Good Night / Bad Night - Pre-season Game 2

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, juno999 said:

Last year, the Bears crushed the Bills in preseason. The Bears ended up firing their coach and sucked. The Bills won the division, Allen got MVP, and they lost to the Chiefs in the playoffs again. Last night says nothing. 

 

At a team level I totally agree. The individual evaluations do matter though.

 

[BuffaloBaumer]

Cole Bishop

Landon Jackson

 

these two are are just absolute waste of picks that continue the trend of big misses in the draft. 
 

Safety will be the reason they miss the SB AGAIN 

[Einstein]

12 minutes ago, juno999 said:

Anything is possible but I highly doubt they cut him now. 

 

I doubt it as well.

[eball]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Tyrell Shavers - The reason Shenault needs one of Samuel or Moore to fall by the wayside is Shavers. He just continues to perform, is out there as a gunner on special teams, made a nice catch on a back shoulder throw from Mike White and looks like a guy who can run routes outside (as has been much discussed the Bills are overloaded with guys who prefer to play the slot). He is getting closer and closer to the 53. We have had guys like this feel like they have made it before under this regime only to end up on the cutting room floor but I think Shavers is trending towards making it.

 

And Shavers was wide open for a TD that White overthrew also.  I think he’s making the team; he just gets open, and he’s a ST contributor.

 

[MikePJ76]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

At a team level I totally agree. The individual evaluations do matter though.

 

I remember vividly last year the bills with and without their starters could not run the ball on the bears and the usual suspects were freaking out the next day.

 

there was a lot of the bills can’t run the ball and they shouldn’t be running it because it doesn’t lead to scoring and ultimately winning.  
 

As the man said it’s Deja vu all over again.

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

Didn’t McD actually LOSE his challenge? 

[Shortchaz]

6 minutes ago, juno999 said:

Last year, the Bears crushed the Bills in preseason. The Bears ended up firing their coach and sucked. The Bills won the division, Allen got MVP, and they lost to the Chiefs in the playoffs again. Last night says nothing. 

Agree, people thinking we have 75 nfl starters on the roster got a reality check 

[SoonerBillsFan]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

First of all nobody should freak out. McDermott did say before the joint practice he would decide after it how to treat this game. By all accounts the Bills showed well in practice and as such they sat a ton of guys here. The Bears were playing a team, or a team and a half above the Bills all night.... but there were some things that could be taken from it..... even if my first reaction was "Wow... gotta find five "good nights" out of that!" Anyway, glad I only stayed up for the first quarter before going to sleep. Have watched the rest of the game this morning so here goes:

 

Good Night for...

 

Brad Robbins - Yes, it was that kinda night.... the first place by head goes is the punter played well! But just generally through the two pre-season games so far I have been impressed with Robbins. It is worth reminding yourself that he was actually drafted in 2023 by the Bengals but lost the job after one year. I wonder if he has benefitted from the year off because his leg looks plenty strong right now and there were two well judged shorter punts downed inside the 20 too. I'll add to it the coverage units have been pretty decent through two pre-season games when traditionally it is tougher to get that right with guys cycling through. 

 

Laviska Shenault - Three solid returns averaging 28 yards and he did look decisive on them. I don't think he is separating himself from Codrington yet (he had two for 27.5 average) and the competition still rages but the fact that Curtis Samuel can't get on the field and Elijah Moore can't catch a dump off means there is a potential gap there for a shifty, gimmick style receiver - something they might think Shenault can offer in addition to his returning. Not ready to say he is making the roster right now, but I have been pretty sniffy about his chances since he signed and my position is softening somewhat.

 

Tyrell Shavers - The reason Shenault needs one of Samuel or Moore to fall by the wayside is Shavers. He just continues to perform, is out there as a gunner on special teams, made a nice catch on a back shoulder throw from Mike White and looks like a guy who can run routes outside (as has been much discussed the Bills are overloaded with guys who prefer to play the slot). He is getting closer and closer to the 53. We have had guys like this feel like they have made it before under this regime only to end up on the cutting room floor but I think Shavers is trending towards making it. 

 

Frank Gore Jnr - Okay he had the fumble on a catch in the redzone that ended the Bills best drive in the 3rd quarter. But on a night where so many guys sucked and played at half speed Frank Gore went out there second half and played like it was the Superbowl. Ran hard, made himself available in the pass game and put his body on the line as a blocker. He ended with 81 of the Bills 180 offensive yards. He is kind of the perfect practice squad back in that he doesn't have special traits that are likely to get him poached but he is an absolute pro. If the Bills had a running back go down in year and had to call Gore up to the roster he would not let them down. 

 

Challenges - McDermott won a challenge! Hey, I was running out of positives..... 

 

 

Bad Night for...

 

Cole Bishop - Can't start anywhere else. He was the one likely starter that suited up for the Bills on defense, he played one drive and ended it giving up a touchdown after being lost and late in coverage again. Yes - he ended up on a slot receiver, tough matchup. But this wasn't a guy just out doing him athletically. He was in the wrong position, slow to read it and slow to react before the athleticism even became a factor. And this was not some super complex defensive call either, it looked like pretty vanilla single high with Bishop as the box safety (which is the role he is generally more comfortable in and played more in college). I'm really worried about his coverage struggles. It looks too much for him mentally to me.

 

Joe Andreessen - Possibly the first time since the train left the station last summer that someone has pumped the breaks but that was a rough half of football for Buffalo Joe. Again getting the start as the 2nd string MLB he struggled with Ben Johnson's play action calls - was not getting his depths right, was attacked in zone coverage and then made a mental mistake in man coverage too and dropped his guy. The suspicion has been there throughout that he is a bit more of an AJ Klein type who is a lot happier moving forwards than backwards but the Bears might be the first team to have really exposed it.

 

Mike White - I am not here to tell you Mitch Trubisky is good, but he is better than this. White's accuracy is a total lottery ticket. I will give him his props, I like how he stands in there and is willing to take a hit to get the ball off but he just misses too many throws. He didn't get a ton of help, I admit, but 4/11 for 54 yards with the 2nd string receivers and the best collection of offensive linemen the Bills had active was not a great statement in the backup QB battle.

 

Ryan Van Demark - It's been a good pre-season for Vandy to this point, he started camp splitting time with Tylan Grable at right tackle in Spencer Brown's absence and then has switched over to the left with Dion missing a couple of practices and he played well in pre-season game one. However, this was a poor outting. Two false starts on the first drive set the tone and it seemed to affect him because I thought he was chasing his blocks a bit after that and it affected his balance and technique.

 

Zach Davidson - This guy is toast. The drops last week, two bad penalties that wiped out chunk plays this week. It's over. 

 

 

Pick the bones out of that if you dare folks.... one more to go!

 

 

$#@! Show across the board other than the handful of positives you listed.

[gonzo1105]

My only thing about the Shenault/Codrington thought is not the WR/DB debate and who can play more/better at their respective position but whether Shenault can play the other two STs at a high level even Codrington can’t. To me that might be the difference. 
 

I find the fact that Codrington started even over guys like Hardy, Couch etc was interesting. Like they wanted to see if he could provide anything other than return ability. I also find it interesting how buried Hardy has become since last year and has had zero returns 

[juno999]

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

At a team level I totally agree. The individual evaluations do matter though.

 

To me, it looked like the Bills were trying to evaluate bottom of the 53 roster spots the entire game.  As you pointed out above, some good individual performances and too much bad. 

[juno999]

8 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

My only thing about the Shenault/Codrington thought is not the WR/DB debate and who can play more/better at their respective position but whether Shenault can play the other two STs at a high level even Codrington can’t. To me that might be the difference. 
 

I find the fact that Codrington started even over guys like Hardy, Couch etc was interesting. Like they wanted to see if he could provide anything other than return ability. I also find it interesting how buried Hardy has become since last year and has had zero returns 

You’re right about Hardy. He is buried on the depth chart. Iirc Couch was dinged up in practice earlier in the week. Don’t know if he was in the joint practice with the Bears. 

[BuffaloDave55]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

They may cut Cole Bishop.

 

Which would be shockingly early but he sucks.

 

PS, I love how Ben Johnson plays offense. Even in the pre-season. So hard to defend, even with limited QB’s.

 

 

They won't cut Bishop but if starts we're in trouble.... haven't seen enough of Foster... he may be the answer thus season, Hancock ready to move in next season.

[frostbitmic]

As my wife noted last night the players looked tired (Saw Bosa yawning on the sideline and M.White yawn on the field) They looked bored, and they looked like they'd rather be anywhere other than right there right then.

 

Robbins made the team ... No one else did... 24, 74, 44, 43 & 29 looked particularly bad.

 

Maybe the practices with the Bears were good but last night other than Robbins making the team the only other things they could've possibly learned was how bad they are at Safety without Rapp, where was Forrest ?

[BillsFooteball]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

First of all nobody should freak out. McDermott did say before the joint practice he would decide after it how to treat this game. By all accounts the Bills showed well in practice and as such they sat a ton of guys here. The Bears were playing a team, or a team and a half above the Bills all night.... but there were some things that could be taken from it..... even if my first reaction was "Wow... gotta find five "good nights" out of that!" Anyway, glad I only stayed up for the first quarter before going to sleep. Have watched the rest of the game this morning so here goes:

 

Good Night for...

 

Brad Robbins - Yes, it was that kinda night.... the first place by head goes is the punter played well! But just generally through the two pre-season games so far I have been impressed with Robbins. It is worth reminding yourself that he was actually drafted in 2023 by the Bengals but lost the job after one year. I wonder if he has benefitted from the year off because his leg looks plenty strong right now and there were two well judged shorter punts downed inside the 20 too. I'll add to it the coverage units have been pretty decent through two pre-season games when traditionally it is tougher to get that right with guys cycling through. 

 

Laviska Shenault - Three solid returns averaging 28 yards and he did look decisive on them. I don't think he is separating himself from Codrington yet (he had two for 27.5 average) and the competition still rages but the fact that Curtis Samuel can't get on the field and Elijah Moore can't catch a dump off means there is a potential gap there for a shifty, gimmick style receiver - something they might think Shenault can offer in addition to his returning. Not ready to say he is making the roster right now, but I have been pretty sniffy about his chances since he signed and my position is softening somewhat.

 

Tyrell Shavers - The reason Shenault needs one of Samuel or Moore to fall by the wayside is Shavers. He just continues to perform, is out there as a gunner on special teams, made a nice catch on a back shoulder throw from Mike White and looks like a guy who can run routes outside (as has been much discussed the Bills are overloaded with guys who prefer to play the slot). He is getting closer and closer to the 53. We have had guys like this feel like they have made it before under this regime only to end up on the cutting room floor but I think Shavers is trending towards making it. 

 

Frank Gore Jnr - Okay he had the fumble on a catch in the redzone that ended the Bills best drive in the 3rd quarter. But on a night where so many guys sucked and played at half speed Frank Gore went out there second half and played like it was the Superbowl. Ran hard, made himself available in the pass game and put his body on the line as a blocker. He ended with 81 of the Bills 180 offensive yards. He is kind of the perfect practice squad back in that he doesn't have special traits that are likely to get him poached but he is an absolute pro. If the Bills had a running back go down in year and had to call Gore up to the roster he would not let them down. 

 

Challenges - McDermott won a challenge! Hey, I was running out of positives..... 

 

 

Bad Night for...

 

Cole Bishop - Can't start anywhere else. He was the one likely starter that suited up for the Bills on defense, he played one drive and ended it giving up a touchdown after being lost and late in coverage again. Yes - he ended up on a slot receiver, tough matchup. But this wasn't a guy just out doing him athletically. He was in the wrong position, slow to read it and slow to react before the athleticism even became a factor. And this was not some super complex defensive call either, it looked like pretty vanilla single high with Bishop as the box safety (which is the role he is generally more comfortable in and played more in college). I'm really worried about his coverage struggles. It looks too much for him mentally to me.

 

Joe Andreessen - Possibly the first time since the train left the station last summer that someone has pumped the breaks but that was a rough half of football for Buffalo Joe. Again getting the start as the 2nd string MLB he struggled with Ben Johnson's play action calls - was not getting his depths right, was attacked in zone coverage and then made a mental mistake in man coverage too and dropped his guy. The suspicion has been there throughout that he is a bit more of an AJ Klein type who is a lot happier moving forwards than backwards but the Bears might be the first team to have really exposed it.

 

Mike White - I am not here to tell you Mitch Trubisky is good, but he is better than this. White's accuracy is a total lottery ticket. I will give him his props, I like how he stands in there and is willing to take a hit to get the ball off but he just misses too many throws. He didn't get a ton of help, I admit, but 4/11 for 54 yards with the 2nd string receivers and the best collection of offensive linemen the Bills had active was not a great statement in the backup QB battle.

 

Ryan Van Demark - It's been a good pre-season for Vandy to this point, he started camp splitting time with Tylan Grable at right tackle in Spencer Brown's absence and then has switched over to the left with Dion missing a couple of practices and he played well in pre-season game one. However, this was a poor outting. Two false starts on the first drive set the tone and it seemed to affect him because I thought he was chasing his blocks a bit after that and it affected his balance and technique.

 

Zach Davidson - This guy is toast. The drops last week, two bad penalties that wiped out chunk plays this week. It's over. 

 

 

Pick the bones out of that if you dare folks.... one more to go!

 

 

I think you did a great job nailing the bad night players. In a night where there was so little good or hard to pick any positives there were a handful of players that were atrocious. The 5 you listed were really really bad. I would like to just add Hamlin. My concern is I’m used to looking like weakest link on field with starters but when he’s in there against backups and still sticking out with poor play that’s not good.  Also don’t have anything positive to say about Dane Jackson and that’s not surprising because by almost any grade he’s one of the worse corners in league. 
 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Bishop looking like an outstanding pick 

[DJB]

[MikePJ76]

2 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

As my wife noted last night the players looked tired (Saw Bosa yawning on the sideline and M.White yawn on the field) They looked bored, and they looked like they'd rather be anywhere other than right there right then.

 

Robbins made the team ... No one else did... 24, 74, 44, 43 & 29 looked particularly bad.

 

Maybe the practices with the Bears were good but last night other than Robbins making the team the only other things they could've possibly learned was how bad they are at Safety without Rapp, where was Forrest ?

Forrest and Ingram played in the fourth quarter.

 

No idea what that means for either of them but it seemed like they played the guys who were on the fence all in the first half.

[Roundybout]

Landon Jackson is really emerging as a multi-year project at this point. The flashes are definitely there, but he's sooooo stiff and poor at setting the edge. 

[frostbitmic]

1 minute ago, MikePJ76 said:

Forrest and Ingram played in the fourth quarter.

 

No idea what that means for either of them but it seemed like they played the guys who were on the fence all in the first half.

I saw Ingram for a play or two in the 4th as you said but I never saw Forrest and maybe that's a good thing. Could Hancock win a starting Safety job by default ?

[HOUSE]

The positive is making roster cuts should be easy this year.