only let him leave, they didn't even offer him a contract to try and keep him.  And that created a lot of questions around here that if he was so good why didn't GB even attempt to keep him.  

[GunnerBill]

I am a bit of a downer on this defense. I think if Hairston can get healthy and be an impact guy and we can get more of the best version of Joey Bosa, and Michael Hoecht can add something and we can get and keep Ed Oliver healthy then maybe it turns a corner. 

 

But I dunno. I just don't feel like this group has the talent of a top defense.

[GASabresIUFan]

Assuming continued health by the current defenders, adding Hoecht, Hairston, Milano and Oliver (and to a lesser extent Ogunjobi) over the next 4 weeks to this defense will make an incredible positive difference, especially against the run and adding speed to the secondary.

Edited September 22 by GASabresIUFan

[Bob in STL]

It should improve with the addition of the DL help - Hoecht and Oliver back.  

 

I am not sure about CB, Hairston will need time.   

 

The Safeties are a big question mark.  

Edited September 22 by Bob in STL

[Returntoglory]

YES, the "D" will definitely get better, and become elite!

[Boatdrinks]

I think the Bills defense will improve as the season progresses. I don’t believe it will finish as a top 10 unit or anything but there will be significant improvement. 

[Alphadawg7]

17 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I am a bit of a downer on this defense. I think if Hairston can get healthy and be an impact guy and we can get more of the best version of Joey Bosa, and Michael Hoecht can add something and we can get and keep Ed Oliver healthy then maybe it turns a corner. 

 

But I dunno. I just don't feel like this group has the talent of a top defense.

 

Fair concerns - and honestly health is going to be a key issue and something that has been a real significant issue in all 3 of our last losses to KC.  Not having Tre in the 13 second game was massive.  2 years ago stuck with the Ghost of Von Miller coming back from an ACL tear and having no LB's and starting guys recently off their couch was a major issue that game as KC just attacked the LB spot all game long with ease.  Last year, Elam having to come into the game was immediately exploited and played a major role in our loss.  

 

I don't know if they have the ability to be a top defense, but the question is more will this unit improve.  And I think guys like TJ and Walker likely get better as the season progresses just getting more experience, and Walker is already showing the ability to make some impact plays.  But even just based on getting back Oliver, Milano, Hairston and our 2 guys on suspension (especially Hoecht) we should see this unit improve.  Keeping them healthy and on the field though is going to be key come the post season.  

 

There is one thing that I am concerned about though, is we may not really know what this defense can or can't be (even if healthy) until that pivotal game in the postseason.  There are not a lot of "big" tests on our regular season schedule.  KC and TB are the ones that stand out, and KC isn't the same offensive team in the regular season and probably taking a step back this year, and TB while very good isn't as dangerous or explosive as the Ravens offense we faced.  We do play the Eagles late, but we might legit have the 1 seed already locked up by then.  So we run the risk of getting a bit of fools gold syndrome through a somewhat cushy schedule and not truly see this defense really tested until that game we need them to handle their business.  

[billsfan89]

12 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

I think the Bills defense will improve as the season progresses. I don’t believe it will finish as a top 10 unit or anything but there will be significant improvement. 

 

The Bills defense ranked 17th last year. In order for it to be "significant" improvement I would say that it would probably need to be pushing top 10 defense to hit that criteria. I don't think going from 17th to 14th is really that significant. I think you would have to hit 12-10 for it to be really considered significant improvement. I think that's likely going to happen for this defense. I think they will finish just inside or outside the top 10.

[billsfan714]

35 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I am a bit of a downer on this defense. I think if Hairston can get healthy and be an impact guy and we can get more of the best version of Joey Bosa, and Michael Hoecht can add something and we can get and keep Ed Oliver healthy then maybe it turns a corner. 

 

But I dunno. I just don't feel like this group has the talent of a top defense.

Exactly where Im at.   We're a SB offense with a middle of the pack defense that will struggle in the playoffs to hold the elite teams to under 30.

[Boatdrinks]

2 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

The Bills defense ranked 17th last year. In order for it to be "significant" improvement I would say that it would probably need to be pushing top 10 defense to hit that criteria. I don't think going from 17th to 14th is really that significant. I think you would have to hit 12-10 for it to be really considered significant improvement. I think that's likely going to happen for this defense. I think they will finish just inside or outside the top 10.

If using last years final ranking then yes, that makes sense. I took the question to mean will it improve from the first games or “ now” through the end of this season. The question wasn’t asked in say, June. I’m not even sure where the Bills defense stands now as far as rankings go, but it’s safe to say most fans have concerns. I think this is more than just about defensive rankings anyway. The Bills defense has failed in the playoffs even when they were highly ranked statistically. 

[BillsShredder83]

2 hours ago, North Buffalo said:

I am obviously concerned... but after next week Bills get  at least one D lineman back from suspension... Carter is growing, Oliver may be back too... Will Harrison return soon... and will safeties improve, which imo is about communicating... linebacker situation seems steady if not spectacular.  Need to improve by end of the season though... Thoughts?

I think Cole Bishop really solidifies himself on the back stretch of this season... McD's defense is tough to learn.  His mistakes have looked like processing the field slowly, hes got all the physical talent in the world.  I think we're a damn good team at filtering players that have high on-field IQ.  At minimum we get very good floors out of players in secondary by doing this.  

 

...yes, I know theirs a player that didnt meet that^^^, horse been beat to death, plenty of other examples reflect my theory.  Dallas-player's tenure here was weird all around, from day 1.  

 

We dont need elite play back there, (especially as this DL and the rookies shape up) elite play is certainly welcome, but anything from 'Average-Above Average', is good enough to get the job done.

[PoundingDog]

We've seen the best of Oliver. We've seen probably the best Bosa can give us. Rousseau is what he is. DaQuan is given over extended playing time - I call it unsustainable reps for the entire season. What do we have on DLine, the key area of defensive improvement in 2025?

 

So the hope is the PED guys as well as banking on the improvement of Walker and Sanders (both got fair size of playing time). I'm not going to comment on Hoecht, in theory he should but no one knows if he's the same guy without taking PED. I do think improvement of Walker and Sanders can be expected, especially during the bye week when they get a break from game week preparation and look back on what they learned and focus on are for improvement. Not big jumps but it is relatively easy for D-Line to get to used what to look for keys across the O-Linemen in front of you. 

 

Backend, you hope for Bishop to gain more confidence and be more decisive in triggering his action. I do believe for CB2 they will rotate in Hairston once he's ready to play. 

[GunnerBill]

29 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Fair concerns - and honestly health is going to be a key issue and something that has been a real significant issue in all 3 of our last losses to KC.  Not having Tre in the 13 second game was massive.  2 years ago stuck with the Ghost of Von Miller coming back from an ACL tear and having no LB's and starting guys recently off their couch was a major issue that game as KC just attacked the LB spot all game long with ease.  Last year, Elam having to come into the game was immediately exploited and played a major role in our loss.  

 

I don't know if they have the ability to be a top defense, but the question is more will this unit improve.  And I think guys like TJ and Walker likely get better as the season progresses just getting more experience, and Walker is already showing the ability to make some impact plays.  But even just based on getting back Oliver, Milano, Hairston and our 2 guys on suspension (especially Hoecht) we should see this unit improve.  Keeping them healthy and on the field though is going to be key come the post season.  

 

There is one thing that I am concerned about though, is we may not really know what this defense can or can't be (even if healthy) until that pivotal game in the postseason.  There are not a lot of "big" tests on our regular season schedule.  KC and TB are the ones that stand out, and KC isn't the same offensive team in the regular season and probably taking a step back this year, and TB while very good isn't as dangerous or explosive as the Ravens offense we faced.  We do play the Eagles late, but we might legit have the 1 seed already locked up by then.  So we run the risk of getting a bit of fools gold syndrome through a somewhat cushy schedule and not truly see this defense really tested until that game we need them to handle their business.  

 

I also do not think Bobby Babich is particularly good. The third down defense is a problem not entirely because of how he calls it but definitely partly how he calls it. I know he is still a relatively inexperienced coordinator and he has had some highlights (his regular season gameplan v KC last year was outstanding) but I feel like he is a weak spot. 

[Success]

We really don't have much depth in the secondary.  Rapp & Bishop in particular have to stay healthy - big dropoff there if either gets hurt.

 

Hairston will be a welcome addition at CB.  Hopefully he adjusts to the NFL pretty quickly.  I think Strong should start over Tre while he's out.  I thought Strong looked really good when he played.

 

 

[BillsShredder83]

2 hours ago, BearNorth said:

I find it interesting that both Bosa and Daquan are grading in the top 5 of their positions, and Ed was #1 for the game he played, Groot is in the top 20.  Behind them tho, our secondary looks less than a top crew. The only back 7 players who are grade above the midpoint at their position are Taron and Tre White.  Benford has had a huge fall off.  I think any team with a lot of speed at RB and WR is going to give us problems unless the coaches find a fix.

Wonder if were tinkering with philosophy, since we brought in a few new coaches with different scheme backgrounds.  Could be were seeing a learning curve from some of the guys like Benford, Milano, Bernard.

 

Honestly I cant confirm or deny, complete speculation... but would make sense