Training Camp 2025

[YattaOkasan]

2 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

The fact that Beane signed 3 veteran WRs in the offseason may be indicative that he's seen enough of Coleman that he's not sold on the guy.  There's rushing to conclusions and there's also observing the actions of a team's management-two totally different things where it may look like the same conclusion.  

The Bills are going to keep the top 5 or 6 WRs, and unfortunately for Coleman, he may not be one of them. 

Are you implying Laviska Shenault is ahead of Coleman on the depth chart?  Who is this 3rd veteran WR that indicates Coleman is off?  I (as well as like everyone) will be shocked if Coleman isnt on this team.  He got challenged by Beane and McD at the end of the year but there were favorable quotes about his growth at OTAs.  And that challenge was specifically how he returned from injury.  I think they were pleased with him pre-injury.  

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

19 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

The fact that Beane signed 3 veteran WRs in the offseason may be indicative that he's seen enough of Coleman that he's not sold on the guy.  There's rushing to conclusions and there's also observing the actions of a team's management-two totally different things where it may look like the same conclusion.  

The Bills are going to keep the top 5 or 6 WRs, and unfortunately for Coleman, he may not be one of them. 

I highly, highly, highly doubt that Beane is cutting a 33rd overall pick after one season where the guy got 500+ yards and 4 TDs

 

If you want to say that Beane saw a need, ok. It's ok to be frustrated that Keon isn't an overnight success. But this is just silly

[RoyBatty is alive]

On 7/23/2025 at 12:48 PM, Dillenger4 said:

Tre white getting burned already. Oh, how things don't change

Not a shock at all.

[RoscoeParrish]

5 hours ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

I want to remind people that for a while it was conventional wisdom in the league to give WRs three years to determine whether they would work out, but after you got a rash of rookie wonders patience has begun to run out.

 

Of course, this trend has already happened with QBs. Luck, RGIII, Wilson and Kaepernick all seemed to explode onto the league at the same time and that became the expectation.

 

Fast forward and you are seeing a multiple high round QB "busts" taking starting roles for other teams. Ask the Browns if they would take a straight up QB trade with the Bucs right now.

 

I'm not promising Coleman success but sweet mercy I think we are rushing to conclusions 

Baker was great year 1, was pretty high in rookie passing records and was second in OROY voting.

 

Not sure that’s the greatest piece of evidence.

 

as a corollary, the last great WR who wasn’t great within their first two seasons was Davante Adams who was drafted 11 years ago. That’s a long time ago in the NFL. 

 

And the QB comparison is also kind of a stretch. We just saw two GREAT rookie seasons back to back in Stroud and Daniels.

 

Thats nothing old or new. Sometimes QBs are good instantly and sustain it. Sometimes QBs take some time to develop. Sometimes QBs are good to start and then turn out to suck.  It’s objectively best for a football team to have option #1. Just like it’s objectively best to have a WR play very well from the jump and sustain it.

 

Ultimately, we have a team ready to win a Super Bowl now. Of course there’s going to be impatience. I bet Beane and co all wish Keon explodes on the scene this year, not 2 years from now. There’s nothing wrong with that.

Edited July 24 by RoscoeParrish

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

4 minutes ago, RoscoeParrish said:

Baker was great year 1, was pretty high in rookie passing records and was second in OROY voting.

 

Not sure that’s the greatest piece of evidence.

 

as a corollary, the last great WR who wasn’t great within their first two seasons was Davante Adams who was drafted 11 years ago. That’s a long time ago in the NFL. 

 

And the QB comparison is also kind of a stretch. We just saw two GREAT rookie seasons back to back in Stroud and Daniels.

 

Thats nothing old or new. Sometimes QBs are good instantly and sustain it. Sometimes QBs take some time to develop. Sometimes QBs are good to start and then turn out to suck.  It’s objectively best for a football team to have option #1. Just like it’s objectively best to have a WR play very well from the jump and sustain it.

 

Ultimately, we have a team ready to win a Super Bowl now. Of course there’s going to be impatience. I bet Beane and co all wish Keon explodes on the scene this year, not 2 years from now. There’s nothing wrong with that.

 

I suppose some definition of "great" is in order but what i can find of solid WR's who didn't light the world on fire in year 1 and 2: 

 

Thielen 2014

Lockett 2015

Kirk 2018

Aiyuk 2020

Collins 2021

London and Shakir from 2022

 

[RoscoeParrish]

35 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

I suppose some definition of "great" is in order but what i can find of solid WR's who didn't light the world on fire in year 1 and 2: 

 

Thielen 2014

Lockett 2015

Kirk 2018

Aiyuk 2020

Collins 2021

London and Shakir from 2022

 

Lockett, Thielen and Nico I will agree with; the rest I do not. 

 

Aiyuk has 800 yards in year 2. London had 900 yards in year 2. If we get that kind of production out of Coleman, that’s awesome. I don’t think that’s an unrealistic expectation. 

 

I don’t think you take a WR with your first pick in a WR heavy draft and don’t expect 800-900 yards with a HoF QB within a season or two, especially when you are in the middle of your SB window.

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

I suppose some definition of "great" is in order but what i can find of solid WR's who didn't light the world on fire in year 1 and 2: 

 

Thielen 2014

Lockett 2015

Kirk 2018

Aiyuk 2020

Collins 2021

London and Shakir from 2022

 

i think there are two things to consider wrt this list- who they were catching balls from and who they were behind

 

thielen iirc had cassel and rookie teddy two gloves, kirk was in the rosen draft class and behind larry fitz, aiyuk was the beathard year, i believe nico collins first year was the same year deshaun watson got suspended and was catching balls from tyrod taylor, and drake london didnt have a QB until Cousins...iirc it was desmond ridder and someone equally bad in 2023

 

which is just to say there aren't as many valid excuses for lack of production at wideout for our guy

[Albany,n.y.]

4 hours ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

I highly, highly, highly doubt that Beane is cutting a 33rd overall pick after one season where the guy got 500+ yards and 4 TDs

 

If you want to say that Beane saw a need, ok. It's ok to be frustrated that Keon isn't an overnight success. But this is just silly

Trading for a low round pick, not cutting.  

[BillsFanForever19]

17 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Trading for a low round pick, not cutting.  

 

That's also not happening.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

21 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Trading for a low round pick, not cutting.  

Which is, in effect, cutting. Coleman is on a second round rookie deal. It's not like Beane would be trying to pawn off an aging free agent signing. Even if you got a trade the salary cap gains are practically wiped out by the guy you're replacing him on the roster for, based on Coleman having a 'meh' rookie season

 

Did he bang your girl? Because even if you aren't a fan of Coleman's game having a cost controlled body who has an outside shot of developing is going to be a lot more appealing for a GM than taking a stroll through a retirement home so I can only guess this is a deep personal grudge

 

 

[BillsFanForever19]

5 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

The fact that Beane signed 3 veteran WRs in the offseason may be indicative that he's seen enough of Coleman that he's not sold on the guy.  There's rushing to conclusions and there's also observing the actions of a team's management-two totally different things where it may look like the same conclusion.  

The Bills are going to keep the top 5 or 6 WRs, and unfortunately for Coleman, he may not be one of them. 

 

The fact that he signed Palmer and Moore says that he needed to replace Cooper and Hollins' spots on the roster. Shenault is a camp body that may or may not make the roster as a Kick Returner over Codrington. None of those signings were to push Coleman off the roster. At most, they'll take on some of his reps on top of their regular load if Coleman doesn't look good in Year 2.

 

He may or may not be sold on him yet. But he's entering just Year 2 after spending the 33rd pick in the Draft on him. He's going to be given this year and probably next year as well to see how he develops. He's not going anywhere this year. You don't give up on an investment like that after just 1 season, regardless of how he looks in Training Camp this year.

Edited July 24 by BillsFanForever19

[Albany,n.y.]

36 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

Which is, in effect, cutting. Coleman is on a second round rookie deal. It's not like Beane would be trying to pawn off an aging free agent signing. Even if you got a trade the salary cap gains are practically wiped out by the guy you're replacing him on the roster for, based on Coleman having a 'meh' rookie season

 

Did he bang your girl? Because even if you aren't a fan of Coleman's game having a cost controlled body who has an outside shot of developing is going to be a lot more appealing for a GM than taking a stroll through a retirement home so I can only guess this is a deep personal grudge

 

 

I have nothing against Coleman.  I'm just observing the roster.  

Were you one of the guys who asked me the same question when I warned against Nathan Peterman & Brian Brohm?  Every time I make a roster observation the dreamers think I hate the guy, when I just see there's no path for him. I hope he proves me wrong, but he's already buried deep on the depth chart which usually indicates one foot out the door. 

Edited July 24 by Albany,n.y.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

22 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

The fact that he signed Palmer and Moore says that he needed to replace Cooper and Hollins' spots on the roster. Shenault is a camp body that may or may not make the roster as a Kick Returner over Codrington. None of those signings were to push Coleman off the roster. At most, they'll take on some of his reps on top of their regular load if Coleman doesn't look good in Year 2.

 

He may or may not be sold on him yet. But he's entering just Year 2 after spending the 33rd pick in the Draft on him. He's going to be given this year and probably next year as well to see how he develops. He's not going anywhere this year. You don't give up on an investment like that after just 1 season, regardless of how he looks in Training Camp this year.

I think we are aligned on this takedown. 

 

As I have said before, I think it's ok to be frustrated at where Coleman is right now especially seeing Ladd McConkey busting loose in LA. But to your point, if the team wanted to replace the role envisioned for Coleman they wouldn't have been bringing in the 5'10 Elijah Moore.

 

Do you want to argue that they might push Coleman down the depth chart? Maybe. Coleman has been with the 1s while Moore has been with the 2s.

 

But really, they all do such different things that I sincerely think that Joe Brady understands that unless they get spectacularly lucky no one on the roster is going to be an elite prototypical #1 outside WR. What I see him doing instead is setting the roster and gameplan each week to hone in on a defense's weakness.

 

Kincaid and Coleman will be blocking possession receivers

Coleman and Shakir are YAC monsters

Samuel and Cook can catch out of the backfield

Moore and Palmer are vertical stretchers

 

I mentally circle back to the 2023 Cowboys and 2024 Jags games. Brady recognized glaring weaknesses in both defenses, the Cowboys subpar run defense and the Jags insistence on man coverage and kept spamming those counters (Running away from Micah Parsons, motion to identify man matchups)

 

[BillsFanForever19]

6 hours ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

I think we are aligned on this takedown. 

 

As I have said before, I think it's ok to be frustrated at where Coleman is right now especially seeing Ladd McConkey busting loose in LA. But to your point, if the team wanted to replace the role envisioned for Coleman they wouldn't have been bringing in the 5'10 Elijah Moore.

 

Do you want to argue that they might push Coleman down the depth chart? Maybe. Coleman has been with the 1s while Moore has been with the 2s.

 

But really, they all do such different things that I sincerely think that Joe Brady understands that unless they get spectacularly lucky no one on the roster is going to be an elite prototypical #1 outside WR. What I see him doing instead is setting the roster and gameplan each week to hone in on a defense's weakness.

 

Kincaid and Coleman will be blocking possession receivers

Coleman and Shakir are YAC monsters

Samuel and Cook can catch out of the backfield

Moore and Palmer are vertical stretchers

 

I mentally circle back to the 2023 Cowboys and 2024 Jags games. Brady recognized glaring weaknesses in both defenses, the Cowboys subpar run defense and the Jags insistence on man coverage and kept spamming those counters (Running away from Micah Parsons, motion to identify man matchups)

 

Said it once, i've said it a million times, Ladd McConkey is not the type of WR we were in the market for. Especially in this conversation where we're talking about the different roles of WR's, McConkey shouldn't be compared. It's like complaining about a Nickel CB being better than the Boundary CB we drafted.

 

In Shakir, Kincaid, and Samuel - we had the role McConkey would be playing on this team more than covered. Drafting McConkey would have just served to take those players off the field and done nothing to replace Diggs and Davis on the Outside.

Edited July 25 by BillsFanForever19

[GunnerBill]

12 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

I have nothing against Coleman.  I'm just observing the roster.  

Were you one of the guys who asked me the same question when I warned against Nathan Peterman & Brian Brohm?  Every time I make a roster observation the dreamers think I hate the guy, when I just see there's no path for him. I hope he proves me wrong, but he's already buried deep on the depth chart which usually indicates one foot out the door. 

 

I have been a Coleman sceptic since long before he was a Bill. I had provided a pretty full critique of him on this forum even before he ran his infamous Combine 40. I think as an outside receiver he is never going to be more than a guy in the NFL. If he is going to really succeed in the league it will be as a big slot or a flanker used almost entirely on inside routes where you get the ball in his hands quickly and use his best attribute which is his YAC ability. I've said this since February 2024. 

 

However, on the bolded - he isn't. He has been with the 1s entirely I think through two days of camp. Now he had a very rough day one, but unless I've missed it all of his action day two was still with the ones. That doesn't indicate him being buried on the depth chart. I share your concerns about him long term. But right now, the Bills organisation still sees him as a starting receiver and I don't expect that to change before September. Whether it is the same come January? Different question.

[4merper4mer]

12 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

I have nothing against Coleman.  I'm just observing the roster.  

Were you one of the guys who asked me the same question when I warned against Nathan Peterman & Brian Brohm?  Every time I make a roster observation the dreamers think I hate the guy, when I just see there's no path for him. I hope he proves me wrong, but he's already buried deep on the depth chart which usually indicates one foot out the door. 

Your best comparisons are Peterman and Brohm?

 

Shirley you can’t be serious.

[Albany,n.y.]

3 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

Your best comparisons are Peterman and Brohm?

 

Shirley you can’t be serious.

Those were the best examples of people asking why I hated someone I didn't hate.  I observed the actions of the rest of the GMs who let Brohm go by & was flamed because people like you said "I saw him play in college".  

I can't come up with others because I haven't observed many cases where the actions of NFL professionals have indicated they don't think much of a player and it applied to someone on the Buffalo Bills.  After Arizona dumped Rosen after 1 year I drew the same conclusion, but his main supporter was on a different board, so you probably didn't see the flaming then. 

The reaction that I hate a player because I see a problem that the player has with management that draws an overreaction that I don't like the guy is way over the top.  The times I notice this aren't often, but every time I do, people go way over the top & say I don't like the guy.  Nothing could be further than the truth.  I can't think of any Bills player I've ever disliked when he was on the team.  

Coleman may make the team, but his future in Buffalo is on very thin ice. There are just too many WRs on the roster better than him: Shakir, Palmer, Moore & Samuel.  That puts him as WR #5 IMO.  If a rookie WR shines in preseason, Coleman will have trouble making the team.  There are just too many receiving options including the RBs & TEs that it will be very difficult for Coleman to get targets & be much of a factor in this offense.  If there's a player who opens eyes as a 5th receiver who looks better than Coleman in August, Beane will cut his losses & take a draft choice for Coleman.  I'm sure there are other teams where Coleman wouldn't be the 5th best WR, but in Buffalo, he currently is, no matter what preseason depth chart you might find on the internet. 

 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

On 7/24/2025 at 9:27 AM, Albany,n.y. said:

Considering Keon could easily be 5th on the depth chart, I think there's a good chance he doesn't make the team. Probably goes for a 5th or 6th by late August, early September.  All it will take is a rookie or new WR who can return kicks showing more than him in preseason.  

 

 

On 7/24/2025 at 6:58 AM, GunnerBill said:

 

It's who Keon is. He is a non-separator and he isn't a good enough contested catch guy to get away with it. 

lol the hate for Keon Coleman has reached insane levels on this forum. I thought he put up a solid rookie campaign

[MDH]

17 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

I have nothing against Coleman.  I'm just observing the roster.  

Were you one of the guys who asked me the same question when I warned against Nathan Peterman & Brian Brohm?  Every time I make a roster observation the dreamers think I hate the guy, when I just see there's no path for him. I hope he proves me wrong, but he's already buried deep on the depth chart which usually indicates one foot out the door. 

Not only is he not “buried deep on the roster” but - barring injury - he’ll have the highest snap percentage in the WR room. 
 

Coleman is the closest thing the Bills have to a legit X. Nobody else on the roster can really fill that role. Hell, I’m not sure it’s a good spot for Coleman either, but he’s what we’ve got and they’re going to play him there at a high rate. 
 

All these posters coming in (after a day or two of non-padded practice) saying that the best 3 WRs are Palmer, Moore and Shakir and they are the ones who should play think this is fantasy football. That’s a Z, a Z/slot hybrid and a slot. The only one of those guys who can possibly move to the X is Palmer and moving him there would diminish his contributions.
 

I don’t think many posters realize the massive difference in having to line up ON the LoS and getting to line up a couple of yards behind it. 

[GunnerBill]

37 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

lol the hate for Keon Coleman has reached insane levels on this forum. I thought he put up a solid rookie campaign

 

Mine is not hate. But he is a non-separator outside. That is just a factual statement. He was in college and he was last year. I think he has a role in this league but it is not the role I think the Bills want him to play. Keon's best attribute is his run after catch ability. You gotta get the ball in his hands close to or around the line of scrimmage and then let him use his power, agility and vision to make defenders miss in the open field.