Interesting in-game convo between Shakir and Palmer

[Einstein]

During the first half Sunday night, as the Ravens racked up points on the Bills, new Buffalo receiver Joshua Palmerwalked over to teammate Khalil Shakir.

 

"OK, so when do we normally start to pick it up?" Palmer asked Shakir. "You know, like the Bills I’ve been watching."

 

"Usually towards the end of the second half," Shakir told Palmer. "We’ve got 17."

 

https://www.foxsports.com/stories/nfl/stuff-dont-happen-like-that-anatomy-bills-qb-josh-allen-comeback

[Richard Noggin]

What if they tried starting the game (against elite teams especially) with that same urgency and aggression? That's my biggest complaint. Our defense isn't good enough most of the time against the best offenses, but could be with more help (scoring) to make those offenses more one-dimensional. 

[Ramza86]

12 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

What if they tried starting the game (against elite teams especially) with that same urgency and aggression? That's my biggest complaint. Our defense isn't good enough most of the time against the best offenses, but could be with more help (scoring) to make those offenses more one-dimensional. 

I would agree with this but I wonder just what kind of shell defenses they are playing against us. I have to imagine its dont get beat deep, which is why we always have to take the check or something short/intermediate. 

It feels like were better in the 2nd half is because Allen chipped away at the defense kind of like how the running game gets stronger as the game progresses

[BuffaloBillyG]

I like that players count on JA17 late in games. But I don't like that it just comes across as "we don't have to do anything special most of the game....Josh will figure it out".

[boyst]

40 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

What if they tried starting the game (against elite teams especially) with that same urgency and aggression? That's my biggest complaint. Our defense isn't good enough most of the time against the best offenses, but could be with more help (scoring) to make those offenses more one-dimensional. 

I think it could cause more problems than good revving the engine that high for the duration of the game. We would end up like the '24 Lions. 

[Richard Noggin]

25 minutes ago, boyst said:

I think it could cause more problems than good revving the engine that high for the duration of the game. We would end up like the '24 Lions. 

 

But I don't think you intentionally redline it "for the duration of the game" if the game script goes as intended: attacking and scoring to establish enough of a lead to make your opponent's offense more predictably pass-heavy/one-dimensional. I don't love any of this prescriptive or compensatory game-planning, but we have to admit our defense needs help against the better offenses.

 

The real question becomes: can the current Bills DL/pass rush actually capitalize on such an advantage? We don't necessarily have a Dwight Freeney/Mathis (Colts used this model--ahem, Polian) or a Bruce Smith/Seales/Bennett (Bills also under Polian) pass rushing tandem who can consistently/quickly pressure the QB in obvious passing situations.

 

[T.E.]

Sorry, Josh, I know you signed here to be a targeted WR with a top-flight QB, but our coach wants to mirror the offense of the Kordell Stewart-era Pittsburgh Steelers. Enjoy your three targets a week, though!

[transplantbillsfan]

4 hours ago, Einstein said:

During the first half Sunday night, as the Ravens racked up points on the Bills, new Buffalo receiver Joshua Palmerwalked over to teammate Khalil Shakir.

 

"OK, so when do we normally start to pick it up?" Palmer asked Shakir. "You know, like the Bills I’ve been watching."

 

"Usually towards the end of the second half," Shakir told Palmer. "We’ve got 17."

 

https://www.foxsports.com/stories/nfl/stuff-dont-happen-like-that-anatomy-bills-qb-josh-allen-comeback

 

This makes me sad. It just confirms that what I thought was true: some terrible conservative playcalling by Brady in the 1st half.

[thurst44]

34 minutes ago, T.E. said:

Sorry, Josh, I know you signed here to be a targeted WR with a top-flight QB, but our coach wants to mirror the offense of the Kordell Stewart-era Pittsburgh Steelers. Enjoy your three targets a week, though!

He had 6 catches for 61 yards in this game we're talking about right now.

[Herc11]

That first drive was beautiful. The pass was working mixed with run. I know it's scripted plays, but then Brady crapped the bed on the next two possessions and allowed the Ravens to jump out on top. Really hope Brady looks at the play calling that stalled those drives and makes some adjustments.

[TheBrownBear]

1 hour ago, T.E. said:

Sorry, Josh, I know you signed here to be a targeted WR with a top-flight QB, but our coach wants to mirror the offense of the Kordell Stewart-era Pittsburgh Steelers. Enjoy your three targets a week, though!

You can't be serious.  We had nearly 500 yards of offense and our starting receivers had 237 yards between them.

[Richard Noggin]

5 minutes ago, thurst44 said:

He had 6 catches for 61 yards in this game we're talking about right now.

 

And how many attempts did Allen have in order to produce that level of production for Palmer? (was 5 catches btw, not 6)

 

Week 1 extrapolates out to a career best, 1,000+ yard season (and career best 85 receptions) for Palmer, but there is NO reality in which Bills coaches intend to see Allen attempt 46 passes again this regular season. It could happen, but should be more of an outlier if the Bills are able to dictate a balanced attack the ways they hope to most weeks.

 

Last regular season, for example, Allen had a peak of 40 attempts ONE time, against KC in a win. The year prior, though, he got to at least 40 attempts 5 times, and only 1 of those was a win. The year prior to that, he had 40+ attempts 5 times, with 3 of those being wins. And prior to that in 2021, Allen had 40+ attempts 8 times, winning only 4 of those games.

 

So, since 2021, prior to 2025, JA17/Buffalo has thrown at least 40 pass attempts 19 times out of 67 games, and is 9-10 in those games. Overall, the Bills are 46-21 over that span, which means they are 37-11 when attempting fewer than 40 passes. Don't think such metrics are lost on Sean McDermott. 

 

We can add a 1-0 2025 record in games where Allen attempts 40+ passes, but that brings the franchise only to a .500 record over the past 4+ seasons when they are extremely pass-heavy. (Incorporating Allen's first 3 seasons adds a 5-4 record in such games, so the pattern is fairly consistent throughout.) 

 

No surprise that in the playoffs, the Bills/Allen have NEVER won when attempting 40+ passes (0-3), and are 7-3 otherwise. 

 

**this all potentially crushes my desire to see the Bills come out each week with extreme aggression, offensively (instead of intentional balance and control)

[Warcodered]

I see we subscribed to the Rocky v. Clubber Lang method this game.

 

 

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, T.E. said:

Sorry, Josh, I know you signed here to be a targeted WR with a top-flight QB, but our coach wants to mirror the offense of the Kordell Stewart-era Pittsburgh Steelers. Enjoy your three targets a week, though!

 

 

Yeah, I remember when Kordell threw 46 passes the way Josh did against the Ravens. 

 

It was 12/13/97. 48 attempts Once in his whole career he threw that much.

 

That's a ridiculous connection to make. People have been begging ... pleading ... for the Bills to run more to take the pressure off of Allen. They do it, become the #1 offense and make the AFC championship, and now people are complaining they don't throw enough. Jeez. You can't win.

[davefan66]

Can’t argue with the winning we have done. But would be nice to come out fast on offense and be in control from the beginning.  Especially in big games. 

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, Herc11 said:

That first drive was beautiful. The pass was working mixed with run. I know it's scripted plays, but then Brady crapped the bed on the next two possessions and allowed the Ravens to jump out on top. Really hope Brady looks at the play calling that stalled those drives and makes some adjustments.

 

On both of the next two possessions Josh checked out of plays into a run up the middle and a screen. Now who knows what those calls were originally (pretty sure the first on 2nd and 1 was a pass) but wjen people are criticising conservative play calling they need to take that into account. 

[T.E.]

5 hours ago, TheBrownBear said:

You can't be serious.  We had nearly 500 yards of offense and our starting receivers had 237 yards between them.

Yes, they were finally forced to utilize their best asset when down by double-digita in the 4th quarter, and it worked. Funny how that happens.

6 hours ago, thurst44 said:

He had 6 catches for 61 yards in this game we're talking about right now.

Yes, they eventually had no choice but to throw downfield, something they should've been doing all game. 

[SirAndrew]

7 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

But I don't think you intentionally redline it "for the duration of the game" if the game script goes as intended: attacking and scoring to establish enough of a lead to make your opponent's offense more predictably pass-heavy/one-dimensional. I don't love any of this prescriptive or compensatory game-planning, but we have to admit our defense needs help against the better offenses.

 

The real question becomes: can the current Bills DL/pass rush actually capitalize on such an advantage? We don't necessarily have a Dwight Freeney/Mathis (Colts used this model--ahem, Polian) or a Bruce Smith/Seales/Bennett (Bills also under Polian) pass rushing tandem who can consistently/quickly pressure the QB in obvious passing situations.

 

I agree, there’s no urgency in play calling early in the game. Things turned around immensely once we stopped throwing passes behind the line of scrimmage, and Ray Davis runs on first and second down. I’m also aware that a softer second half Baltimore defense changed the game, but we took the ball out of Allen’s too much early on. 

[T.E.]

4 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Yeah, I remember when Kordell threw 46 passes the way Josh did against the Ravens. 

 

It was 12/13/97. 48 attempts Once in his whole career he threw that much.

 

That's a ridiculous connection to make. People have been begging ... pleading ... for the Bills to run more to take the pressure off of Allen. They do it, become the #1 offense and make the AFC championship, and now people are complaining they don't throw enough. Jeez. You can't win.

Say what you want, it's concerning that our #1 knows that the offense doesn't usually open it up until the very end of games. 

[frostbitmic]

Sounds to me like Shakir was just busting his chops. The Offense wasn't a problem Sunday, they produced putting up 41 against the Ravens.

 

The problem was the opposing Offense also produced and put up 40, looking bad for 50 minutes. Hopefully it was only one poor game and gameplan.