McDermott not in Top 10 of NFL coaches per PFF.

[Mikie2times]

26 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

Hopefully it doesn't take that long because Allen will probably be retired by then.

He will likely be a grandfather 

[Royale with Cheese]

8 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Payton has been good for a long time though. He went to the NFC Championship after 2006 and took an undermanned Broncos team to the playoffs in 2024. He won a Super Bowl in between then and should have went again 5 years ago. I think Payton is an offensive genius. He’s an idiot but he’s an arrogant genius. He doesn’t tense up in the biggest moments. He pushes his chips in.

 

Payton is known to be a choker.  I believe he's 4-7 in the playoffs since the Super Bowl win.  3 straight 1st round losses, one to a team below .500 and also the first ever 13-3 team to lose in the first round.....

He had Drew Brees...

Edited 1 hour ago by Royale with Cheese

[Beck Water]

17 hours ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

Seems to me like they are weighing clicks over anything else.

 

And that, my friends, is the bottom line.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, sunshynman said:

Regardless of SB wins McD is currently a top 10 coach. A SB appearance gets him in the top 5. A SB win puts him in the hall of fame.

 

Bills fans will never be fully happy without the SB win. Me included. But we all know, that if we win the SB this year, at the moment McD and Allen are hosting up the Lombardi; the negative Nancys on here will say the need to win again next year or it means nothing!

Im not sure he is a top 10 coach. He builds a good culture. Not sure he is a top 10 game day coach. 

 

If we win the SB I will eat crow. Until then McDermott is a major question mark. 

 

To his defenders I repeatedly ask and never get an answer. How many years of failure is enough before trying something different???? For me it's was two years ago when Jim Harbaugh or Ben Johnson could have been hired. 

[billsfan714]

Just now, sunshynman said:

Your one of those guys that won't give credit if we win the SB.

 

I want a SB win before I die as much as anyone. But logic says, replacing McD now, doesn't get us one.

If the Bills win the superbowl i will be there downtown to celebrate.   I will spend freak money on SB champ merchandise.   I will be unbearable to my Steeler friend fans down here in PA.    Im just old enough to know franchise QBs dont come around too often.  Kelly was drafted in 1983, Josh 35 years later in 2018. The time to win it is now.   My lying eyes tell me Josh and the offense can get it done, the problem, consistently in the playoffs falls on the D.  McD was a D coordinator, to me he's the problem.   Josh's playoff stats are awesome.    The D, in the playoffs comes up small, repeatedly.

[FireChans]

33 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Honestly I'd take McDermott.

Nutso. I doubt the players have that much faith in McD at this point.

 

I’ll ask again at 0-5.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

2 hours ago, BigAl2526 said:

People keep giving Stefanski a pass for the train wreck that is Cleveland.  Yeah, they have and idiot GM, but without evidence on the field you can't justify ranking Stephanski with the best coaches in the league.  I question Tomlin's ranking as well.  Yes, he's had success over a long tenure, but the last several years, the Steelers have tended toward mediocrity.  I don't like the Jim Harbaugh  selection either.  Yeah, he's a good coach with some history before he fled the NFL for Michigan, but PFF seems to buy into the Harbaugh mystique and bluster instead of looking at recent history, because he has precious little.

Harbaugh won a national championship and had San Francisco one play away from a SuperBowl title. You may not like the guy, but you can't dismiss his accomplishments. He's won everywhere he has been. 

[sunshynman]

1 minute ago, billsfan714 said:

If the Bills win the superbowl i will be there downtown to celebrate.   I will spend freak money on SB champ merchandise.   I will be unbearable to my Steeler friend fans down here in PA.    Im just old enough to know franchise QBs dont come around too often.  Kelly was drafted in 1983, Josh 35 years later in 2018. The time to win it is now.   My lying eyes tell me Josh and the offense can get it done, the problem, consistently in the playoffs falls on the D.  McD was a D coordinator, to me he's the problem.   Josh's playoff stats are awesome.    The D, in the playoffs comes up small, repeatedly.

The D talent and playoff play is a big issue. And they recognized that and pushed to change it this year. But the 13 seconds problem was McD letting Frazier call the play and not overruling him. I think by playoff time this year, the D will be what is needed to get past KC, Ravens, etc. We better have a way to stop the Eagles though. 

[billsfan714]

1 minute ago, sunshynman said:

The D talent and playoff play is a big issue. And they recognized that and pushed to change it this year. But the 13 seconds problem was McD letting Frazier call the play and not overruling him. I think by playoff time this year, the D will be what is needed to get past KC, Ravens, etc. We better have a way to stop the Eagles though. 

I dont absolve McD for 13 seconds, hes the head coach, the buck stop with him.  We have never truly got answers on that fiasco other than "miscommunication" for the KO and execution.     It was just terrible from the KO to the D.   

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I’d rather have lost a game, like Baltimore last year, in exchange for a Super Bowl title 13 seconds year. Payton has proven that he can win the big one. McDermott has not proven that.

 

Fair or not, McDermott's legacy is 13 seconds unless he wins it all with Josh.  It remains one of the most epic collapses in recent NFL history.  

 

And I don't care if one of the assistants botched something...it's on the HC to be prepared and McD is maybe a hair faster on the trigger than Jauron in-game (RIP).

 

[billsfan714]

I remember watching Sean Payton on Fox sports after the 13 second game explaining how the Bills botched the D with playing outside contain (guarding the sidelines) prevent D.   There was no reason to worry about the sidelines with the chiefs having 2 timeouts.  As I said before was coaching malpractice. 

Edited 9 hours ago by billsfan714

[SoTier]

5 hours ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

Payton's ahead of him because of getting a rookie QB to the playoffs or whatever.  But he was absolutely outcoached in the playoffs against buffalo to an almost embarassing degree.  That was the popular "Upset alert" and they promptly got stomped.  

 

To me - PFF is supposed to be the "analytics" group, and this article didn't offer much of anything to back it up.  

 

I totally agree.   This article reminded me of the articles/lists that PFF would put out in its early days where its "analytics" would "prove" that some mediocre QB who was only starting because the team didn't have anybody better on the roster was actually a top five QB.   I don't know what magical "analytics" the statboys are using but it smells a lot more like subjective opinion than numbers to me.

 

5 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Do you believe that Sean McDermott is a better head coach than Sean Payton? If so, we STRONGLY disagree. Payton has a Super Bowl and would have 2 without the worst call in NFL History. He changed the momentum of the Super Bowl with a surprise onside kick. He went to Denver with a bottom 10 roster and went to the playoffs. Sean Payton is a way better coach than Sean McDermott. 

 

Career-wise, Payton has certainly gotten good mileage out of his single SB appearance, but this is 2025 not 2009, and the NFL is a different league today than it was.   Certainly McDermott was the better coach than Payton in last year's playoffs.  

 

3 hours ago, BigAl2526 said:

People keep giving Stefanski a pass for the train wreck that is Cleveland.  Yeah, they have and idiot GM, but without evidence on the field you can't justify ranking Stephanski with the best coaches in the league.  I question Tomlin's ranking as well.  Yes, he's had success over a long tenure, but the last several years, the Steelers have tended toward mediocrity.  I don't like the Jim Harbaugh  selection either.  Yeah, he's a good coach with some history before he fled the NFL for Michigan, but PFF seems to buy into the Harbaugh mystique and bluster instead of looking at recent history, because he has precious little.

 

I fail to see the relevancy of Tomlin's 2008 SB win, Payton's 2009 SB win or John Harbaugh's 2012 SB win to these coaches' ability in 2025.  

 

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think he allows Josh Allen to be exciting though. Justin Herbert for all his flaws used to be exciting. Harbaugh turned him into one of the most boring QBs in football. The Bills are a fun watch. The Chargers made me want to rake my eyes out. 

 

But if your point is so far McDermott has proved himself a turn around specialist not a championship winner, of course that is true. 

 

I think Herbert is doomed with Harbaugh as HC and Greg Roman as OC.   

 

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

The 2017 Bills were just as boring if not moreso imo. 
 

As far as allowing Josh Allen to be exciting, McD has been very clear that his ideal offense is taking the ball out of Josh’s hands much more than we have previously seen. 
 

In fairness to Harbaugh, he has Roman who has always struggled with building a modern passing offense, and absolutely dreadful WRs outside of Ladd. 
 

They went back to the WR well again this year and we’ll see if that makes any difference.

 

I also think there’s an argument to turn around a team in the modern NFL, you need buy-in equity. The chargers winning ugly into the playoffs probably went a long way in that locker room, not dissimilar to how McD was viewed after 17. He has now cemented it as his team imo.

The negative Nancy’s lol.

 

if McD wins a Super Bowl, him and Beane can stay until they die for all I care.

 

Harbaugh had Roman as his OC in San Francisco before he departed for Michigan.  Now he's hired him again.  

 

 

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Last year's offensive scheme was about making Allen's play more boring, no? I don't mean that in a bad way. Raising the floor was an admirable goal and the results spoke for themselves. I think Justin Herbert's problem is Justin Herbert. He is missing that spark of pure will that defines the top 4 QBs. That mentality in critical moments that he will make it happen all on his own if he has to. I don't think Harbaugh took that spark out of him, he just never had it to begin with. What Harbaugh did last year is make the best out of a horrid group of skill players and a QB that isn't uniquely talented enough to overcome it.

 

I disagree about Herbert.  I think he's been the victim of crappy coaching his entire career, and it's only gotten worse with the new regime.  I think what Roman wants him to do doesn't fit his skill set or his temperament.  Harbaugh hardly made "the best out of a horrid group of skill players and a QB that isn't uniquely talented enough to overcome it"; he created the situation by forcing Herbert into his system rather than modifying his system to fit his QB.   

 

BTW, if you think I dislike Harbaugh and Roman, I plead no contest.

 

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

What good QBs has he taken the ball out of their hands though?

 

Herbert is the only one, and seeing as Herby is addicted to playoff meltdowns, it doesn’t seem like a bad strategy.

 

Roman was the OC in Baltimore from 2019 through 2022.  He failed to develop Lamar Jackson as a passer.  In 2 seasons under Todd Monken, Lamar has become an infinitely better QB as demonstrated by his superlative stats in 2024.  

 

1 hour ago, sunshynman said:

You are so sure he can't. But it's just that he hasn't yet. How long did it take Reid?

 

Teacher!  🖐️  Teacher!  🖐️ I know!!!  🖐️ I know!!!  🖐️   It took Andy Reid only 6 seasons to make the Super Bowl, 14 more seasons to actually win a SB!

 

1 hour ago, billsfan714 said:

Thats exactly it right there.  Im not willing to waste Josh on a coach that can't get it done, that would be a tragedy.

 

Are you buying the Bills?  I didn't realize they were for sale.

Edited 9 hours ago by SoTier

[ganesh]

18 hours ago, TheWeatherMan said:

Any coach that has JA17 as their QB should statistically be a top 5 coach.  That being said…I agree with the PFF for once. 

Any coach that has JA17 as their QB should have won multiple super bowls by now.  Instead, he has left us with 13 seconds and  failed tush-pushes to argue about

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, ganesh said:

Any coach that has JA17 as their QB should have won multiple super bowls by now.  Instead, he has left us with 13 seconds and  failed tush-pushes to argue about

 

Matt Eberflus would have won multiple Super Bowls with Allen?

[FireChans]

20 minutes ago, SoTier said:

Harbaugh had Roman as his OC in San Francisco before he departed for Michigan.  Now he's hired him again.  

Yeah the Harbo's love Roman. So I do blame them a little bit because he's their guy. 

 

20 minutes ago, SoTier said:

Roman was the OC in Baltimore from 2019 through 2022.  He failed to develop Lamar Jackson as a passer.  In 2 seasons under Todd Monken, Lamar has become an infinitely better QB as demonstrated by his superlative stats in 2024.  

I think Lamar's development as a passer is kind of overblown. 

 

2019 Lamar was still an absolute force and that remains arguably the best year of his career. A TD% of 9 is just bonkers.

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

The point was that McDermott and Pegula’s relationship is NOTHING like Payton and Benson. He did tons wrong (pill scandal, other drugs, bounty gate, has a child with a Saints cheerleader). Payton was bulletproof because of his relationship with ownership. 
 

I’m not arguing for Stefanski. I’d argue for Tomlin. He has a Super Bowl and has never had a losing season!! I don’t love his style but he’s a HOF coach. I said McDermott is like Purdy. Someone else said Dak. That’s good by me. He’s a borderline top 10 guy. He’s not bad. He has been BAD in the biggest moments which is why he doesn’t belong higher on the list. 

 

If people don't like McD's in game management, clock management, etc they will hate Tomlins.  I get he got the SB, which is great for any HC.  But if I had to win a game today, I would rather have McD than Tomlin.  Tomlin is like a long marriage where you may not fight a lot, but you also don't sleep together much anymore and its content, but boring.  

 

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

In terms of the 2nd Super Bowl, there is no call, EVER, even close to the Robey-Coleman PI. They kick a 30 yard FG as the clock expires. That wasn’t a hypothetical or a close call. Google, “what’s the worst missed call in NFL History” and see what comes up. If they make that 30 yarder (or whatever it was) they’re in the Super Bowl. They would have been playing a not so good Pats team. That game was awful. Payton’s team would have showed up.

 

I agree with you on the call no doubt, I wasn't arguing the call wasn't bad...I was saying the call doesn't mean they go on to win the SB without it.

 

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Where we disagree is that I think pretty much any average coach could have achieved what McDermott has with Josh Allen. Lots and lots of guys could have won the divisions that he’s won and the playoff games that he’s won. He has yet to win the big one and he’s had lots of chances. He’s 0-5 vs. KC & Cincy in the playoffs. His defense has been nonexistent. He’s a defensive coach!! You can’t be bad in big games and be considered good. Look at the way people trash Dak and Herbert and Lamar for their playoff performances. That’s McDermott. That’s not Sean Payton.

He’s 9-9 in the playoffs. He SHOULD be at least 10-10 or 11-9 with 2 championships. That’s better than 7-7 with no Super Bowl appearances. 

 

Im no McD apologist, so I get it and he needs to win the big one, and his seat should be warm now heading into this season.  But I do think you are greatly minimizing his impact here though and giving too much credit to Allen.  He took a team with no culture that no one wanted to play for outside Buffalo in the midst of being torn down that traded its best players and snapped a 17 year drought that much more talented teams and more experienced HC's could not do.  And people always talk about how Bengals had to help us get in, but the reality was them giving Peterman a chance to see if he had anything to offer a team looking to rebuild against the lowly Chargers kept them from getting in on their own accord.  His coaching job that year was much better than he gets credit for by some people around here.  

 

And then he and his staff took the rawest QB in the draft and developed him into someone with GOAT potential by end of his career.  

 

I also think you are overlooking a lot of Seans poor playoff track record as well.  I get it to a degree, he deserves more credibility too as someone who has won the big game, but outside the one SB run, his playoffs record isn't stellar and he didn't have Reid and Mahomes standing in his way to blame for it, or anything close to what that tandem is as a threat that McD and the rest of the AFC face year after year.  

 

Its all good - this is all subjective, so just take my commentary as a discussion and nothing more.  To be clear, I give Sean the nod now - but I am not so sure I will if McD wins the SB this year and has the better resume.  

Edited 8 hours ago by Alphadawg7

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

 

He’s 9-9 in the playoffs. He SHOULD be at least 10-10 or 11-9 with 2 championships. That’s better than 7-7 with no Super Bowl appearances. 

 

His playoff record since his Superbowl win. Over 15 years ago. And I know he got a particularly rough call in a Championship game, but it is what it is. 

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

Nutso. I doubt the players have that much faith in McD at this point.

 

I’ll ask again at 0-5.

 

Do. And at 0-5 maybe I will feel differently. But I honestly do not see it that way you do right now.

[Einstein]

3 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

So you believe our 2017 had much more talent than teams like the Falcons and Chiefs, who both made the playoffs that year in 2017....were to be easy wins?

 

The Chan Gailey Bills beat the Patriots in the prime of their dynasty. 

 

Does that mean anything in the larger picture of that season?

[Breakout Squad]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Matt Eberflus would have won multiple Super Bowls with Allen?

That’s good 👍 

[Royale with Cheese]

5 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

The Chan Gailey Bills beat the Patriots in the prime of their dynasty. 

 

Does that mean anything in the larger picture of that season?

The point you are missing is that you are discrediting McDermott’s 9 win season because he had several wins against sub par QB’s.  But he also had a subpar QB in Tyrod Taylor.  Taylor was awful and showed it with the next 7 teams he played for.  

The 2017 team was one of the worst rosters in the NFL.