Gabe Davis released

[Don Otreply]

9 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

He's brilliant but he's also a dork (different from being a nerd, which of course he is). He enjoys being a pedantic Buzz Killington about popular misconceptions and kinda publicly yucks people's (slightly and blissfully ignorant) yums. Not a great ambassador in that he doesn't inspire a ton of wonder, at least with his noisy public persona. 

 

I'll admit his first appearance on The Colbert Report (a billion years ago) is the episode when Colbert finally figured out his own character's persona. Amazing interview. 

 

Tyson would find a way to make an amazing, season-defining NFL replay seem less amazing once you realize that centrifugal force is not actually a real thing and that centripetal force, which is the actual concept, doesn't actually apply at all in this case. You see how arbitrary and pedantic that was to read? 

Well put together statement, 👍

 

Sometimes though, ya need a dork / nerd to set the record right, I reiterate “sometimes” lol, 

[BADOLBILZ]

9 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

Pro Football Reference has 2024 Bills 9th in passing yards (also 9th in rushing yards). Where are you looking?

 

And either way, being ahead of the Bills in that category doesn't exactly correlate with season success. Not a GREAT indicator imho.

 

 

 

Thank you @Doc Brown for explaining it to @Richard Noggin.

 

The FACT is that they aren't generating the yardage thru the air that they should be with one of the top 3 QB's in the NFL.

 

The rankings I gave you are all prior to removing sack yardage.   

 

Are you under the impression that the Bills receivers are why Allen is avoiding sacks?

 

Because they aren't.

 

The Bills signature passing play is Allen going thru all of his reads, not being satisfied with the choices, and then scrambling right and throwing the ball on the run about 5+ seconds after the snap.  

 

Being able to play off schedule like that is a blessing but it's not a great long term strategy.   And as Allen approaches 30 you want to see LESS of those plays each year.   Instead, we see MORE.   All of Allen's biggest hits taken in 2024 were on those plays.    Ravens concussion,  Texans concussion and huge hits against Rams and Lions.   

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

As they should. Lost yardage due to sacks IS part of the passing game yardage. You can’t factor that out and call yourself honest.

 

I hate that they don't take it out of the individual's stat line anywhere, or ever account for it in fantasy football (i'm sure some do, just not common in this circle).  Completion percentage - doesn't factor in the plays where you didn't complete the ball, and got sacked.  Yards passing or rushing (they include it in rushing stats in college) don't factor it in either.  

 

Strouds stats for example last year compared to a sack reduced yardage total, and including it as an "incompletion".  

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

As they should. Lost yardage due to sacks IS part of the passing game yardage. You can’t factor that out and call yourself honest.

 

 

I didn't factor it out.    I used NFL offensive stats rankings because the point is the they are LITERALLY passing for less yardage than they had been in prior years,  relative to the rest of the league.

 

How much one thinks that reflects on the WR corps is one thing........there are plenty of other stats/metrics that indicate the Bills WR corps was/is not good.....they've been re-hashed many times.   Apparently the subject of passing for less yardage has struck a nerve with a few of you though.  

 

But Bills fans who watch the team every week giving the WR corps.......of all groups.........credit for Allen avoiding sacks would be the dumbest take of a long offseason of them.    The one group that never even pass blocks.   I hope you guys are just arguing for the sake of arguing because it's the height of foolishness.😂

Edited 5 hours ago by BADOLBILZ

[billsfan89]

Just now, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Thank you @Doc Brown for explaining it to @Richard Noggin.

 

The FACT is that they aren't generating the yardage thru the air that they should be with one of the top 3 QB's in the NFL.

 

The rankings I gave you are all prior to removing sack yardage.   

 

Are you under the impression that the Bills receivers are why Allen is avoiding sacks?

 

Because they aren't.

 

The Bills signature passing play is Allen going thru all of his reads, not being satisfied with the choices, and then scrambling right and throwing the ball on the run about 5+ seconds after the snap.  

 

Being able to play off schedule like that is a blessing but it's not a great long term strategy.   And as Allen approaches 30 you want to see LESS of those plays each year.   Instead, we see MORE.   All of Allen's biggest hits taken in 2024 were on those plays.    Ravens concussion,  Texans concussion and huge hits against Rams and Lions.   

 

Not disagreeing with you but the Bills passing yards stats are likely deflated by the fact that the Bills were very good at grinding out the clock on the ground and the Bills having a dominant at times ground attack is something that keeps Josh healthy. I don't disagree that I would have liked for the Bills to do something better than Palmer/Moore to replace Cooper/Hollins at WR. But I'm also not gonna say that the Bills "liking what they have" at WR is a bad sign. If they feel Kincaid/Coleman are ready to develop more and that Palmer really is a very good fit and that a health Samuel will add some pop then perhaps that a better sign than we as fans from the outside think? There's also the idea that an in-season acquisition like Cooper is on the table and easier to fit cap wise. 

[Doc Brown]

3 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Not disagreeing with you but the Bills passing yards stats are likely deflated by the fact that the Bills were very good at grinding out the clock on the ground and the Bills having a dominant at times ground attack is something that keeps Josh healthy. I don't disagree that I would have liked for the Bills to do something better than Palmer/Moore to replace Cooper/Hollins at WR. But I'm also not gonna say that the Bills "liking what they have" at WR is a bad sign. If they feel Kincaid/Coleman are ready to develop more and that Palmer really is a very good fit and that a health Samuel will add some pop then perhaps that a better sign than we as fans from the outside think? There's also the idea that an in-season acquisition like Cooper is on the table and easier to fit cap wise. 

How sustainable is that though?  The problems is when the run game isn't rolling and we get far behind against a good defense we get stat lines from Allen of 9 of 30 for 131 yards or 16 of 29 for 180 yards.  Guys just aren't getting open.  Josh starts to press and some of his bad tendencies come back.  People point to the loss of Shakir but that shows how little talent/depth we had at the position.  I think you're correct and we may be WR hunting again during the season.

5 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

As they should. Lost yardage due to sacks IS part of the passing game yardage. You can’t factor that out and call yourself honest.

I know it is.  Congratulations.  You suck less than we thought because our QB has become Houdini at avoiding negative plays because our WR's can't get open.

[billsfan89]

2 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

How sustainable is that though?  The problems is when the run game isn't rolling and we get far behind against a good defense we get stat lines from Allen of 9 of 30 for 131 yards or 16 of 29 for 180 yards.  Guys just aren't getting open.  Josh starts to press and some of his bad tendencies come back.  People point to the loss of Shakir but that shows how little talent/depth we had at the position.  I think you're correct and we may be WR hunting again during the season.

 

I am not disagreeing totally but I also think having a top 9 passing attack in terms of raw yards is pretty good when considering the context of the Bills having a lot of games where they were up big and very successfully grinding out the clock with a good running game means that passing yards are likely to be deflated a bit. I do think however had the team not made the addition of Cooper it would have struggled more at times offensively.

 

I know Cooper's output in terms of raw numbers wasn't great but his presence on the outside completely changed how defenses approached the offense. KC for example played the Bills defensively where they "dared" the Bills to beat them 1v1 on the outside and Cooper had those two long catches on the sidelines and KC stopped doing that and it opened up more underneath. And unless Palmer is the guy they think as far as winning 1 v 1 matchups on the outside and/or Keon takes that next step to being more consistent I do think there's gonna be a move made at WR to have that consistent (or at least more than respectable) 1 v 1 guy on the outside. 

I think the Bills front office is very prudent and let's be honest the pickings at WR in terms of a true outside boundary difference maker both in the draft and in free agency/trades were weaker. DK was the big one and I think the Bills front office decided that the cap costs and the draft cost was just too steep the rest were either guys who were more slot WR's or just weren't really available or cost too much (like D.Adams). The draft also didn't have a lot of true outside WR's and the value/need on defense made more sense. 

 

Overall I think them going with the approach of stress testing the WR's early and then seeing if they need to do a in season WR move makes the most sense as it is easier to fit the cap numbers once the big bonuses have been paid as have 5-6 weeks of salary by the trading team. 

[Doc Brown]

38 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

I think the Bills front office is very prudent and let's be honest the pickings at WR in terms of a true outside boundary difference maker both in the draft and in free agency/trades were weaker. DK was the big one and I think the Bills front office decided that the cap costs and the draft cost was just too steep the rest were either guys who were more slot WR's or just weren't really available or cost too much (like D.Adams). The draft also didn't have a lot of true outside WR's and the value/need on defense made more sense. 

 

Overall I think them going with the approach of stress testing the WR's early and then seeing if they need to do a in season WR move makes the most sense as it is easier to fit the cap numbers once the big bonuses have been paid as have 5-6 weeks of salary by the trading team. 

That can't be the plan though because there's no guarantee one would be available.  I would've absolutely traded a 2nd and a 5th for DK Metcalf and paid him the same amount.  A strong offensive line, a strong running game, and then allowing Coleman to develop as a WR2 with Shakir/Kincaid as slot threats. Talk about opening up an offense.  We saw what an aging Amari Cooper did like you mentioned in the Chiefs game.  There's a reason Beane went on WGR to chastise the hosts about WR's.  He wanted to change the narrative because he's failed at drafting day 1 or 2 WR talent starting in 2021 imo.  Now we have to pay WR's more than they're worth in free agency (Samuel, Palmer) or hope Elijah Moore can somehow break out in year 5.  Beane does a lot of things right.  WR seems to be his blind spot though imo..

[ColoradoBills]

On 5/14/2025 at 10:18 AM, Captain Caveman said:

Is this still the Gabe Davis thread?

 

Hard to tell.  These threads always revert back to the same old story.

 

The way I see it, Gabe Davis, if he was to return to the Bills this season, wouldn't move the needle forward regarding the offense.

[That's No Moon]

10 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Hard to tell.  These threads always revert back to the same old story.

 

The way I see it, Gabe Davis, if he was to return to the Bills this season, wouldn't move the needle forward regarding the offense.

Is he the most inconsequential player with the best Bills highlight tape of all time? Could be.

[ColoradoBills]

3 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

Is he the most inconsequential player with the best Bills highlight tape of all time? Could be.

 

That is a very good description of his career in Buffalo.

 

I was a big Gabe fan, and I still like him, but he just never could get the consistency he needed to be a weapon.

[JohnNord]

2 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

Is he the most inconsequential player with the best Bills highlight tape of all time? Could be.

Inconsistent is right… maybe the best example of “what could have been?”

Best example of Gabe Davis is Buffalo is Week 7 versus the New York Jets in 2022.  

Josh tears his UCL but still delivered what should have been one of the greatest Hail Mary passes ever to set up a game tying FG.  While Gabe beat Sauce Gardiner, he failed tk make the catch.  

 

There were times when he would make absolutely HUGE catches - he was incredible at the end of the first half against Indy in the playoffs in 2021.  But then he’d just make some killer drops or fail to beat press coverage.  
 

Someone once said the playoff game against KC was the worst thing to happen to him.  #1 they lost!  #2 it raised his ceiling way higher than it should have been.  
 

Now it seems like injuries are an issue - as they had been at times in Buffalo as well.  

[billsfan89]

1 hour ago, Doc Brown said:

That can't be the plan though because there's no guarantee one would be available.  I would've absolutely traded a 2nd and a 5th for DK Metcalf and paid him the same amount.  A strong offensive line, a strong running game, and then allowing Coleman to develop as a WR2 with Shakir/Kincaid as slot threats. Talk about opening up an offense.  We saw what an aging Amari Cooper did like you mentioned in the Chiefs game.  There's a reason Beane went on WGR to chastise the hosts about WR's.  He wanted to change the narrative because he's failed at drafting day 1 or 2 WR talent starting in 2021 imo.  Now we have to pay WR's more than they're worth in free agency (Samuel, Palmer) or hope Elijah Moore can somehow break out in year 5.  Beane does a lot of things right.  WR seems to be his blind spot though imo..

 

I don't think the plan is necessarily to go into the season needing a in-season WR trade. I think they like Palmer and Keon as the outside WR's with a projected bounce back from Kincaid in year 3. I think the in-season WR trade is the "Plan B" Yes would I have liked the Bills to trade for DK and give him the contract but then you also have the argument that the defense has been the larger issue for playoff failures the past 5 years so if you trade a 2nd and a 5th for DK that's less defensive prospects and less cap space that you can allocate to fix the defense up. So there's no real "right" answer as to what is the best approach because either way there's some way you can critique moves. 

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, That's No Moon said:

Is he the most inconsequential player with the best Bills highlight tape of all time? Could be.

Nope. Roland Hooks has him beat with these two catches.

 

[NoSaint]

7 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Thank you @Doc Brown for explaining it to @Richard Noggin.

 

The FACT is that they aren't generating the yardage thru the air that they should be with one of the top 3 QB's in the NFL.

 

The rankings I gave you are all prior to removing sack yardage.   

 

Are you under the impression that the Bills receivers are why Allen is avoiding sacks?

 

Because they aren't.

 

The Bills signature passing play is Allen going thru all of his reads, not being satisfied with the choices, and then scrambling right and throwing the ball on the run about 5+ seconds after the snap.  

 

Being able to play off schedule like that is a blessing but it's not a great long term strategy.   And as Allen approaches 30 you want to see LESS of those plays each year.   Instead, we see MORE.   All of Allen's biggest hits taken in 2024 were on those plays.    Ravens concussion,  Texans concussion and huge hits against Rams and Lions.   

my business case for WR investment better than I could type it

[Malazan]

7 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Being able to play off schedule like that is a blessing but it's not a great long term strategy.   And as Allen approaches 30 you want to see LESS of those plays each year.   Instead, we see MORE.   All of Allen's biggest hits taken in 2024 were on those plays.    Ravens concussion,  Texans concussion and huge hits against Rams and Lions.   

 

Plays >3 Seconds(data from PFF’s distribution data and PFR):

2024: ~18.9% (116/614) of dropbacks over 3 seconds / 2.68 seconds average time to throw / 14 Sacks / 37 QB Hits / 42 Scrambles

2023: ~22% (140/636) of dropbacks over 3 seconds / 2.75 seconds average time to throw / 24 sacks / 77 QB Hits /  48 Scrambles

2022: ~23% (141/614) of dropbacks over 3 seconds / 2.80 seconds average time to throw / 33 sacks / 92 QB Hits / 44 Scrambles

2021: ~24% (151/630) of dropbacks over 3 seconds / 2.83 seconds average time to throw / 26 sacks / 76 QB Hits / 40 Scrambles

2020: ~21% (126/600) of dropbacks over 3 seconds / 2.78 seconds average time to throw / 26 sacks / 67 QB Hits / 35 Scrambles

2019: ~25% (119/477) of dropbacks over 3 seconds / 2.85 seconds average time to throw / 38 sacks / 85 QB Hits / 38 Scrambles

2018: ~27% (108/400) of dropbacks over 3 seconds / 2.90 seconds average time to throw / 29 sacks / 78 QB Hits / 35 Scrambles

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, JohnNord said:

Inconsistent is right… maybe the best example of “what could have been?”

Best example of Gabe Davis is Buffalo is Week 7 versus the New York Jets in 2022.  

Josh tears his UCL but still delivered what should have been one of the greatest Hail Mary passes ever to set up a game tying FG.  While Gabe beat Sauce Gardiner, he failed tk make the catch.  

 

There were times when he would make absolutely HUGE catches - he was incredible at the end of the first half against Indy in the playoffs in 2021.  But then he’d just make some killer drops or fail to beat press coverage.  
 

Someone once said the playoff game against KC was the worst thing to happen to him.  #1 they lost!  #2 it raised his ceiling way higher than it should have been.  
 

Now it seems like injuries are an issue - as they had been at times in Buffalo as well.  

frankly it was big game Josh, and Gabe just happened to be where some of those balls landed.