Does there need to be a rethinking of the basic D?

[oldmanfan]

6 minutes ago, Logic said:

"I am not the sort to panic over a couple preseason games but..."

*Proceeds to panic over a couple preseason games*

Not panicking at all.  Just an observation that teams might be seeing an opening for the shorter, quicker routes against our D.

[dave mcbride]

21 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I don't believe we saw our real defense yet. But what we have seen is scary bad.

The only starters who saw any time last night (and it wasn’t much) were Palmer on offense and Bishop on D. That is it. 

[buffaloaggie]

As usual, the defense stands around. They don't react to a player entering their zone on pass routes. Too soft in coverage. Our DEs run right past the QB on a pass rush and with no LB support behind them, QBs can run for ten yards easily. Landon Jackson has zero fundamentals. In college, he was bigger and faster than most. Now, he's just another average sized DL. I have a feeling Jackson will be inactive for many games this year, but we have the Hoecht suspension looming. Groot is going to be very busy in the first few games.

[dorquemada]

29 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Not panicking at all.  Just an observation that teams might be seeing an opening for the shorter, quicker routes against our D.

 

This is my worry.  Bend and then break is something we've seen before.

[chris heff]

2 hours ago, dorquemada said:

Somehow, despite all the draft capital spend on the DL, we don’t have the horses to put pressure on the QB.  I’m not sure what can be done schematically to compensate for personnel.  We’re told that McD is a defensive genius, and if you don’t believe it just ask him, so we have to assume the scheme is optimized for the players and we have a season of the opponents converting 3rd and long over and over.

McDermott has never said he’s a “defensive genius”. Rex Ryan said he was a “defensive genius”. 

[JP51]

Ok so I am here...  I get it is only pre season... I get that the defense is vanilla, I get our starters or some of them havent really played... I get that they don't game plan for preseason..  and mostly, I get that the results of the game don't count... but in some respect matter....  If I saw a competitive game where we lost.. then yeah, whatever... but when I watch pre season, I am looking for a couple of things.. 

 

1. Who are the players that we brought in ( especially thru the draft) that pop... every team has them... the ones that you look at and go this guy gives us hope for the future, hope that we are upgrading our talent... not polished yet, but hey we got some one here. 

 

2. That there is some level of change to a defensive unit that was legitimately bad, that a 2nd year coordinator learned some lessons and improved that maybe )see point 1) that those people that we invested all that draft capital in were going to help us...  That maybe the pass rush improved, that maybe we wouldn't get gashed on the ground for 6 yards a pop, that maybe we would have someone within 30 yards of their best receiver on the field as if he actually mattered... maybe we could get off the field on 3rd down . not give up 3rd and long,  understand that the soft zone coverage was soul sucking... 

 

What I saw was... no one and I mean no one on defense actually made a play. maybe Hancock.. no one even against Bears back ups pressured the QB, and those players we drafted, Jackson, Walker, Sanders showed me close to nothing against Bears backups, Hamlin and Bishop looked like keystone cops doing a fire drill we were hoping Bishop would progress even a little, the fact that Hamlin is still there is disturbing... wrong angles, bad tacking was rampant, and simply getting blown off the ball with very little penetration, gap integrity or disruption was rampant... we made Beasant look like a top 10 qb in this league... 

 

I saw no change from last years scheme, I saw the same gashing on the ground, the same bad tacking, the same soft zone, the same lack of pass rush, the same giving up 3rd and long etc..  I saw nothing that Babich did to show me that he learned some lessons... and I saw it two weeks in a row against two bottom feeding teams... 

 

Panic, no put 100% stock in it, no... call the season and the players a bust, no...  but call it what it is...  I see no signs of improvement, no signs that we have actually drafted players that are going to upgrade us especially on the D Line, no Free agents like Hoecht or whomever that are coming to save the pass rush, no signs that we have improved out horrific DB situation... maybe there is and i am missing it... but I sure as sh$t haven't seen it... what does that mean... well we wait, we see, we hope, but it just became very difficult to feel good about that hope realistically... things change, maybe this is all bunk, but from where I stand... my hope for improvement is pretty dim...  time will tell. 

Edited August 18 by JP51

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

47 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Not panicking at all.  Just an observation that teams might be seeing an opening for the shorter, quicker routes against our D.

 

And that may be by design - test your secondary to disrupt the catch point... and tackle.  You also get an advantage of being able to get eyes on QB.  Yesterday to me indicated that they need work on both.  

 

You can't play press man all game long - there's tons of motion and natural picks - you're also setting up players to get roasted by double moves.  

[boco357]

I put in game day thread that Babich is set up to be the fall guy this year if they falter again.

Look at last season:

 Ravens game, late score and fortunate with 2 pt miss.

Give the Chiefs the biggest output of the season, but will give credit at the end and got off fielding holding to FG.

Rams and Lions games give up over 40 pts each.

Even the Broncos playoff game gave up early big play TD.

But like others have posted so far this preseason-3rd downs given up like candy, every run play is at least 5 yards, TEs or WRS wide open, QB rollout to wide open throw, screen passes no answers for.

What does this defense do that is good, besides be ok when they are playing with the lead?

Edited August 18 by boco357

[zow2]

I need to be talked off the ledge a bit.  I just can't think of a legit SB team with a deep secondary as weak as ours.  We all know Josh can get us to the brink with offense..  but when you play the other elite AFC team(s) at the end of January, the D comes up small.   Teams can throw on us and convert 3rd downs at a good clip.

[YattaOkasan]

7 minutes ago, boco357 said:

I put in game day thread that Babich is set up to be the fall guy this year if they falter again.

Look at last season:

 Ravens game, late score and fortunate with 2 pt miss.

Give the Chiefs the biggest output of the season, but will give credit at the end and got off fielding holding to FG.

Rams and Lions games give up over 40 pts each.

Even the Broncos playoff game gave up early big play TD.

But like others have posted so far this preseason-3rd downs given up like candy, every run play is at least 5 yards, TEs or WRS wide open, QB rollout to wide open throw, screen passes no answers for.

What does this defense do that is good, besides be ok when they are playing with the lead?

We dont know what they do well cause they havent played a real game yet.  We have turned over large parts of this defense and I expect more churn through the season.  We have proven players at almost every position except S and DT.  If were just off last season and we say what does this defense do thats good, the answer is take the ball away.  

[Nihilarian]

To those freaking out a little...think of who the Buffalo Bills play in their first game? Ohhh the 2024, 12-5 Baltimore Ravens that were 1st in the AFC North and top ten in both offense and defense. Their offense was #3 in points scored and #1 in yards.

 

Now, if you were McD would you want to show the Ravens anything when they watch the film of the Bills 2025 preseason games...(which btw are meaningless)?

 

If the Ravens coaches / players watch the games so far they will be thinking that they don't even need to show up and its a win for them. They will have some serious revenge on their minds for the playoff loss last season and it will be a tough game.

 

 

[YattaOkasan]

1 minute ago, Nihilarian said:

To those freaking out a little...think of who the Buffalo Bills play in their first game? Ohhh the 2024, 12-5 Baltimore Ravens that were 1st in the AFC North and top ten in both offense and defense. Their offense was #3 in points scored and #1 in yards.

 

Now, if you were McD would you want to show the Ravens anything when they watch the film of the Bills 2025 preseason games...(which btw are meaningless)?

 

If the Ravens coaches / players watch the games so far they will be thinking that they don't even need to show up and its a win for them. They will have some serious revenge on their minds for the playoff loss last season and it will be a tough game.

 

 

Agree, i would also ask posters which tape do other teams are gonna use to scout.  This preseason or last year?  Of course the Ravens are gonna try to run it down our throats.  Its what they do and we struggled against it last year.  None of the preseason matters except for talent evaluation.  Im not thrilled so many players aint living up to the test, but most of them are not going to be playing.  

[Fleezoid]

3 hours ago, Xwnyer said:

Tired of the soft zone tampa 2 scheme.  Playing 10 yards off receivers, safeties 20 yards deep and heading away from LOS at snap lots of open area just over the LBs

 

While their receivers were running routes, our DBs were standing in their zones. Standing in their zones. You could clearly see it on a crossing route from the endzone camera. 

[YattaOkasan]

3 minutes ago, Fleezoid said:

 

While their receivers were running routes, our DBs were standing in their zones. Standing in their zones. You could clearly see it on a crossing route from the endzone camera. 

Can't believe Babich called the stand around coverage.  He should be fired.  

[dorquemada]

What I dont get is this idea that only the Buffalo Bills are keeping their powder dry, while every other team is going 110%.  Was Cole Bishop explicitly coached to take wrong angles and be 5 yards off the play?

[bmur66]

As far as the Bills D. You ain't seen nothing yet. That could be good or bad.

[finn]

53 minutes ago, dorquemada said:

 

This is my worry.  Bend and then break is something we've seen before.

Agree. And the only real difference this year is that Bosa replaced Von Miller. To avoid KC scoring 34 points AGAIN in January, the Bills defense needed a radical overhaul, not a tweak. The best pass rush in the world won't get home with this secondary, especially with its lack of depth. It's like Beane and McDermott are on different pages. Beane wants more pressure so loads up on the D-line, only to be thwarted by McDermott, who instructs his safeties to let the receivers catch the ball because maybe they'll drop it or a penalty will negate the play. Clap clap. 

 

Man, I would love to see an aggressive philosophy. Yes, they'll get burned, but they'll also sack the QB. The drip drip drip of third-and-long completions is just agony. Plus, it keeps the best QB in the league on the bench. 

 

Even Pegula won't keep McDermott after a repeat of last year, right? (Right?)

[947]

8 minutes ago, finn said:

McDermott, who instructs his safeties to let the receivers catch the ball because maybe they'll drop it or a penalty will negate the play. Clap clap. 

 

This epitomizes our Defensive philosophy so perfectly. It's sad, but we all know it's true.

[dorquemada]

Just now, 947 said:

 

This epitomizes our Defensive philosophy so perfectly. It's sad, but we all know it's true.

 

Its a really unsatisfying D to watch

[uticaclub]

2 hours ago, todd said:

 P R E S E A S O N

Have you watched us play quality QBs the last 8 years?

Edited August 18 by uticaclub