WotAGuy Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 29 minutes ago, Nephilim17 said: "And yeah, I do wish his drop rate was better. But if you can't see what he brings to the table then you just wanna crack jokes and be mad," Joe says. Isn’t that the purpose of the internet? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 29 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: If Adam Henry can defy gravity with this cast of high rpm drain-circlers he should some HC interviews. The more likely result is a pink slip. McDermott doesnt roll that way. But to be a tad less disappointed in the draft etc in regard to WR room , Henry and Brady have their work cut out for them. But would consider Brady had input on the draft and what he needs in FA ? Is he overconfident like Dorsey ? Or a fox in the Hen House ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 4 minutes ago, NewEra said: It’s not really a check book though. It’s a salary cap thing. Trading him this year would be one of the dumbest moves in team history as we just rewrote his contract. We would’ve had less dead cap if we just kept it as it was. So trading him, we’d have to restructure someone else to free up 16M and kick another 16M down the road. Just doesn’t make sense. It’s definitely a challenge and I’m guessing next year will be less of one, but as I mentioned earlier, if they’re gonna pay him big money then the OC better use him that way. It makes little to no sense as a safety valve or protection blanket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 51 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: That's funny. I forgot about Claypool. I've already written him off in my head, and OTAs haven't started yet! Okay, so it's one more guy with 873 yards as his best season. Add him to the list someone presented to me in February, and I still would have been scratching my head. Chase had his first 2 seasons go over 850 yards...with a broken Big Ben at QB and as the WR3 on those teams. Its nothing to sneeze at. Talent is not the question, he has the physical talent to be an elite WR in the NFL. What did him in with the Steelers was discipline, self entitlement, commitment, etc...basically immaturity. His immaturity where things like dancing on TikTok with JuJu were more of a focus than his on field IQ, development, etc got him in the dog house and they traded him and got back literally what became a first round pick for him (pick 32). But right out the gate in Chicago he was dogging it out there on plays he knew the ball wasn't coming to him which was essentially also tipping the plays to the defense and got called out publicly by everyone over it. Once again, his immature attitude sunk his ship in Chicago and found himself traded for pennies on the dollar and buried in Miami on the depth chart and not resigned. But...I woud NOT forget about Claypool. While I fully admit, its not often a guy gets his head on straight and turns that aspect of themselves around in a short window, he also is now 4 years older, on his 4th team and knowing full well if he doesn't make it work in Buffalo about the only place he can play football is going to be the CFL. If we get a motivated, mature, committed Chase Claypool...then watch out. Im not gonna hold my breath, but the upside with him is sky high if he gets his act together in Buffalo. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 9 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: Dogs eat their own sh!t so probably not too bad from their perspective. Seems a bit pedestrian to serve your elite QB though. I was unpleased especially with the draft Felt they needed a 1A or potential who could play the field. and double tip for a true Z. The opportunity was there. Felt strongly and said so here. No real money for FA this year. They eat puke too But some times they get left over filet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerBillsFan Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 1 hour ago, Shaw66 said: Yeah. If in February, someone had shown me that receivingg lineup, I would have said, "Wha ..?" I mean, really, the total absence of proven, high-end talent is bewildering. It's not like they signed a guy who had been great once but had fallen off. The BEST season any Bills receiver ever had was Samuel's 851 yards for Carolina in 2020. If Samuel, MVS, Shakir, and Hollins ALL replicate their BEST seasons, the four of them still won't have 3000 yards. As I keep saying, it's all about Brady and Allen. Scheme, play calling, and execution. But when you add in Kincaid and Cooks receiving yards we are looking at 4000 yards. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted May 14 Author Share Posted May 14 20 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said: IMO, a top 5 offense is sufficient/likely to happen as you said. Again, just to me, we need to get more stops against elite offenses. We can't win stopping a team 1x a half, or 2-4 times a game. 2 minutes ago, NewEra said: We need to get some stops….like every Super Bowl winner gets. The last 11 super bowls Sure but that's obviously not going to happen. This is where people lose me with the comparison to the Chiefs last year. Our defense is not going to hold down the Ravens and then the 49ers in the playoffs while our offense sputters. The history under this staff is what it is. Our defense underperforms every single year in the playoffs. I'm betting on that trend continuing. With that in mind, the only way we are going to win a championship is to go all out creating an offensive juggernaut capable of steamrolling teams. As I've been saying we need a lot of best case scenarios to come to fruition for that caliber of offensive output. Maybe we're not as far apart in this conversation as you think. I don't expect our offense to suck. I know it will automatically be in the top 5 to top 10 range because of our QB. I just don't think that's good enough under current management. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 4 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said: McDermott doesnt roll that way. But to be a tad less disappointed in the draft etc in regard to WR room , Henry and Brady have their work cut out for them. But would consider Brady had input on the draft and what he needs in FA ? Is he overconfident like Dorsey ? Or a fox in the Hen House ?? McD has fired 2 OC's and a bunch of other coaches have been fired or encouraged to leave..........he most certainly rolls that way. If the WR corps is a disappointment.......after his initial season with the Bills where they were a disappointment.........Henry will be easy to scapegoat. He's a journeyman coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 The Bills WRs were mediocre from about the middle of the 2022 season, including Diggs. I’ve said this before, there were games that I wondered out loud if we actually had any WRs. Watching on television makes it impossible to see what is going on down field, WRs seemed to disappear. That group needed to be blown up. Now there are some young guys, some vets, some guys that were in bad situations on bad teams. Who knows who might become available over the summer. Let’s relax and see what happens. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 9 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Chase had his first 2 seasons go over 850 yards...with a broken Big Ben at QB and as the WR3 on those teams. Its nothing to sneeze at. Talent is not the question, he has the physical talent to be an elite WR in the NFL. What did him in with the Steelers was discipline, self entitlement, commitment, etc...basically immaturity. His immaturity where things like dancing on TikTok with JuJu were more of a focus than his on field IQ, development, etc got him in the dog house and they traded him and got back literally what became a first round pick for him (pick 32). But right out the gate in Chicago he was dogging it out there on plays he knew the ball wasn't coming to him which was essentially also tipping the plays to the defense and got called out publicly by everyone over it. Once again, his immature attitude sunk his ship in Chicago and found himself traded for pennies on the dollar and buried in Miami on the depth chart and not resigned. But...I woud NOT forget about Claypool. While I fully admit, its not often a guy gets his head on straight and turns that aspect of themselves around in a short window, he also is now 4 years older, on his 4th team and knowing full well if he doesn't make it work in Buffalo about the only place he can play football is going to be the CFL. If we get a motivated, mature, committed Chase Claypool...then watch out. Im not gonna hold my breath, but the upside with him is sky high if he gets his act together in Buffalo. 9 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Chase had his first 2 seasons go over 850 yards...with a broken Big Ben at QB and as the WR3 on those teams. Its nothing to sneeze at. Talent is not the question, he has the physical talent to be an elite WR in the NFL. What did him in with the Steelers was discipline, self entitlement, commitment, etc...basically immaturity. His immaturity where things like dancing on TikTok with JuJu were more of a focus than his on field IQ, development, etc got him in the dog house and they traded him and got back literally what became a first round pick for him (pick 32). But right out the gate in Chicago he was dogging it out there on plays he knew the ball wasn't coming to him which was essentially also tipping the plays to the defense and got called out publicly by everyone over it. Once again, his immature attitude sunk his ship in Chicago and found himself traded for pennies on the dollar and buried in Miami on the depth chart and not resigned. But...I woud NOT forget about Claypool. While I fully admit, its not often a guy gets his head on straight and turns that aspect of themselves around in a short window, he also is now 4 years older, on his 4th team and knowing full well if he doesn't make it work in Buffalo about the only place he can play football is going to be the CFL. If we get a motivated, mature, committed Chase Claypool...then watch out. Im not gonna hold my breath, but the upside with him is sky high if he gets his act together in Buffalo. Its fun to have hope and dreams for our Bills. Me especially. But why couldn't he turn it around in Miami and put in the work to overcome the doghouse he was in? Is it he struggles with the playbook , and runs wrong routes as well. If he cannot succeed in Buffalo he is likely done. Both know that i expect. best place to get it together I dont have much hope here my friend Glad they got Scantling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 5 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: McD has fired 2 OC's and a bunch of other coaches have been fired or encouraged to leave..........he most certainly rolls that way. If the WR corps is a disappointment.......after his initial season with the Bills where they were a disappointment.........Henry will be easy to scapegoat. He's a journeyman coach. He had an epic fail with Dorsey. Some one had to go, and rightly so. He also promoted him wrongly , in hindsight . Josh wanted him lol But I cant see Henry being a fall guy if the WRs struggle just because WRs struggle. Unless he just never connects with them. Lets keep tabs on this 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 4 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said: He had an epic fail with Dorsey. Some one had to go, and rightly so. He also promoted him wrongly , in hindsight . Josh wanted him lol But I cant see Henry being a fall guy if the WRs struggle just because WRs struggle. Unless he just never connects with them. Lets keep tabs on this 😉 Henry has never made it more than 2 years at any of his other NFL WR jobs. This is his 5th one of those. His head is very rollable. Goats get scaped when the HC and GM get made to look bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 Just now, BADOLBILZ said: Henry has never made it more than 2 years at any of his other NFL WR jobs. This is his 5th one of those. His head is very rollable. Goats get scaped when the HC and GM get made to look bad. Well then I guess we will be watching for the scaping sooner than later Why was he desirable then ? His pro bowlers he "trained" ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dablitzkrieg Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 (edited) 2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: His drops are there for people to see but overall he catches the ball a fraction of a percent better than Gabe Davis. The issue is that he looked washed last year. When Patrick Mahomes has a passer rating of 73 when targeting you.........you probably suck. That's why he was kicking rocks in the middle of May.......not his career low-light reel. He looked good against Taron Johnson in the playoffs and in the superbowl. They needed a vertical threat. I'm satisfied with the move Edited May 15 by Dablitzkrieg 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 16 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said: He had an epic fail with Dorsey. Some one had to go, and rightly so. He also promoted him wrongly , in hindsight . Josh wanted him lol But I cant see Henry being a fall guy if the WRs struggle just because WRs struggle. Unless he just never connects with them. Lets keep tabs on this 😉 This idea that Allen picked Dorsey is insane. If the GM and Coach can't figure out who the OC should be, they should be out on the street tomorrow. As far as I can tell from McDermott and his apologists, every success of the Bills flows from his great talent, and all of the problems are someone elses fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 13 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Sure but that's obviously not going to happen. This is where people lose me with the comparison to the Chiefs last year. Our defense is not going to hold down the Ravens and then the 49ers in the playoffs while our offense sputters. The history under this staff is what it is. Our defense underperforms every single year in the playoffs. I'm betting on that trend continuing. With that in mind, the only way we are going to win a championship is to go all out creating an offensive juggernaut capable of steamrolling teams. As I've been saying we need a lot of best case scenarios to come to fruition for that caliber of offensive output. Maybe we're not as far apart in this conversation as you think. I don't expect our offense to suck. I know it will automatically be in the top 5 to top 10 range because of our QB. I just don't think that's good enough under current management. And the defense is missing several key players every year in the playoffs. Not 1 or 2 or 3 players on d. 3,4,5 key players/investments. what was McD supposed to do last year when every DE got shut down by the KC OL? When AJ Klein is out there in coverage vs Kelce playing 98% of the snaps because the teams 3 original LBs were out with injury. When Douglas was out there on one ankle while Benford and Tre were already out? Leonard floyd gets injured (38% snaps), miller injured and useless. we held top 5 O Miami to 20 and 14 points. We held KC to 17. We the top scoring offense in Dallas to 10. We CAN. I maintain that we just need to be relatively healthy, game plan better and execute. We don’t NEED a top 2 offense to win a SB. Sorry, I just don’t think that’s the reality. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 33 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Chase had his first 2 seasons go over 850 yards...with a broken Big Ben at QB and as the WR3 on those teams. Its nothing to sneeze at. Talent is not the question, he has the physical talent to be an elite WR in the NFL. What did him in with the Steelers was discipline, self entitlement, commitment, etc...basically immaturity. His immaturity where things like dancing on TikTok with JuJu were more of a focus than his on field IQ, development, etc got him in the dog house and they traded him and got back literally what became a first round pick for him (pick 32). But right out the gate in Chicago he was dogging it out there on plays he knew the ball wasn't coming to him which was essentially also tipping the plays to the defense and got called out publicly by everyone over it. Once again, his immature attitude sunk his ship in Chicago and found himself traded for pennies on the dollar and buried in Miami on the depth chart and not resigned. But...I woud NOT forget about Claypool. While I fully admit, its not often a guy gets his head on straight and turns that aspect of themselves around in a short window, he also is now 4 years older, on his 4th team and knowing full well if he doesn't make it work in Buffalo about the only place he can play football is going to be the CFL. If we get a motivated, mature, committed Chase Claypool...then watch out. Im not gonna hold my breath, but the upside with him is sky high if he gets his act together in Buffalo. Don't you think that only one of Valdez-Scantling and Claypool will make the roster? I do. And unless Claypool is spectacular this summer, I don't see the Bills betting on him instead of MSV. I'd say Claypool has better upside, for sure. Younger, probably more talented. With Valdez-Scantling, what you see is what you get. Still, I think the whole point of having one of these veterans on the roster is for stable, veteran leadership. I don't see the Bills trusting that job to Claypool. I think Valdez-Scantling is a lock. Is there room on the roster for Claypool, too? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 1 hour ago, Nephilim17 said: Watching the Joe Marino podcast on MVS, I feel better about it. He points out MVS has ZERO drops in the playoffs for his career. His 2022-2023 including playoffs EPA (expected points added per target) against man is .38, against zone is .09 — and the Bills have the highest % of man coverage in the NFL last year. We need receivers that can beat man coverage and MVS does that. Marino says he hopes MVS can open up the underneath for other guys. He's not expecting him to get a ton of targets but he's useful as he brings a vertical element we didn't have otherwise. "I think the Bills got a faster and cheaper Gabe Davis," Marino says and would rather sign MVS to to this deal than Davis to 3 years for $39 million. Before people lose their minds, Marino is not saying he's saviour or a number one, just a useful addition and an upgrade to Shavers or Isabella. "And yeah, I do wish his drop rate was better. But if you can't see what he brings to the table then you just wanna crack jokes and be mad," Joe says. p.s. he expects Kincaid to lead team in targets. Funny, because in his earlier podcast episode from today he was advocating for MVS, and then the Bills signed him. So, that was kind of cool. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 5 hours ago, FireChans said: What? They don’t need to be Puka Nacua or ASB. It would be nice if they were a Khalil Shakir. Or an MVS. Is Ray Davis gonna be the next elite RB? Is he gonna get another contract with the Bills at 29 years old? You didn't answer my question: which Day 3 WR looks likely to play somewhat like Nakua? The Bills need a speedy outside WR for 2024, not a kid who will probably take at least a season to develop -- if he ever does. They added a speedy outside veteran WR in MVS who has shown he can be clutch in the playoffs, something that Diggs and Davis haven't shown in a while. 5 hours ago, FireChans said: If you don’t want to discuss the Bills, you don’t have to go on TBD lol You aren't discussing the Bills, you are simply venting your anger -- ad nauseum -- that the Bills didn't do what you wanted them to do in the draft. There's absolutely nothing you can do about the Bills personnel decisions, so move on, dude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 31 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said: But when you add in Kincaid and Cooks receiving yards we are looking at 4000 yards. Yes, but I was assuming that all four of them had their BEST seasons. It's not likely that all four will do that. In their BEST seasons, collectively, they saw a lot more targets than they will see this season. Someone has to get 1200 or more yards, which means someone is going to have to have what, for him, will be a career year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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