Ben Johnson?? Ben Johnson?? LOL

[Royale with Cheese]

16 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

I never hailed Ben Johnson as the savior, but to think in two weeks we can say what he might have done here is a bit much. They still have a meddling QB, not the reigning MVP. It's a weird victory lap 8 months later is all, I mean, are we going to celebrate the failure of every new HC to validate our regime? I'm really happy with the way the season has started. Hopefully we can get actual validation in the form of a deeper playoff run vs a rookie head coaches 0-2 record. 

 

The limelight is going to be on him.  He was the hottest Coordinator out there and he has the #1 overall QB plus other good talent.

The offense actually looks worse this year with Caleb in his 2nd year.

Very early yes but he was the "walk on water" Coordinator.  Certainly not a finished product but it couldn't have started any worse IMO.

Caleb looks lost.

[Billsfanatic8989]

How many HC's have been successful in that organization? What about QB's? How many GM's do they recycle? 

 

He went to a dumpster fire and it will take awhile before any success is possible. 

[Billsfanatic8989]

14 hours ago, Big Turk said:

Dude reminds me a lot of Josh McDaniel from what I've heard...his attitude, the rumors of how he thinks he is smarter than everyone and the way he is a D-Bag to everyone, etc...

 

 

Josh McDaniels was a failure of a HC in two different places. And terrible as an OC with the Rams. He was a successful OC with the greatest QB of all time. Brady got him HC jobs. 

 

Johnson definitely made a difference in Detroit. He was a huge influence. Being a HC is way different though. 

 

The jury is still out.

 

 

[DrDawkinstein]

6 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

The limelight is going to be on him.  He was the hottest Coordinator out there and he has the #1 overall QB plus other good talent.

The offense actually looks worse this year with Caleb in his 2nd year.

Very early yes but he was the "walk on water" Coordinator.  Certainly not a finished product but it couldn't have started any worse IMO.

Caleb looks lost.

 

If they end up with a top-10 pick, I could see Johnson pushing to move on from Caleb as early as next year. Especially if they bring in a new GM. Then Caleb isnt tied to either of them, and neither of them will want their HC/GM careers tied to a QB they didnt even pick.

[Billsfanatic8989]

13 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

Takes someone with pretty low integrity to do something like that. Those teams dodged a bullet.

Yup.

 

Think of all the staff members who moved families to go work with McDaniels. And he backs out. That would have a negative impact on their lives. 

 

I know why he got another job (Tom Brady). But he should not have been allowed by the league to even interview for a job again. Little rat. 

[QCity]

8 minutes ago, Billsfanatic8989 said:

No. No it isn't enough at all. Not even a little bit. 

 

SB win or bust. That sounds harsh. But this season can only be successful if the Bills win it all. It's not 2020 anymore. Winning the division and one playoff game or so isn't sufficient. 

 

In the Kelly years the bar was the Superbowl every year after the first one. That was the also the bar for the Patriots for way longer than a decade. It's been like that for the Chiefs for 5-6 years now.

 

But for our traumatized fanbase that is scarred from the drought? Don't worry Josh has 20 more years left.

 

[Royale with Cheese]

6 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

If they end up with a top-10 pick, I could see Johnson pushing to move on from Caleb as early as next year. Especially if they bring in a new GM. Then Caleb isnt tied to either of them, and neither of them will want their HC/GM careers tied to a QB they didnt even pick.

 

Yep.  Johnson isn't going to want to have his career tied to Caleb.  

[947]

I have a feeling Ben Johnson will turn Tyson Bagent into a solid QB in his system, like he did with Goff.

 

Caleb Williams has all the physical tools but doesn't seem to have a clue about what he's seeing defensively until it's too late- he processes the field like EJ Manuel. You can't "coach up" a player's brain processing speed. He got away with going off-script & just running around until somebody opens up in college, and he can still do that occasionally in the NFL, but pro QBs need to be on schedule and he can't do it consistently. Johnson is visibly annoyed every time Caleb show this is who he is, which has been pretty often.

 

I bet the Bears trade Caleb after this year. I think Johnson was behind them paying Bagent $10M for 2 years, to be his 1B plan.

[T master]

On 12/15/2024 at 7:31 PM, BringBackFergy said:

The cool name on TBD. The hottest name in NFL circles. Annointed head coach for the disgruntled masses. 
 

Here’s what he has:

Best OL in the league. 
Best RB duo in the league. 
Top 5 TE in the league. 
Top 5 QB in the league. 
Top Slot WR in the league. 
 

Couldn’t beat a Bills D without starting safeties, a CB and a gimpy LB. 
 

Cool name, though. 

And this is the guy that the McD haters would have come in and take over the team because (Whinny mafia fans) McD can't win the big game WAHHH . 

 

He couldn't beat the Bills as a coordinator with all those weapons in Detroit and if Pegula were to listen to the haters and fired who's hear now to get him or someone like him the Bills would be closer to where the Bears are than where the Bills are .

 

But maybe it's just me ...

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

I think Caleb can be good but its really tough to have a second year QB learn a completely new offense.

 

As others have said, I think he's still adjusting.

 

Also Johnson could be a great coordinator but still has to prove that he's a HC or a Leader of Men.  Those are two different skill sets.

 

Many times Coordinators fail as HC's for just that reason.

[chongli]

18 hours ago, BringBackFergy said:

He would be able to save the Bills from the clutches of a coach who has made the playoffs 6 of last 7 years. 

 

That's 7 out of the 8 years sir! 👍🏻

Edited September 16 by chongli

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, T master said:

And this is the guy that the McD haters would have come in and take over the team because (Whinny mafia fans) McD can't win the big game WAHHH . 

 

He couldn't beat the Bills as a coordinator with all those weapons in Detroit and if Pegula were to listen to the haters and fired who's hear now to get him or someone like him the Bills would be closer to where the Bears are than where the Bills are .

 

But maybe it's just me ...

It's definitely just you

[Alphadawg7]

Its 2 games in - way too early to make any proclamations on him.  But here are some things I will say -- More often than not, the "hot coordinator" isn't the savior people think they are in their first HC gig.  Fans get obsessed with someone because they had a great offense/defense with great talent and then just think they will work magic when they take over a much lesser roster as a first time HC.  Sure it can happen, but it mostly doesn't.  Look at what the Lions did this weekend, they didn't need Ben Johnson to do it.  

 

But - its also not fair to a first time HC to condemn their new tenure after 2 games either, just like it would be silly to crown them if they over achieve early (look at Daboll in NY).  

 

Now - generalizations aside, one thing that is standing out in the new Ben Johnson era is he is not coming off well.  That is not usually a good sign of things to come if their are rumblings this early about things like how he is in the locker room and how he comes across in the media.  Sometimes these guys had it so easy with top end talent they come in with inflated Egos, arrogance, and stubborness that will hurt and hamper their ability to succeeed, unite the team, get the most out of his coaches and players, etc.  Quite honestly, I think that is a major factor in what has become the Giants under Daboll.  Their success will hinge on the humbling of them through struggles and how they respond.  

 

Then there are guys like McDaniel in Miami who just don't have that leadership quality, command of a franchise personality, etc and honestly are probably never going to succeed as a HC IMHO, same with a guy like McDaniels.  

 

Its too early to know where Ben Johnson will fall, but its why guys like McDermott exceeded expectations and found immediate success out the gate and others don't.  McD has a Team General like leadership quality to him that commands respect and has the guys united and getting the most of them.  He cares about his coaches, plaers, etc and listens to them and is genuine which makes him a players coach while still commanding the same discipline he expects.  He has always had that, its natural for him, its why his early success started his first season when we were supposed to be a bottom feeder.  He came in humble, but in command.  When guys come in arrogant without that aura that leads and commands respect, its often a rough go of it.  

 

We will see how it goes for Ben, its early, but it has signs that I would say are in the red flag category.  

[JGMcD2]

5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Its 2 games in - way too early to make any proclamations on him.  But here are some things I will say -- More often than not, the "hot coordinator" isn't the savior people think they are in their first HC gig.  Fans get obsessed with someone because they had a great offense/defense with great talent and then just think they will work magic when they take over a much lesser roster as a first time HC.  Sure it can happen, but it mostly doesn't.  Look at what the Lions did this weekend, they didn't need Ben Johnson to do it.  

 

But - its also not fair to a first time HC to condemn their new tenure after 2 games either, just like it would be silly to crown them if they over achieve early (look at Daboll in NY).  

 

Now - generalizations aside, one thing that is standing out in the new Ben Johnson era is he is not coming off well.  That is not usually a good sign of things to come if their are rumblings this early about things like how he is in the locker room and how he comes across in the media.  Sometimes these guys had it so easy with top end talent they come in with inflated Egos, arrogance, and stubborness that will hurt and hamper their ability to succeeed, unite the team, get the most out of his coaches and players, etc.  Quite honestly, I think that is a major factor in what has become the Giants under Daboll.  Their success will hinge on the humbling of them through struggles and how they respond.  

 

Then there are guys like McDaniel in Miami who just don't have that leadership quality, command of a franchise personality, etc and honestly are probably never going to succeed as a HC IMHO, same with a guy like McDaniels.  

 

Its too early to know where Ben Johnson will fall, but its why guys like McDermott exceeded expectations and found immediate success out the gate and others don't.  McD has a Team General like leadership quality to him that commands respect and has the guys united and getting the most of them.  He cares about his coaches, plaers, etc and listens to them and is genuine which makes him a players coach while still commanding the same discipline he expects.  He has always had that, its natural for him, its why his early success started his first season when we were supposed to be a bottom feeder.  He came in humble, but in command.  When guys come in arrogant without that aura that leads and commands respect, its often a rough go of it.  

 

We will see how it goes for Ben, its early, but it has signs that I would say are in the red flag category.  

Nice post, I agree with all of it. Very well said, and something folks should pin when it comes to assessing viable Head Coach candidates. 

[GoBills808]

7 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Its 2 games in - way too early to make any proclamations on him.  But here are some things I will say -- More often than not, the "hot coordinator" isn't the savior people think they are in their first HC gig.  Fans get obsessed with someone because they had a great offense/defense with great talent and then just think they will work magic when they take over a much lesser roster as a first time HC.  Sure it can happen, but it mostly doesn't.  Look at what the Lions did this weekend, they didn't need Ben Johnson to do it.  

 

But - its also not fair to a first time HC to condemn their new tenure after 2 games either, just like it would be silly to crown them if they over achieve early (look at Daboll in NY).  

 

Now - generalizations aside, one thing that is standing out in the new Ben Johnson era is he is not coming off well.  That is not usually a good sign of things to come if their are rumblings this early about things like how he is in the locker room and how he comes across in the media.  Sometimes these guys had it so easy with top end talent they come in with inflated Egos, arrogance, and stubborness that will hurt and hamper their ability to succeeed, unite the team, get the most out of his coaches and players, etc.  Quite honestly, I think that is a major factor in what has become the Giants under Daboll.  Their success will hinge on the humbling of them through struggles and how they respond.  

 

Then there are guys like McDaniel in Miami who just don't have that leadership quality, command of a franchise personality, etc and honestly are probably never going to succeed as a HC IMHO, same with a guy like McDaniels.  

 

Its too early to know where Ben Johnson will fall, but its why guys like McDermott exceeded expectations and found immediate success out the gate and others don't.  McD has a Team General like leadership quality to him that commands respect and has the guys united and getting the most of them.  He cares about his coaches, plaers, etc and listens to them and is genuine which makes him a players coach while still commanding the same discipline he expects.  He has always had that, its natural for him, its why his early success started his first season when we were supposed to be a bottom feeder.  He came in humble, but in command.  When guys come in arrogant without that aura that leads and commands respect, its often a rough go of it.  

 

We will see how it goes for Ben, its early, but it has signs that I would say are in the red flag category.  

rookie HC comes in and tries to go .500 w previous regime's leftovers...very well worn path

 

it's like people have literally zero memory as if mcdermott wasnt 25-23 through his first 3yrs here

[Alphadawg7]

6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

rookie HC comes in and tries to go .500 w previous regime's leftovers...very well worn path

 

it's like people have literally zero memory as if mcdermott wasnt 25-23 through his first 3yrs here

 

True, but also lets keep in mind they both came into very different situations, so expectations are naturally higher for Ben Johnson than McD going into their first years as a HC. 

 

25-23 McD's first 3 years was an over achievement and success as it was a team being torn down to the bones and rebuilt slowly through the draft with a new GM.  Ben Johnson took over what was seen as an underachieving team last year that was expected to compete for the playoffs and a divisional title this season under Ben. 

 

Bears have a loaded offense, 2nd year QB that was the #1 overall pick, and an improving OL and defense.  So expectations are going to naturally be higher for Ben where as McD having a winning season with a bottom tier roster that traded away 3 of its then best young players in Watkins, Dareus, and Darby to start the season and mid season was a major success as it significantly exceeded all expectations.  

 

So the barometer of what is a successful start to each of their tenures is different, and Ben starting 0-2 is going to face more concerns and scruitiny, especially with all the premature build up he got because a loaded offense he was an OC of elevated his lore before ever being an actual HC.  

[GunnerBill]

33 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Its 2 games in - way too early to make any proclamations on him.  But here are some things I will say -- More often than not, the "hot coordinator" isn't the savior people think they are in their first HC gig.  Fans get obsessed with someone because they had a great offense/defense with great talent and then just think they will work magic when they take over a much lesser roster as a first time HC.  Sure it can happen, but it mostly doesn't.  Look at what the Lions did this weekend, they didn't need Ben Johnson to do it.  

 

But - its also not fair to a first time HC to condemn their new tenure after 2 games either, just like it would be silly to crown them if they over achieve early (look at Daboll in NY).  

 

Now - generalizations aside, one thing that is standing out in the new Ben Johnson era is he is not coming off well.  That is not usually a good sign of things to come if their are rumblings this early about things like how he is in the locker room and how he comes across in the media.  Sometimes these guys had it so easy with top end talent they come in with inflated Egos, arrogance, and stubborness that will hurt and hamper their ability to succeeed, unite the team, get the most out of his coaches and players, etc.  Quite honestly, I think that is a major factor in what has become the Giants under Daboll.  Their success will hinge on the humbling of them through struggles and how they respond.  

 

Then there are guys like McDaniel in Miami who just don't have that leadership quality, command of a franchise personality, etc and honestly are probably never going to succeed as a HC IMHO, same with a guy like McDaniels.  

 

Its too early to know where Ben Johnson will fall, but its why guys like McDermott exceeded expectations and found immediate success out the gate and others don't.  McD has a Team General like leadership quality to him that commands respect and has the guys united and getting the most of them.  He cares about his coaches, plaers, etc and listens to them and is genuine which makes him a players coach while still commanding the same discipline he expects.  He has always had that, its natural for him, its why his early success started his first season when we were supposed to be a bottom feeder.  He came in humble, but in command.  When guys come in arrogant without that aura that leads and commands respect, its often a rough go of it.  

 

We will see how it goes for Ben, its early, but it has signs that I would say are in the red flag category.  

 

Yea the single most important ability a head coach needs is leadership. It matters more than Xs and Os. 

 

I think his media management is a red flag. But I haven't read / heard the locker room  stuff. If that is bad too I think his chabces of being a success reduce significantly. No matter how good of a play caller her is.

 

It is too early to say of course. And I think Poles and Caleb are partly responsible for the slow start in different ways. But as I said yesterday holding the team together if this season goes sideways will be a significant test for him. 

Edited September 16 by GunnerBill

[GoBills808]

8 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

True, but also lets keep in mind they both came into very different situations, so expectations are naturally higher for Ben Johnson than McD going into their first years as a HC. 

 

25-23 McD's first 3 years was an over achievement and success as it was a team being torn down to the bones and rebuilt slowly through the draft with a new GM.  Ben Johnson took over what was seen as an underachieving team last year that was expected to compete for the playoffs and a divisional title this season under Ben. 

 

Bears have a loaded offense, 2nd year QB that was the #1 overall pick, and an improving OL and defense.  So expectations are going to naturally be higher for Ben where as McD having a winning season with a bottom tier roster that traded away 3 of its then best young players in Watkins, Dareus, and Darby to start the season and mid season was a major success as it significantly exceeded all expectations.  

 

So the barometer of what is a successful start to each of their tenures is different, and Ben starting 0-2 is going to face more concerns and scruitiny, especially with all the premature build up he got because a loaded offense he was an OC of elevated his lore before ever being an actual HC.  

i like to give a guy a couple drafts plus his own QB or a legit holdover (like Herbert, not necessarily Williams) before I make too many judgements as to his future prospects as hc

[FireChans]

18 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Yeah, it's the coach that has been there for all of 9 months

 

There's something fun about watching teams fail to pair HC/GM/QBs together and then be surprised everyone isn't on the same page. 

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

True, but also lets keep in mind they both came into very different situations, so expectations are naturally higher for Ben Johnson than McD going into their first years as a HC. 

 

25-23 McD's first 3 years was an over achievement and success as it was a team being torn down to the bones and rebuilt slowly through the draft with a new GM.  Ben Johnson took over what was seen as an underachieving team last year that was expected to compete for the playoffs and a divisional title this season under Ben. 

 

Bears have a loaded offense, 2nd year QB that was the #1 overall pick, and an improving OL and defense.  So expectations are going to naturally be higher for Ben where as McD having a winning season with a bottom tier roster that traded away 3 of its then best young players in Watkins, Dareus, and Darby to start the season and mid season was a major success as it significantly exceeded all expectations.  

 

So the barometer of what is a successful start to each of their tenures is different, and Ben starting 0-2 is going to face more concerns and scruitiny, especially with all the premature build up he got because a loaded offense he was an OC of elevated his lore before ever being an actual HC.  

 

I dont think they were as different as you're making them out to be, considering the below.

 

16 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Yeah, it's the coach that has been there for all of 9 months

 

 

People seem to be forgetting that the Bears are the Bears, and have been really Bearing it up the last 3-5 years especially.

 

It was always a 50/50 shot with Johnson on his own. We'll see.

 

 

Just now, FireChans said:

There's something fun about watching teams fail to pair HC/GM/QBs together and then be surprised everyone isn't on the same page. 

 

They have to move on from Poles. And really, that's only going to do so much.

 

They REALLY have to move on from the McCaskeys. Word is they are more likely to sell now that Virginia passed.